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Regarding the new bounty feature

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Singoth
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2012-11-28 15:31:05 UTC
Lance Rossiter wrote:
The presentation of the system doesn't make sense at all: where murder is illegal the procurement of murder should be illegal as well - that's a straightforwards and universal expectation.

If it were presented as some sort of shady underworld system, then that would solve the presentation issue.

The sense behind the presentation also doesn't detract from its value as a gameplay system, which I think seems fairly robust.

Ah, that's where you are wrong.
Murder isn't illegal in EVE. You go on and declare a war against any damn high-sec corp you want, see how much kills you get and in how much of those kills, concord shows up to stop you.
You go on and roam nullsec, see how often concord shows up to stop you.

The only time it is illegal to kill someone is when you didn't pay concord for a war or to purchase a killright or something.

Less yappin', more zappin'!
Lance Rossiter
CHAINS Corp
#42 - 2012-11-28 18:35:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Lance Rossiter
I think the concept of war is understood well enough that we can recognise a difference between killing during war, and murder. Murder is not legal in EVE simply because war is possible: the existence of a concept of a state of war that can legitimise killing only serves to highlight that under normal circumstances, killing ain't legitimate in high sec, or low sec for that matter.

The silliness of being able able to procure illegal killing through official channels can't be mitigated by pretending that killing is really totally acceptable in Empire. That's even sillier, and not true.
Sephira Galamore
Inner Beard Society
Kvitravn.
#43 - 2012-11-29 14:55:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Sephira Galamore
Lance Rossiter wrote:
I think the concept of war is understood well enough that we can recognise a difference between killing during war, and murder. Murder is not legal in EVE simply because war is possible: the existence of a concept of a state of war that can legitimise killing only serves to highlight that under normal circumstances, killing ain't legitimate in high sec, or low sec for that matter.

The silliness of being able able to procure illegal killing through official channels can't be mitigated by pretending that killing is really totally acceptable in Empire. That's even sillier, and not true.


See, CONCORD may actually have a vested interest in a bounty system. You must now, they do make money from wars. And wars will be encourage by bounties, especially since we have corp/alliance bounties. And while the bureaucracy part of those might be tiresome¹, I think CONCORD appreciates the income.
More enterprising agents within might even appreciate an increase in the need for CONCORD intervention (due to suicide ganks), to fermate the role and importance of CONCORD in the eyes of the Empires.


¹ Eve: Emyprean Age, Chapter 27
Vartan Sarkisian
Tannhauser C-Beam
Lux Collective
#44 - 2012-11-29 15:49:52 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Dr No Game wrote:
Methelic Mahyisti wrote:
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:
No, this makes perfect sense. Compare it with a court order or demands from a legal collection agency. Ship / pod loss isn't murder in the Eve Universe, it's destruction of property. If this doesn't make sense, the real world doesn't make sense either.... oh wait...Ugh



Then why can't you legally destroy someone's ship? This doens't make any sense what so ever.

Incentive. Is a 1BIl ISK bounty risk the loss of a crappy ship?



Though you'd only get 1 billion, if the targets ship is worth 5 Blink You only get 20% of ship value. this is to stop people blowing themselves up with an alt, to claim their own bounties


Wouldn't they just get the alt to blow them up 5 times then?
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#45 - 2012-11-29 15:51:42 UTC
Methelic Mahyisti wrote:
Liner Xiandra wrote:
Methelic Mahyisti wrote:



Then why are these bounties advertised on the same screen on which CONCORD also appears?.. It's like advertising hits publicly.


Yes. and?

You can also bribe concord to not intervene when attacking other corporations in Hi-Sec. It's called declaring war.
Concord is not some pacifist movement.



Thus there is no point in hisec anyone as you can kill anyone you please.

Sir, what game are you playing, it's obviously not EVE.

On a more serious note, did you actually try to come up with the most absurd comment possible, or did that happen by mistake?



In 2012, as you will in 2013, just like you could in 2003, you will be able to blow up any ship at any time, in any region of space as long as you have the means and motivation to do so. Bounties do not change any of that.

I thought I smoked nothing but the best, but judging by your response there, my stuff must be complete crap compaired to yours.


