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Drone Issues: A Summary of the Problem
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Kiteo Hatto
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2012-12-06 07:59:07 UTC
LOL@ sleeper runners telling mission runners to HTFU.
You CAN'T compare sleeper sites with mission sites.


There are more ships in missions at the "start" unless you are obviously jumping into a sleeper site with caps......

Sleeper ai and sleeper sites were designed to go with each other, putting sleeper ai into missions that are OLD is just stupid.



Please please please sleeper runners go do a WC or Assault that doesn't involve blitzing or a tengu now and make a video of you surviving on warp in with your turret battleship and i will gladly eat my words.
Ripperljohn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#42 - 2012-12-06 08:04:44 UTC
Kiteo Hatto wrote:
Abloo-bloo
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#43 - 2012-12-06 08:15:35 UTC
Ripperljohn wrote:
Kiteo Hatto wrote:
Abloo-bloo

These forums are full of amazing things today.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Kiteo Hatto
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2012-12-06 08:19:32 UTC
6/12/2012 must be a trollday or something, wow. Don't think i'll even bother with forums/eve today.

Also, CCP, can you add "ignore user and hide their posts" feature to your forum.
Souisa
Subhypersonics
#45 - 2012-12-06 08:23:27 UTC
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Aside from that, there's a large number of other issues that are years old.

1. Drones still split damage (that is, attack multiple targets), even with focus fire enabled.

2. Drone UI does not tell you the condition of the drone (SH/AR/HULL) before it is deployed. As such, you often deploy a near-dead drone and lose it instantly.

3. There's no way to see if your drones are being targeted, it is only visible after they begin taking damage, again a UI issue.

4. Drone stats make no sense. 100 signature radius? When a ship holding several of these drones has a sig radius of 120? When drone is 0.02% of the ship's mass and 0.03% of that ship's size/volume? Armor tanked extra-slow Gallente blaster drone has the same sig radius as an extra-fast shield tanked Minmatar drone? On what planet does that make sense?

5. Overabundance of modules - Omni, Nav, Link, Damage. Some of these need to be merged into a single module.

6. Lack of rigs and implants - we still have very few drone rigs and no drone implants that I know of. By comparison, turret and missile implants were introduced when? 2008? Yeah, it's about time.

7. It takes one click to fire all of the ship's turrets/launchers. It takes 5 clicks to deploy a flight of drones and see their HP. Which do you think is faster? Plus drones travel slower than both turret ordinance and missiles. Meaning not only are they slower to deploy, they take far longer to apply their damage compared to any other weapon system in the game.

There's lots and lots of other reasons why drones underperform. Most of these are years old.


But we got boyuntihjs system and safety systejgm! much needed!

o/
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#46 - 2012-12-06 08:26:08 UTC
Kiteo Hatto wrote:
6/12/2012 must be a trollday or something, wow. Don't think i'll even bother with forums/eve today.

Also, CCP, can you add "ignore user and hide their posts" feature to your forum.

Ironically, you can hide posts by a user. Allow me to demonstrate.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Funky Lazers
Funk Freakers
#47 - 2012-12-06 08:31:17 UTC
Kiteo Hatto wrote:
6/12/2012 must be a trollday or something, wow. Don't think i'll even bother with forums/eve today.

Also, CCP, can you add "ignore user and hide their posts" feature to your forum.


Yep. Click the name below the avatar and use "Hide posts"

You know, few years ago you could actually read nullbear's posts/trolls.
Now it's just tears and mindless babbling.

Whatever.
Kiteo Hatto
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2012-12-06 09:14:38 UTC
Funky Lazers wrote:
Kiteo Hatto wrote:
6/12/2012 must be a trollday or something, wow. Don't think i'll even bother with forums/eve today.

Also, CCP, can you add "ignore user and hide their posts" feature to your forum.


Yep. Click the name below the avatar and use "Hide posts"

You know, few years ago you could actually read nullbear's posts/trolls.
Now it's just tears and mindless babbling.


Brilliant! :O Thanks.
Doddy
Excidium.
#49 - 2012-12-06 09:19:01 UTC
I am running things exactly the same as before and still haven't lost a drone, i think you guys are just trying to afk or something.
Funky Lazers
Funk Freakers
#50 - 2012-12-06 09:23:24 UTC
Doddy wrote:
I am running things exactly the same as before and still haven't lost a drone, i think you guys are just trying to afk or something.


You forgot to tell us to "Adapt".

Whatever.
Doddy
Excidium.
#51 - 2012-12-06 09:25:30 UTC
Funky Lazers wrote:
Doddy wrote:
I am running things exactly the same as before and still haven't lost a drone, i think you guys are just trying to afk or something.


You forgot to tell us to "Adapt".


I would rather you didn't tbh, everyone is in competition after all.
TheBlueMonkey
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2012-12-06 09:27:38 UTC
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Aside from that, there's a large number of other issues that are years old.

1. Drones still split damage (that is, attack multiple targets), even with focus fire enabled.

2. Drone UI does not tell you the condition of the drone (SH/AR/HULL) before it is deployed. As such, you often deploy a near-dead drone and lose it instantly.

3. There's no way to see if your drones are being targeted, it is only visible after they begin taking damage, again a UI issue.

4. Drone stats make no sense. 100 signature radius? When a ship holding several of these drones has a sig radius of 120? When drone is 0.02% of the ship's mass and 0.03% of that ship's size/volume? Armor tanked extra-slow Gallente blaster drone has the same sig radius as an extra-fast shield tanked Minmatar drone? On what planet does that make sense?

