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Capital reps and Armor Links (Confirmed Stealth Nerf)

First post First post
Author
Verushka Atreides
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#81 - 2012-12-04 17:30:30 UTC
What the hell CCP.

Shield cap mods were effected by boosters just as armor ones were.

This is a significant nerf for many people, most of all for w-space, as a triage carrier is often the backbone. With mass limits it's not like we can just bring more..
Kevin Emoto
No Code of Conduct
#82 - 2012-12-04 17:32:24 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
What you are describing is a side effect of the change:
Quote:
Removed non-capital skill requirements from capital remote assistance modules. (Shield Emission Systems, Energy Emission Systems, Remote Hull Repair Systems and Remote Armor Repair Systems)

We are currently in the process of refactoring the way skills and effects apply to capital modules.

In this case the gang links had previously been affecting Capital Remote Armor Repair Systems but not Capital Shield Transporters. This change brought the armor reps in line with the shield variants.

We may re-evaluate this going forward, either through changes to the gang boost modules or possibly to the triage mod, but we can't guarantee anything at this point.


Actually, this is wrong, and they did indeed affect Capital Shield Transporters
Helicity Boson
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#83 - 2012-12-04 17:32:52 UTC
Kevin Emoto wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
What you are describing is a side effect of the change:
Quote:
Removed non-capital skill requirements from capital remote assistance modules. (Shield Emission Systems, Energy Emission Systems, Remote Hull Repair Systems and Remote Armor Repair Systems)

We are currently in the process of refactoring the way skills and effects apply to capital modules.

In this case the gang links had previously been affecting Capital Remote Armor Repair Systems but not Capital Shield Transporters. This change brought the armor reps in line with the shield variants.

We may re-evaluate this going forward, either through changes to the gang boost modules or possibly to the triage mod, but we can't guarantee anything at this point.


Actually, this is wrong, and they did indeed affect Capital Shield Transporters


^this.
Kari Juptris
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#84 - 2012-12-04 17:33:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Kari Juptris
Bagehi wrote:
How does this impact implant sets like the Talisman? Was this just confined to capital reps or were cap transfers changed as well?


CCP Fozzie wrote:
What it means is that no modules or skills will affect the capital remote assistance mods unless they are explicitly programmed to. So that applies to gang mods, rigs, implants, and skills.


Best hope that Talismans are explicitly programmed to.
Kate sh'Eli
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#85 - 2012-12-04 17:35:46 UTC
Kari Juptris wrote:
Bagehi wrote:
How does this impact implant sets like the Talisman? Was this just confined to capital reps or were cap transfers changed as well?


CCP Fozzie wrote:
What it means is that no modules or skills will affect the capital remote assistance mods unless they are explicitly programmed to. So that applies to gang mods, rigs, implants, and skills.


Best hope that Talismans are explicitly programmed to.


They aren't, my talisman set chimera cap battery is ruined Sad
Rengas
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#86 - 2012-12-04 17:35:54 UTC
Thanks CCP!

I was about to waste perfectly good skillpoints training for T2 Triage!

Now I can put them into something useful like Mining Frigate 5 Big smile
Chandaris
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#87 - 2012-12-04 17:36:20 UTC
> CCP IHateCapS: "ALL YOUR REPS ARE BELONG TO ME!"
1Compression
Repercussus
Northern Coalition.
#88 - 2012-12-04 17:38:14 UTC
Darenthul wrote:
"A nerf went through apparently and CCP didn't respond in 5 minutes that means they're hiding something, myself as a pro-uber software developer for a giant company I know what its like, you're terrible CCP, you suck, etc. etc."

You guys are some of the most entitled fools I've ever had the displeasure of experiencing.

Legit concerns are one thing, this was a stealth nerf, this is something to be concerned about, its a huge stealth nerf, even more concerning.

But going off on a tangent like freaking 5 year old's is just uncalled for. They'll address the concerns eventually, chill the hell out and stop acting like such children about it. Swearing up a storm and flinging insults does nothing but make the rest of the community wish more crap like this WOULD happen to you.

To those being civil about the mess and simply requesting some answers, kudos to you, you make the community shine. To the rest, grow up.


This.

