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Drones are wet paper bags now

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Casirio
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#101 - 2012-12-05 15:37:20 UTC
JitaPriceChecker2 wrote:
All those tears are so delicious CCP. Good job with expansion.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#102 - 2012-12-05 15:55:10 UTC
Valion Audeles wrote:
So far only the PvP'ers welcome this because it HELPS them in some way by forcing mission runners to get involved on other more risky stuff.

My point is this, I'm a new player, my mission running alt has ALL his skills dumped into drones. I'm not running L4's yet, BUT this means I will have to cross train into something else now. He will be useless for the next month or so. So in that month that I can't play I need to train skills, but I can't unsub because I need to train skills to be able to play the game. Notice my dilemma?

It's already kind of boring as a new player while I wait for skills to complete to get some basic funcionality now I have my last 2 months of training on that guy wasted, so thanks.

that was answered already so i just tell you my story. Maybe it will give you another way....

When i started Eve Online i couldn't use english properly and didn't know about russian community. So first 1-2 months it was solo game for me. OK.
Money was always something tricky for me. Only after 5-6 months i got enough to spend on "useless" stuff.
Time.... Well. My main idea for first year was "i can't spend 2 days to training some skill. I need something RIGHT NOW". That's funny: always being gallente armor tank i got T2 armor hardeners and reppers by 1st year of play Lol Being drone "master" got T2 heavies after 13-15 months. Still have no skills for T2 sentries.
My longest skill for 1st year was Drones 5. It was real pain to wait for 4(!!!) days. Cry

BTW: speaking about learning skills i always disagree with those who talk "you need to sit in station until you get all learning skills to 5 because you will loose training time elsewere! For few months you are useless!". I have never had any learning skill to 5. And it was real planning to decide what do i want and should i train some learning skill to speed-up my plan. I really sure Eve Online lost some part of strategy planning with learning skills.

What about ships? Well. I never waited for "proper skill set" to fly something. Have always jumped into new ship once i've collected enough money to buy it and enough skills to activate. Some of my fits can be found in killboard (i advice to take a look to get some good laughs). However i've never waited!

TLDR: waiting for "proper skill set" to fly something is a very bad idea. It hurts you more than any AI, gankers, scammers, whatever. Just forget about such stupid idea and start to enjoy game you paid already for.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
CARB0N FIBER
Derailleurs
#103 - 2012-12-05 15:57:17 UTC
Konrad Kane wrote:
Louis deGuerre wrote:

All the new players who have put all their skillpoints into Drones and Gallente are just going to love that bit of advice.


My ratting alt has max drone skills, I'm not delighted I'm now going to have to dock up his boat until the drone UI gets buffed. However; practically speaking you'll have to bounce to a new setup or spend all day raging. CCP aren't going to change this for a while, so do something else.

Good idea. I bought Dead Island, that game rocks. Granted I've only been playing for a week or 2, but not have the rules have changed yet. My baseball bat still does the samething as yesterday. I'm good.
BoBoZoBo
MGroup9
#104 - 2012-12-05 16:05:47 UTC  |  Edited by: BoBoZoBo
WOOOW - Not that I want to turn this into a WH pissing contest, I but forget how easy kSpace has (HAD) it sometimes.
Drones STILL kick ass, the difference now is your management of them and the combat space.

AKA situational awareness... much less autopilot.

With this and the new crimewatch tears..
AWESOME JOB CCP

Primary Test Subject • SmackTalker Elite
Josef Djugashvilis
#105 - 2012-12-05 16:18:48 UTC
Veinnail wrote:
the isk isn't even that good from soloing L4s.


Tell that to the null-sec moaners.

This is not a signature.
eddie valvetino
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#106 - 2012-12-05 16:31:37 UTC
BoBoZoBo wrote:
WOOOW - Not that I want to turn this into a WH pissing contest, I but forget how easy kSpace has (HAD) it sometimes.
Drones STILL kick ass, the difference now is your management of them and the combat space.

AKA situational awareness... much less autopilot.

With this and the new crimewatch tears..
AWESOME JOB CCP


I thought the WH dwellers would be laughing about the changes to AI and drone agression.

I have no opinion really, I guess my alt lvl4 solo/semi afk ishtar is now ******... oh well, back to extortion to make money.
Ginger Barbarella
#107 - 2012-12-05 16:36:50 UTC
I think the problem is that most people just release drones and ignore them. Well, yeah, they're gonna die now. Drones have to be managed, even before the AI change. Watch what happens, change play style, adapt. Ran a number of missions last night with ships that I rely on drones to HELP with DPS on, and I lost one Warrior II out of five missions.

The only thing I'm still working out is the old-style "drop the Sentries and fly off" thing. Can't really do that anymore (except in my Gila) without sitting where you launched them.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#108 - 2012-12-05 16:40:06 UTC
So this means that AFK missioning is dead.... what's the problem?


