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Capital reps and Armor Links (Confirmed Stealth Nerf)

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DelBoy Trades
Trotter Independent Traders.
Stealth Alliance
#1 - 2012-12-04 10:18:33 UTC  |  Edited by: DelBoy Trades
I've been told that armor links no longer affect a carrier's reps or remote reps any more on the test server and when bug reported was told an intentional change. Can it be clarified whether this is actually the case and whether or not this will be on TQ. Some questions...

QuestionIf it is true, why? Why are you nerfing something that really, really doesn't need to be nerfed?
QuestionWhy is this a stealth nerf and not publicised? This will have serious impacts on how alliances use carriers and they should have been informed of the change.

An answer from someone in the know would be greatly appreciated.

(Hoping it was just a rumour)

Damn nature, you scary!
DelBoy Trades
Trotter Independent Traders.
Stealth Alliance
#2 - 2012-12-04 12:50:54 UTC  |  Edited by: DelBoy Trades
Just got to test this for myself on TQ and it is true. Armour links do not effect capital reps or capital remote reps anymore. So, to my questions:

a) Why? Why on earth are you nerfing capital reps and remote reps?
b) Why the #### didn't you release this information anywhere, in any of the patch notes?

Damn nature, you scary!
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#3 - 2012-12-04 13:38:31 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
What you are describing is a side effect of the change:
Quote:
Removed non-capital skill requirements from capital remote assistance modules. (Shield Emission Systems, Energy Emission Systems, Remote Hull Repair Systems and Remote Armor Repair Systems)

We are currently in the process of refactoring the way skills and effects apply to capital modules.

:Incorrect information for which I apologize:

We may re-evaluate this going forward, either through changes to the gang boost modules or possibly to the triage mod, but we can't guarantee anything at this point.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Tal'rakken
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2012-12-04 13:47:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Tal'rakken
CCP Fozzie wrote:
What you are describing is a side effect of the change:
Quote:
Removed non-capital skill requirements from capital remote assistance modules. (Shield Emission Systems, Energy Emission Systems, Remote Hull Repair Systems and Remote Armor Repair Systems)

We are currently in the process of refactoring the way skills and effects apply to capital modules.

In this case the gang links had previously been affecting Capital Remote Armor Repair Systems but not Capital Shield Transporters. This change brought the armor reps in line with the shield variants.

We may re-evaluate this going forward, either through changes to the gang boost modules or possibly to the triage mod, but we can't guarantee anything at this point.


That quote said nothing about the gang mods not effecting the modules why wasnt that in the patch notes as that IS a very large change for some corps/alliances. can change entire fleet comps actually.

Quote:

- Removed non-capital skill requirements from capital remote assistance modules. (Shield Emission Systems, Energy Emission Systems, Remote Hull Repair Systems and Remote Armor Repair Systems)

- Decreased capacitor use of capital remote assistance modules to compensate for loss of skill bonus.
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#5 - 2012-12-04 13:50:58 UTC
Yup the implications of the change were not spelled out very clearly, we should have put a lot more explanation into the note. What it means is that no modules or skills will affect the capital remote assistance mods unless they are explicitly programmed to. So that applies to gang mods, rigs, implants, and skills.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Ampoliros
Aperture Harmonics
#6 - 2012-12-04 14:12:24 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Yup the implications of the change were not spelled out very clearly, we should have put a lot more explanation into the note. What it means is that no modules or skills will affect the capital remote assistance mods unless they are explicitly programmed to. So that applies to gang mods, rigs, implants, and skills.


That's a pretty severe and sudden nerf, especially to dedicated triage pilots. I get making it consistent, but removing all bonuses entirely is pretty unnecessary unless you guys were concerned about capital RR being too strong (in which case, why not be honest about it and nerf it directly?)

What?
DelBoy Trades
Trotter Independent Traders.
Stealth Alliance
#7 - 2012-12-04 14:13:02 UTC  |  Edited by: DelBoy Trades
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Yup the implications of the change were not spelled out very clearly.

When you say not very clearly, what I think you mean to say is "Completely and comprehensively evaded any mention at all." Just to prepare you for the incoming shitstorm the next time a lowsec alliance drops their armour+triage gang and are unable to get reps to land before their ships are in structure, I'll offer you some advice; Buff shield links in line with armour regarding cap reps and rescind today's stealth-nerfs.

Oh, the K162 guy above me just reminded me to mention, the WH community are going to **** bricks.

Damn nature, you scary!
Tal'rakken
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2012-12-04 14:18:44 UTC
DelBoy Trades wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Yup the implications of the change were not spelled out very clearly.