Issue #1: It's a game impacting change. It needed to be in the notes well in advance and available for feedback in test threads.
Issue #2: The majority of posts in this thread are horrible. Show numbers, show intellectual feedback.


  • Armor links previously affected both shield and armor capital components.
  • The change was not announced prior to the update.


Can anyone provide intelligent explanation/example of the impact this is going to have on triage groups? What will they no longer be able to rep that they could before?
ALLKRYDDA
ShekelSquad
Interhole Revenue Service
#89 - 2012-12-04 17:38:18 UTC
Ezra Vouland wrote:
You still didn't provide the number amount of which will be taken away. Not to mention most the kids crying here are crying over triage, and if are repping 10-12 seconds as triage, are doing it wrong.

Lets make it simple. If you have a bro in a damnation boosting Rapid Repair and that is now gone, how much armor per second is lost?


You clearly don't get this change then. Its not about the armor per second as much as its about the cycle time to get armor to the guy in need. If you're in a battleship getting primaried by another fleet with triage archons hangin out on field to rep you, those links help the archons get reps on you faster...honestly I dont think anyone cares how much armor per second thats not the complaint. Its the fact you have to wait an entire cycle timer to get any reps at all. And yes triage should be faster it cuts the cycle time in half so now you're a sitting duck for 6 seconds. I dont know if you've done fleet warfare champ but 6 seconds is about 4 seconds longer than needed pop real quick.
JasonXXL
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#90 - 2012-12-04 17:40:03 UTC
Dethmourne Silvermane wrote:
I don't understand why this wasn't considered a giant red flag. You have SIGNIFICANTLY modified the way the game works for capitals, both shield and armor. If the rigs no longer function, that's a bunch of ships with now-useless rigs. If the gang links no longer function, you've just made a subset of fleet comps completely useless. You've also pushed subcap warfare heavily in favor of shields since shield triage is going to be the only viable mechanism for saving ships with triage reps (and I can think of multiple doctrines that just got nerfed into uselessness).

This is such a huge nerf, I find it amazingly difficult to comprehend how you could be less than forthcoming in this regard.



This.
Toku Jiang
Jiang Laboratories and Discovery
#91 - 2012-12-04 17:40:47 UTC
So glad I trained for a Chimera.
Alua Oresson
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#92 - 2012-12-04 17:41:56 UTC
Toku Jiang wrote:
So glad I trained for a Chimera.


Your reps got nerfed too. Good job on reading comprehension there.

http://pvpwannabe.blogspot.com/

Helicity Boson
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#93 - 2012-12-04 17:42:22 UTC
1Compression wrote:
Darenthul wrote:
"A nerf went through apparently and CCP didn't respond in 5 minutes that means they're hiding something, myself as a pro-uber software developer for a giant company I know what its like, you're terrible CCP, you suck, etc. etc."

You guys are some of the most entitled fools I've ever had the displeasure of experiencing.

Legit concerns are one thing, this was a stealth nerf, this is something to be concerned about, its a huge stealth nerf, even more concerning.

But going off on a tangent like freaking 5 year old's is just uncalled for. They'll address the concerns eventually, chill the hell out and stop acting like such children about it. Swearing up a storm and flinging insults does nothing but make the rest of the community wish more crap like this WOULD happen to you.

To those being civil about the mess and simply requesting some answers, kudos to you, you make the community shine. To the rest, grow up.


This.

Issue #1: It's a game impacting change. It needed to be in the notes well in advance and available for feedback in test threads.
Issue #2: The majority of posts in this thread are horrible. Show numbers, show intellectual feedback.


  • Armor links previously affected both shield and armor capital components.
  • The change was not announced prior to the update.


Can anyone provide intelligent explanation/example of the impact this is going to have on triage groups? What will they no longer be able to rep that they could before?


You add up the command link bonus, and that is how much repping power you lost. Which boils down to roughly 1/3rd of your total repping output. Which is huge. And that's not counting the crucial effect slower cycle times have on armor RR (i.e. stuff dies before the cycle hits)

It's a big deal.
Ezra Vouland
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#94 - 2012-12-04 17:42:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Ezra Vouland
ALLKRYDDA wrote:
Ezra Vouland wrote:
You still didn't provide the number amount of which will be taken away. Not to mention most the kids crying here are crying over triage, and if are repping 10-12 seconds as triage, are doing it wrong.