5. Overabundance of modules - Omni, Nav, Link, Damage. Some of these need to be merged into a single module.

6. Lack of rigs and implants - we still have very few drone rigs and no drone implants that I know of. By comparison, turret and missile implants were introduced when? 2008? Yeah, it's about time.

7. It takes one click to fire all of the ship's turrets/launchers. It takes 5 clicks to deploy a flight of drones and see their HP. Which do you think is faster? Plus drones travel slower than both turret ordinance and missiles. Meaning not only are they slower to deploy, they take far longer to apply their damage compared to any other weapon system in the game.

There's lots and lots of other reasons why drones underperform. Most of these are years old.


Please stop pointing out the actual issues with drones in the op's post, you're making him look stupid.

Rather than him just being stupid and complaining about not being able to drop drones and wander off anymore.
Rordan D'Kherr
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#53 - 2012-12-06 09:33:16 UTC
So what's the point here? PVE micromanagement for drones needed now? I think that's a good thing.

Don't be scared, because being afk is not a crime.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#54 - 2012-12-06 09:52:35 UTC
dexington wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
I wonder why it is that high sec bears are so bad at adapting to changes...


Because null players bad at pve/eve and never learned to use drones, while more skilled hi-sec players constantly try to maximize their performance by utilizing every tool at their disposal. The problem is not adapting to change, it's the complete and absolute refusal of accepting any decrease in personal performance.

While any clueless noob can excel in null, blobing and camping gates, it takes a true maestro to shine in hi-sec. Any dumb child can fool himself into believing he is playing the piano, while only using the white keys, it's takes a lot more to understand importance of using both the black and white keys.



Oh god I'm crying.

Please please please come out to null someday.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#55 - 2012-12-06 10:06:29 UTC
Just finished a bunch of missions in a Rattlesnake (last mission was Angel Extravaganza). Seemed pretty simple: I used an armor rep on my drones (mostly Ogre II and Garde II). The NPC soon gave up on them and returned to shooting me.

No problem with light drones to get rid of webbers (I typically do them last, so I guess I have accumulated a lot of threat by then).

Didn't lose any drones. Nothing insta-popped.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#56 - 2012-12-06 10:31:20 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Also chiming in again to say my light, med and sentries are all still heathy after running guristas anoms. The problem with this change to missions is between the chair and keyboard.
Funky Lazers
Funk Freakers
#57 - 2012-12-06 10:32:04 UTC
I just finished doing Assault mission.
I used Ogres II. Each time they used MWD I yelled "Go faster my servants! Go!". If you yell at them like that they fly 231% faster.
Then they killed the whole pocket within 5 mins.
The aggro was on me the whole time because I used my Taunt and Guard abilities.

Drones are fine, it's just no one has the right skills and experience of using them.
I think CCP should reduce drone damage at least 2 times and their HP by 52.5%.

Adapt you newbs and use your verbal skills to increase drone performance!

Whatever.
Borlag Crendraven
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2012-12-06 10:44:26 UTC
dexington wrote:
Borlag Crendraven wrote:
If 5 mouse clicks is too much effort to ask, maybe, just maybe you shouldn't be playing computer games.


If CCP decided that guns no longer was able to group or auto reload, and randomly would stop firing, forcing the player to constantly watch them to see of they were active, would you also think that was a good idea?

at times that how it feels to use drones.


Seeing that the point was apparently completely lost, let's see what drone users have done so far compared to the turret users shall we? Rattlesnake warps on grid, ctrl-click for one of them, f1 follows to draw agro. Drones launched to handle everything in the pocket. Player goes afk for the duration of the mission.

Turret user warps on grid, ctrl-clicks every one of them, or at least as many as they can lock. Pressing of f1 follows for each and every single critter one at a time. Player stays at the computer for the duration of the entire mission.

Tell me again how drone users have had it so incredibly hard when they've had to click so many times?
Borlag Crendraven
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2012-12-06 10:48:30 UTC
TharOkha wrote:
Borlag Crendraven wrote:
If 5 mouse clicks is too much effort to ask, maybe, just maybe you shouldn't be playing computer games.


Dude... you just win "dumbest post of the month"....and its just early december Ugh

According this post . Perfectly written. Drone UI and logic are terrible, no mater if you PvP or PvE.


Drone UI are terrible yes, but again, if 5 mouse clicks is too much effort to ask, you shouldn't be playing games. Interacting with the controller used to play the game, whether it's mouse or keyboard, is quite neccessary for the game to be worth playing in the first place. If you seriously prefer "games" that require only one click to start and finish it, I'd recommend trying these things called "movies". They don't require much interaction at all, just sit on your ass and see what happens.
Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
#60 - 2012-12-06 10:55:04 UTC
Several solutions have been added in this thread already. I'll sum them up:

In short, NPC AI now works with priority lists. Damage < Drones < E-war/logistics (not yet sure what ranks higher)

Bringn a friend: it's a MMO after all

-equip E-war/logi modules.

People have reported good succes with fitting modules like Target painters, webs, remote reppers (fix your drones & get the aggro yourself!), NOS (get energy & aggro!)

So you do have to slightly adapt your missionfit, but most missionships got either a midslot they can swap out, or got a highslot spare.

Providing a new home for refugees in the Aurora Arcology