When you say not very clearly, what I think you mean to say is "Completely and comprehensively evaded any mention at all." Just to prepare you for the incoming shitstorm the next time a lowsec alliance drops their armour+triage gang and are unable to get reps to land before their ships are in structure, I'll offer you some advice; Buff shield links in line with armour regarding cap reps and rescind today's stealth-nerfs.

Oh, the K162 guy above me just reminded me to mention, the WH community are going to **** bricks.



you should hear our coms lol
Prime FLux
Perkone
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-12-04 14:19:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Prime FLux
So the Intherent implant 'noble' repair proficency rp-90x and inherent implants 'noble' remote armor repair systems RA-70x are now useless with the capital sized mods?

Not happy with this

If this is what you intend, then you have to change in the description for the implants. just saying
Hans Downherpantz
ElitistOps
Deepwater Hooligans
#10 - 2012-12-04 14:27:28 UTC
This should have been billed as a Major nerf.

Vast amounts of isk have been put into Triage clones...pilots...boosters...fits....a nerf on this scale should have been put in bold and red, seeing as it is ESSENTIAL to the triage mechanic to have the bonus...considering the time lag on the reps. UNLIKE shield.

Make your mind up. Either make them identical (armour and shield) or give them different characters....this nerf is frankly stupid and shield triage is now going to be massively superior.
Wivabel
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-12-04 14:32:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Wivabel
What about Drugs will they still work.

I am not sure if I am going to log in anymore.......
DelBoy Trades
Trotter Independent Traders.
Stealth Alliance
#12 - 2012-12-04 14:53:13 UTC
What is being looked over by CCP is the fact that shield reps take effect immediately, where as the cycle time bonus was inherently important for armour triage reps to be applied to subcaps in time. Remote shield reps have locking time and module activation time between the subcap and the prospect of being spacedust, where as the armour reps have the addition (Now 5 seconds) of cycle time. In a large engagement the time taken for an armour triage to lock up, activate module and now increased cycle time is going to make armour triage really impracticable in contrast to shield triage.

Damn nature, you scary!
Tal'rakken
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2012-12-04 15:01:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Tal'rakken
Fozzie can we get a confirmation on combat boosters?? I would really like to know if all that isk i spent on exhile boosters was wasted or not. Also were any other capital mods effected by this?? also are the local reps effected by these changes??

!!!! Do cataclysmic wormholes still effect capital remote reps?!?!?!? they should get a double bonus in a cataclysmic. can anyone check to see if this is still the case??
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#14 - 2012-12-04 15:09:58 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
Tal'rakken wrote:
Fozzie can we get a confirmation on combat boosters?? I would really like to know if all that isk i spent on exhile boosters was wasted or not. Also were any other capital mods effected by this?? also are the local reps effected by these changes??


Local reps are not affected by this change. This only affects the capital remote assistance modules.

Cataclysmic Variable effects still apply to capital mods including the capital remote repair mods.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Tal'rakken
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2012-12-04 15:40:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Tal'rakken
I fail sometimes already answereed exile only effects locals (facepalm)
RedShadow
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-12-04 15:45:54 UTC
Your nerf is bad and you should feel bad!

It's a shame how silent you guys again tried to sell us a major game-change as a minor-detail. Just unbelievable. Again.

Stop that nerf!
The Djentleman Paulson
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#17 - 2012-12-04 15:56:24 UTC
NOES THEY NERFIN MUH FOXCATS
CraftyCroc
Fraternity Alliance Please Ignore
#18 - 2012-12-04 15:57:08 UTC
FFS - another ALT de-valued by CCP.

Can those who've trained for triage receive sp refunds?
Jin alPatar
Entertainment 7wenty
The Burning Contingent Alliance
#19 - 2012-12-04 16:03:03 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
What you are describing is a side effect of the change:
Quote:
Removed non-capital skill requirements from capital remote assistance modules. (Shield Emission Systems, Energy Emission Systems, Remote Hull Repair Systems and Remote Armor Repair Systems)

We are currently in the process of refactoring the way skills and effects apply to capital modules.

In this case the gang links had previously been affecting Capital Remote Armor Repair Systems but not Capital Shield Transporters. This change brought the armor reps in line with the shield variants.

We may re-evaluate this going forward, either through changes to the gang boost modules or possibly to the triage mod, but we can't guarantee anything at this point.


Wow, you really didn't want us to know about this before the patch, did you? That's the only conclusion I can draw as such a huge change would have every reason to be explicitly spelled out in the patch notes & blogs leading up to the expansion.
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-12-04 16:06:38 UTC
Wivabel wrote:
What about Drugs will they still work.

The drugs dont work, they just make you worse

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION
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