Stop playing whatever game you're playing, and actually start playing EVE if you're going to complain about features and mechanics, please.
CCP Soundwave
C C P
C C P Alliance
#46 - 2012-11-29 15:52:37 UTC
I <3 this system.
Vartan Sarkisian
Tannhauser C-Beam
Lux Collective
#47 - 2012-11-29 15:52:53 UTC
So in essence, if the person with the bounty isnt flashy red then it would be a suicide gank?

I was under the impression thought that the people with a large bounty were station characters that never left a station.
CCP Soundwave
C C P
C C P Alliance
#48 - 2012-11-29 15:53:54 UTC
Vartan Sarkisian wrote:
So in essence, if the person with the bounty isnt flashy red then it would be a suicide gank?

I was under the impression thought that the people with a large bounty were station characters that never left a station.


Yes (unless there is some other criteria, like warfare, to make them a target).
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#49 - 2012-11-29 15:56:42 UTC
Vartan Sarkisian wrote:
So in essence, if the person with the bounty isnt flashy red then it would be a suicide gank?

I was under the impression thought that the people with a large bounty were station characters that never left a station.

Yup.

I expect the new bounty system to be just as useful as the old.

How often do you see people flying around with a bounty on them again?
About the only usefullness I can see is the ability to force miners to stay docked. Or do people really think that the group of players that couldn't be assed to tank a several hundred million dollar ship becuse it would reduce their profits per hour slightly are actually going to spend isk on the bounty system?

lol.

Ok.

That'll happen for sure.
Solarius Elrond
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2012-12-01 00:16:53 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Methelic Mahyisti wrote:
Tor Mitchel wrote:
Methelic Mahyisti wrote:
Very funny. So EVE is defined as completely changing its core concept from one day to another?

Okay thank you


Where did you get that from? HiSec has never been 100% effective at protecting players. When you undock there is always a risk of ship loss. Always has been.



But CONCORD would interfere. It has been stated above that CONCORD does not interfere if you pay a tiny sum of money to place a bounty on you.



You're not reading what people have said.

Concord will not interfere with the payment

Concord /will/ blow you up, if you attack someone in high-sec, without kill rights/a war dec.

Putting a bounty on someone does not remove Concord's protection from them.


I have pointed out elsewhere:

If I understand the proposed new system correctly...

...Since anyone can be Bountied by anyone anywhere.......

100 thousand Isk mininmum bounty on a player is placed as he is noted to be flying an Obelisk thru a system. (Slow rich Target) He is then Suicide ganked by a the group of Thrashers who solit the cost of the Bounty and now share the 200 million 20% value of the ship being flown by the freshly bountied player.

Yes Concord will swarm about whacking any surviving aggressors in their nice cheap ships. A real deterrent I must say, now that suicide ganking can easily be made super profitable.

And how long is the game supposed to survive with this mechanism in place?

Kill rights only stave off Concord action. A Bounty does not, but can easily be abused to stifle all commerce... for the Lulz of course.

Nice plan.
Mark Munoz
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2012-12-01 00:39:14 UTC
Solarius Elrond wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Methelic Mahyisti wrote:
Tor Mitchel wrote:
Methelic Mahyisti wrote:
Very funny. So EVE is defined as completely changing its core concept from one day to another?

Okay thank you


Where did you get that from? HiSec has never been 100% effective at protecting players. When you undock there is always a risk of ship loss. Always has been.



But CONCORD would interfere. It has been stated above that CONCORD does not interfere if you pay a tiny sum of money to place a bounty on you.



You're not reading what people have said.

Concord will not interfere with the payment

Concord /will/ blow you up, if you attack someone in high-sec, without kill rights/a war dec.

Putting a bounty on someone does not remove Concord's protection from them.


I have pointed out elsewhere:

If I understand the proposed new system correctly...

...Since anyone can be Bountied by anyone anywhere.......

100 thousand Isk mininmum bounty on a player is placed as he is noted to be flying an Obelisk thru a system. (Slow rich Target) He is then Suicide ganked by a the group of Thrashers who solit the cost of the Bounty and now share the 200 million 20% value of the ship being flown by the freshly bountied player.

Yes Concord will swarm about whacking any surviving aggressors in their nice cheap ships. A real deterrent I must say, now that suicide ganking can easily be made super profitable.

And how long is the game supposed to survive with this mechanism in place?

Kill rights only stave off Concord action. A Bounty does not, but can easily be abused to stifle all commerce... for the Lulz of course.