Lets make it simple. If you have a bro in a damnation boosting Rapid Repair and that is now gone, how much armor per second is lost?


You clearly don't get this change then. Its not about the armor per second as much as its about the cycle time to get armor to the guy in need. If you're in a battleship getting primaried by another fleet with triage archons hangin out on field to rep you, those links help the archons get reps on you faster...honestly I dont think anyone cares how much armor per second thats not the complaint. Its the fact you have to wait an entire cycle timer to get any reps at all. And yes triage should be faster it cuts the cycle time in half so now you're a sitting duck for 6 seconds. I dont know if you've done fleet warfare champ but 6 seconds is about 4 seconds longer than needed pop real quick.


You clearly aren't getting it. You can calculate armor per second by the amount repped and the activation time over reps.

I understand how the armor mechanics work, I've been playing the game since 2002. I just want to know what the actual time and armor amount. If people are crying over a few % its more amusing watching the eve community cry hard.
Ayeson
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#95 - 2012-12-04 17:43:19 UTC
Qaldramas wrote:

I'm trying to give you guys the benefit of the doubt here - I honestly don't think you meant to break things so badly (which, as others have brought up, has implications that you are not as connected with your player base as you should be, but that's another matter.) Rather than joining the flame train, I'd like to see some more CCP response here. Sneaking in a major nerf and then planning on maybe doing a buff to balance it out at some point if you feel like it is not acceptable. Would you mind sharing more details on these proposed buffs?

In the meantime, I also /sign that these changes should be rolled back. If, at some future date, there will be buffs to balance out the nerfs, fine, implement the nerf then with plenty of warning.

As an added personal appeal, please fix this soon so that I don't have to endure more nerd rage on coms. Please and thank you :)


/Signed

Thanks for making my T2 Triage useless
Needmore Longcat
Hoover Inc.
Pandemic Legion
#96 - 2012-12-04 17:46:33 UTC
:popcorn:
Spc One
The Chodak
Void Alliance
#97 - 2012-12-04 17:46:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Spc One
CCP Fozzie wrote:

In this case the gang links had previously been affecting Capital Remote Armor Repair Systems but not Capital Shield Transporters. This change brought the armor reps in line with the shield variants.


You forgot the capital hull remote repairer, it still requires sub cap skills to 5.
Roll
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#98 - 2012-12-04 17:46:37 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
So here's the deal.

Firstly. I have confirmed that I stated incorrect information in my earlier forum post. I apologize for the mistake and want to clearly state that those of you arguing that the links all affected shield transporters were and are correct and I was wrong.
What happened was I accepted incorrect information at face value, information that I should have known was wrong and information that I should have personally confirmed before making any statements. Many of you know me well enough to know that this kind of mistake is not the kind of thing I want to be allowing myself to make, and frankly there's egg on my face.

The change was made as a defect response to a defect that contained incorrect information, and although I brought up some concerns when it was initially reported (as did the CSM, most notably Two Step), I did not dig deep enough and we let an imbalanced change hit TQ.

So what we're going to do is roll back this whole change as the first available patch opportunity and then go back to the drawing board to create a more complete plan to both make capital effects more understandable and ensure that the mechanics stay balanced and that we don't crush capital pilots.

We'll keep you updated, and once again I'm very sorry.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Toku Jiang
Jiang Laboratories and Discovery
#99 - 2012-12-04 17:48:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Toku Jiang
Alua Oresson wrote:
Toku Jiang wrote:
So glad I trained for a Chimera.


Your reps got nerfed too. Good job on reading comprehension there.


Ya but I didn't sink a fortune on rigs and implants that don't work as I thought they did Lol
Veinnail
FinFleet
Northern Coalition.
#100 - 2012-12-04 17:48:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Veinnail
[redacted]
The biggest issue here is that the change was kept quiet because no player discovered the change on test servers. Which makes sense because how many hardcore triage teams work on test servers?


edit: thank you for rollback and promise of better practice in regards to this.