As for drones, it's like after a certain point you only use them to kill scrammer jammer frigates anyway. Keep them in your pocket until they get close.


One thing I learned in 6 years is, never train Gallente only. Things will always change against drone/blaster boats, even when things go good for a while, it's only a matter if time until another bending over occurs. This is why I fly mainly Minmatar and Caldari.


(Some minnie boats have some good drone bays though)

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#109 - 2012-12-05 17:04:07 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
So this means that AFK missioning is dead.... what's the problem?


Non-AFK missioning died with it. That's the problem.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Damsel in Distress
The Scope
#110 - 2012-12-05 17:09:46 UTC
Rensari wrote:

For example, I was doing the mission Damsel in Distress with my Rattlesnake. I have maxed out drones skills and Gallente BS V. So my drones get a bunch more hit points. I put out 5x Ogre IIs and was targetting the Battleships that were orbiting me at around 3-4k. The cruisers / battlecruisers would target an Ogre II and within a few seconds it would be into structure. I was watching them like a hawk, and was able to pull them in before they died... but if they had been further than say 4k from my ship? Dead Ogres.




Sorry :(
Amitious Turkey
10kSubnautic
Warriors of the Blood God
#111 - 2012-12-05 17:17:08 UTC
Wormhole pve has been this way for 3 years...and I seem to recall that even back then they wanted to expand the new AI to every npc.

So congrats on protesting a change that's been 3 years in the making.What? Maybe you could look up wormhole fits and adapt them to lvl4's.

I like to lick things.

Haunting the forums since 03.
Ioci
Bad Girl Posse
#112 - 2012-12-05 17:28:48 UTC
Amitious Turkey wrote:
Wormhole pve has been this way for 3 years...and I seem to recall that even back then they wanted to expand the new AI to every npc.

So congrats on protesting a change that's been 3 years in the making.What? Maybe you could look up wormhole fits and adapt them to lvl4's.


You mean like the kite fit HML Tengu they just nerfed?
CCP's war on their own content won't slow down because of silly little things like players.

R.I.P. Vile Rat
Toroup
Prometheus Deep Core Mining and Salvage
#113 - 2012-12-05 17:29:58 UTC
I switched to Hobi IIs in my Rattler and used them to focus on the BCs/cruisers/frigates and used my Torps (or Cruises depending on mission) to focus on the Battleships. I had no issue running like 3 level 4s last night and didn't really have any losses - you can stuff 80 Hobis in the Rattler's drone bay.
Ioci
Bad Girl Posse
#114 - 2012-12-05 17:32:47 UTC
Toroup wrote:
I switched to Hobi IIs in my Rattler and used them to focus on the BCs/cruisers/frigates and used my Torps (or Cruises depending on mission) to focus on the Battleships. I had no issue running like 3 level 4s last night and didn't really have any losses - you can stuff 80 Hobis in the Rattler's drone bay.


You found the solution CCP was looking for.

Take longer, make less.

Waiting for ships to drop in price to reflect the new income levels.
I'll get back to you in 10 years.

R.I.P. Vile Rat
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#115 - 2012-12-05 17:38:19 UTC
Amitious Turkey wrote:
Wormhole pve has been this way for 3 years...and I seem to recall that even back then they wanted to expand the new AI to every npc.

So congrats on protesting a change that's been 3 years in the making.What? Maybe you could look up wormhole fits and adapt them to lvl4's.


Sigh, someone else that doesn't get the big picture.

Wormholes and Incursions work because they were built from scratch to work the way they do. Missions and complexes weren't. Show my the wormhole site that STARTS with 35 npc ships on the field when you warp in. Show me the wormhole anom with 13 tacking npc frigs at warp in.

What some of us suggested CCP do was fix the drone user interface and revamp missions to have fewer but more powerful rats like wormholes and incursions 1st THEN bring on the new AI. We got new AI 1st that is making Sansha and Blood Raider NPC space (for an example ) and many many other missions and complexes so annoying as to almost be undoable.

in null sec this means the frigless Forsaken hubs and like anoms are going to get WAY more crowded than they have ever been, and those things spew isk unlike anoms with frigs that slow isk making down. If you see a bunch of inflation next quarter, blame those damn npcs lol.
Averyia
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#116 - 2012-12-05 17:56:19 UTC
The changes to the AI changes a lot of things, drones aren't the only one. Sansha rats will now tracking disrupt you always instead of by chance. This forced me to change my apoc fitting to compensate.

I'd imagine that gallente based rats are going to be sensor dampening you to hell. That will also cause a complete change in how ships are fit.

So if you are ratting with drones... say goodbye to that or adapt. It is really that simple.