Nice plan.





If the reward payout is greater than the bounty you are only paid the bounty. So in your example a 100,000ISK bounty on someone flying an Obelisk. If they get blown up the parties involved will split the glorious 100,000ISK.
Solarius Elrond
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2012-12-01 23:09:51 UTC

[/quote]

If the reward payout is greater than the bounty you are only paid the bounty. So in your example a 100,000ISK bounty on someone flying an Obelisk. If they get blown up the parties involved will split the glorious 100,000ISK.[/quote]

I see.

Well, thanks for the clarification. (Takes finger off UnSub Button.)

Big smile
Rundle's BountyBroker
Doomheim
#53 - 2012-12-01 23:19:18 UTC
This system should prove to be very interesting!

Do you wish to have retribution while avoiding the consequence of your actions? I'll place that bounty for you! No bounty refused! The original anonymous bounty service of New Eden.
Doddy
Excidium.
#54 - 2012-12-01 23:27:43 UTC
Methelic Mahyisti wrote:
Liner Xiandra wrote:
Methelic Mahyisti wrote:
Liner Xiandra wrote:
Methelic Mahyisti wrote:



Then why are these bounties advertised on the same screen on which CONCORD also appears?.. It's like advertising hits publicly.


Yes. and?

You can also bribe concord to not intervene when attacking other corporations in Hi-Sec. It's called declaring war.
Concord is not some pacifist movement.



Thus there is no point in hisec anyone as you can kill anyone you please.


Welcome to EVE Online



Very funny. So EVE is defined as completely changing its core concept from one day to another?

Okay thank you


How has it defined its core concept when nothing has actually changed? Anyone could pay for you to be ganked before, anyone can pay for you to be ganked now, all they have done is make it streamlined to help create content.
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#55 - 2012-12-01 23:30:18 UTC
I personally look forward to randomly tapping someone on the shoulder and saying..."LOOK AT THAT BOUNTY!" in local...Lol

Signature removed - CCP Eterne
Doddy
Excidium.
#56 - 2012-12-01 23:39:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Doddy
Lance Rossiter wrote:
I think the concept of war is understood well enough that we can recognise a difference between killing during war, and murder. Murder is not legal in EVE simply because war is possible: the existence of a concept of a state of war that can legitimise killing only serves to highlight that under normal circumstances, killing ain't legitimate in high sec, or low sec for that matter.

The silliness of being able able to procure illegal killing through official channels can't be mitigated by pretending that killing is really totally acceptable in Empire. That's even sillier, and not true.


I think you need to look up "murder" and "immortal" tbh. No capsuleers die in eve unless they self bio-mass. Ship crews die but they are not the target of the bounty, and have signed their lives away in a concord approved fashion in any case. Concord simply exists to stop capsuleers destroying civilisation while they are fighting each other. They curb combat by making it expensive, as expense is the only thing a capsuleer has to worry about. This is true whether its a war fee or the loss of ships after a gank.

Sure bounties being payed by out by concord is counter intuitive but they control the monetary system so there is no other way to do it. Similarly "concord" billboards advertise bounty subjects is questionable but ccp could easily change their name or makethem only display people with low sec status.
Christopher Caldaris
Caldaris Enterprises LLC
#57 - 2012-12-02 01:05:12 UTC
Except kill rights are now purchaseable and transferable to whoever you want...
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#58 - 2012-12-02 01:16:47 UTC
Christopher Caldaris wrote:
Except kill rights are now purchaseable and transferable to whoever you want...



Purchasable = /if/ someone gets kill rights on you, they can sell them to someone else.

Not 'I pay some isk and now magically have killrights on this inoffensive freighter pilot who's never shot anyone.'

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Indecisive Cid
Splash Inc.
#59 - 2012-12-10 17:44:08 UTC
Liner Xiandra wrote:
Methelic Mahyisti wrote:



Then why are these bounties advertised on the same screen on which CONCORD also appears?.. It's like advertising hits publicly.


Yes. and?

You can also bribe concord to not intervene when attacking other corporations in Hi-Sec. It's called declaring war.
Concord is not some pacifist movement.



but you CANNOT declare war if they are in an alliance, which I believe is GAY.


so whats the way around that?


how are you supposed to claim anybountie, if they just don't do anything?
IXD
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