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Dev blog: War. War never changes..until it does

First post First post
Author
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#81 - 2012-11-29 20:35:04 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
I really like the geography changes, but I'd really love to see a Siseide -> Kurn link up in there as well. :)

-Liang



We missed you! (Clears throat). I mean.... Where the hell have you been?!?
Ashlynn Tanaka
Generation Bleu
#82 - 2012-11-29 20:35:09 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
Thelonious Blake wrote:
CCP Arrow wrote:
Thelonious Blake wrote:
Bulk purchasing nice GG!

Glad you like it Big smile
Adding in these dropdown menus we call 'Utility Menus' to allow players to quickly and more effectively select options is something we hope to do more of in the near future


Could you please add a search bar for the LP shop - like the one in the inventory? Thank you.


A good suggestion, unfortunately not something we can do for retribution but I will mention it to our programmers :)


+1 for this.

I've been wanting a search option for the LP store for years. Hopefully post-Retribution or the next expansion after that. Big smile
Loki Vice
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#83 - 2012-11-29 20:42:49 UTC
CCP Phantom wrote:
For our upcoming expansion EVE Online: Retribution, to be released on December 4th, we have a bag full of great things and improvements ready for you.

CCP Affinity will inform you now in her latest dev blog about improved bulk purchases from LP Stores, changes to Factional Warfare complexes and NPCs and world shaping changes. You can read the dev blog here.

We welcome you to use this thread for constructive feedback.


two things;

1) I thought it was originally planed for novice plexes to be t1 only? allowing pirate frigates in is going to give them a domain where they can fight and pretty much never die since none of the t1 frigates can go toe to toe with the pirate frigates... Daredevils will be near unkillable.

2) How is this going to affect dog-tags? since most faction mods require an VERY large amount of tags, and now plexes will drop what, max 1 tag?
Ivan Joukov
Soviet System
#84 - 2012-11-29 20:43:04 UTC
You can capture AND stand at 0 now, a lot of nano navy / pirate will disappear and you'll be able to do miracles with T1 brawl range frigates, easier than now in small.

Anyway I'm a bit worried about the afk farm come back with a NPC quick kill then afk button. For everything else it's a bit disappointing but promising, we will see how great it is live :)

 Davai!

Vyktor Abyss
Abyss Research
#85 - 2012-11-29 20:58:54 UTC
Love the bulk purchasing - much needed, especially since you added datacores and other lower priced stuff.

Those stargates mean little to me personally, but I'm all for opening up the warzone more; so yeah nice one.

The plex NPC spawn(s) I'm glad to see the back of Ewar, but it remains to be seen if these impact farming for better or worse (I'm inclined to believe this will make boring plexing even more boring), though the capture point change is definately a plus for us pvpers.

One question came to mind though is if you only get 1 or 2 NPCs, what happens to the loot/tags etc the plex would normally drop?

I assume the spawn drops the equivalent of the whole plex as current in one wreck? Otherwise the items that require tags probably need their tag values changing.

Cheers.

Funless Saisima
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#86 - 2012-11-29 21:06:21 UTC
WTB Bulk purchasing for ship fittings.
Mike deVoid
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#87 - 2012-11-29 21:40:05 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
Mike deVoid wrote:
I updated Buckingham and tried all the plexes out on Sunday. I was able to complete all 4 sizes of site with a t1 frigate: a tristan with hobgoblin IIs, 1 web, 1mn AB, 2x neutron blasters. 156 dps seems a little low ball tbh (since that was all that I had and all that was required).



The NPCs have been rebalanced since Sunday :)


I just went to try it again. I was to repeat my exemplary performance on all but the NPC BC (large site) which reps much harder now.
Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
#88 - 2012-11-29 21:41:30 UTC
I like the changes overall, but I can't help but think that you guys went a bit extreme. Good call on rookie ships, but 1 NPC per PLEX? I wonder if you making this change because you want fighting that NPC to be more like PVP, so it would be as strong as a player ship?

Also the CP seems a bit too close to the warp in point, but that's probably because you don't want all those people who are guarding the warpin to be left out from the payout.

Interesting changes, I think they will result in more ships blown up, which is good.

P.S. The LP store changes affect everyone and they need a lot more work.

The CSM XI Election are now open until March 25th, 2016. Consider Niko Lorenzio for CSM XI.