On a side note, it does appear that the Raven and other missile ships are only going to get more used.

All warfare is based on deception and logistics. Battles and soldiers are secondary priorities.
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#117 - 2012-12-05 18:24:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Xercodo
Spc One wrote:
What patch notes don't tell you:

EXPANSION ABOUT NERFS, Because Missiles were ok for 6 years now but now they're overpowered.

a.) PVE

1. All missile ships are now obsolete (very low range and decreased damage)
2. All Drone ships are now obsolete due to new AI (your drones get targeted as soon as you deploy them)
3. All ships that rely on drones for protection against frigates are obsolete
4. NPC's tracking disruptor now affects optimal range and falloff instead of just optimal range, which makes 800mm's minmatar ships obsolete in pve.
5. All npc complexes and ark missions are now insanely hard to do, you can't use drones
6. There are only few ships that can save you from mission if you loose all of your drones and get stuck (scrambled with npc agression).
7. New meta 9 - 14 drone modules are obsolete for pve, since ai will always shoot your drones.
8. If you use marauders or other ships for guristas missions you'll get perma jammed, there's nothing you can do since you can't use drones.

b). PVP
1. All Heavy Missile ships are now obsolete
2. Drake is worst battlecruiser for pvp
3. Hurricane got nerfed so it is kinda useless now
4. Tengu now sucks compared to other t-3's
5. Very hard to gank someone ratting in low sec or 0.0 with stealth bombers or frigate since npc's will switch targets



A.) PVE

1. The range is now comparable to something a 720mm or heavy beam laser can achieve, welcome to our range. 90% Of people are reporting a loss of 60 DPS. Hardly the end of the world.
2. I still do think they're entirely THAT bad. I ran Stop the Thief last night and lost one drone to initial aggro (and they had webs so recalling didnt help)
3. See 2
4. You mean like the other two gun systems too? Hybrids and Lasers called, they said DEAL WITH IT
5. See 2
6. I guess bring a logi frigate? :D
7. See 2
8. Even when flying a marauder I haven't found that Guristas mission were any worse than the Serpentis missions. Granted, I haven't ran any Guristas missions since Retri so I can't say much to this one.

B.) PVP

1. See 1 of PVE
2. HAM drake will **** your **** up like a 425mm hurricane will
3. Powegrid reduction really that bad? I can't imagine it really is but that remains to be seen, so I'll leave this one.
4. Really? Compare a HAM Tengu to a HAM Legion or a HPL legion or a 425mm Loki or a neutron blaster Prot. HAM-gu stil scares me.
5. Okay yeah bombers being toast I'll give you but that's just sad if your AF gets pwned by belt rats. I will give you, though, that a anom full of frigs can do a number on any small ship pretty quick...

The Drake is a Lie
Veinnail
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#118 - 2012-12-05 18:32:31 UTC
Thorn Galen wrote:
FoF missiles on lvl5 actually mean something now.



ONLY if they removed the fof flagging of structures like "guristas wall" and "guristas elevator" because all of these structures, technically owned by the indigenous pirates get flagged for FOF targetting, and since the FOFs shoot the nearest thing first, it fails and takes forever.

If they have fixed this, then GREAT! if not, then FOFs are still useless in any mission with a destructible object.

some of these sites have dozens of HIGH HP structures. example would be the one that looks like the gallentean stargate. TONS of HP.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#119 - 2012-12-05 18:35:49 UTC
A friend and I just ran what must have been about twenty level four missions. We had no issues in completing them. We were in Domis.
Amitious Turkey
10kSubnautic
Warriors of the Blood God
#120 - 2012-12-05 19:32:54 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Amitious Turkey wrote:
Wormhole pve has been this way for 3 years...and I seem to recall that even back then they wanted to expand the new AI to every npc.

So congrats on protesting a change that's been 3 years in the making.What? Maybe you could look up wormhole fits and adapt them to lvl4's.


Sigh, someone else that doesn't get the big picture.

Wormholes and Incursions work because they were built from scratch to work the way they do. Missions and complexes weren't. Show my the wormhole site that STARTS with 35 npc ships on the field when you warp in. Show me the wormhole anom with 13 tacking npc frigs at warp in.

What some of us suggested CCP do was fix the drone user interface and revamp missions to have fewer but more powerful rats like wormholes and incursions 1st THEN bring on the new AI. We got new AI 1st that is making Sansha and Blood Raider NPC space (for an example ) and many many other missions and complexes so annoying as to almost be undoable.

in null sec this means the frigless Forsaken hubs and like anoms are going to get WAY more crowded than they have ever been, and those things spew isk unlike anoms with frigs that slow isk making down. If you see a bunch of inflation next quarter, blame those damn npcs lol.


Hmm, didn't think about that. I stand corrected.

I like to lick things.

Haunting the forums since 03.