CSM matters, your voice matters, your vote matters!

fukier
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2012-11-29 21:51:46 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
I really like the geography changes, but I'd really love to see a Siseide -> Kurn link up in there as well. :)

-Liang



We missed you! (Clears throat). I mean.... Where the hell have you been?!?



its summer in down there? so summer vacation?
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
Mike deVoid
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#90 - 2012-11-29 22:10:15 UTC
Niko Lorenzio wrote:
I like the changes overall, but I can't help but think that you guys went a bit extreme. Good call on rookie ships, but 1 NPC per PLEX? I wonder if you making this change because you want fighting that NPC to be more like PVP, so it would be as strong as a player ship?

Also the CP seems a bit too close to the warp in point, but that's probably because you don't want all those people who are guarding the warpin to be left out from the payout.

Interesting changes, I think they will result in more ships blown up, which is good.

P.S. The LP store changes affect everyone and they need a lot more work.


No it's one NPC that has to be killed in order for the timer to begin to count down (this ensure you bring some dps with you). But the NPC itself is weak so that it does interfere with PVP should it occur.
Julius Foederatus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2012-11-29 22:19:20 UTC
Forcing t1 cruisers into the same arena as t2 cruisers is pants on head ********. Seriously, I have not seen a single voice speak up in support of this proposed change since it was first announced, and plenty of people have spoken out against it. What's the rationale behind this change that almost no one wants and a lot of people think should not come in?
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#92 - 2012-11-29 22:24:54 UTC
Kimo Khan wrote:
Ashnazg wrote:
The ship restrictions for novice complexes are hilarious. Faction frigates are of the same level as T2 frigates, yet they are allowed in while the latter arent.


This^^

Faction frigs Pirate or Navy in this section should be removed. Make it T1 frigs only and let the fun begin.

Faction frigs of any type so much overpower T1 frigs that I suspect the downside will be newer players will stop even trying. It will turn into a faction frigate fight and those who cannot afford to lose a faction frigate won't show up.

Keep it plain T1 frigate and I suspect lots more people will show up to pew. The other tiers seem fine,


It was like this before the dessie buff - then the destroyers actually put some fear into the pirate frigs. Now it's rolling back :(
Deen Wispa
Sheriff.
Caldari Tactical Operations Command
#93 - 2012-11-29 22:52:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Deen Wispa
CCP Affinity wrote:
Maz3r Rakum wrote:
A large source of income for me at least came from tags collected while plexing.

Will the new NPC contain a similar amount of tags as before?


Each NPC will have 1-2 tags. We will also be monitoring the tag situation and can adjust drops as necessary


If each plex will only have a total of 2 NPCs, and each NPC will only drop 2 tags maximum, then you greatly reduce the ability for people to collect tags for various mods as well. This is a huge nerf. You've gone from one extreme to the other. I'm fine if the same number of NPCs are there as long as they have lower DPS from them.

And allowing T2 cruisers into a medium plex is poor game design. The only person I've seen support this idea is CCP Fozzie who says he merely wants to gank T2 cruisers with his t1 cruiser


Quote:
Secondly, I hope the option remains to tweak the site balance. I think most of us expected the current Major plexes to become Larges, and I’ve said before there needs to be more opportunities for bigger fights in FW, not just frigate / cruiser combat constantly, though the new plex distribution is a lovely haven for small-scale combat. The ship balancing will contribute to a really fun variety of engagements now that the NPC’s won’t be dictate what we can bring. That being said, with the only place for BC and up combat being what were the old unrestricted plexes and bunker busts, I’m afraid we’re about to see a lot less battlecruiser fights in general.


I agree. I hope CCP fixes the major plexes to require a BC to come in and kill the spawns. Otherwise, not alot of BC fights and it's just bunch of silly frigs/cruisers again.

High Five. Yeah! C'est La Eve .

Gunship
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#94 - 2012-11-29 23:47:09 UTC
Looks really good Shocked *jumps up and down running around screaming CCP rules* Lol

Now will this also impact those missions FW runners in cloaked bombers? (Kinda goes against the pvp idea) StraightAttentionQuestion
Gibbo3771
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#95 - 2012-11-30 00:17:01 UTC
Axl Borlara wrote:
This is my view:


  • Novice complexes now only accept tech1 frigates (rookie ships will be excluded)
  • Small complexes now accept all frigates (including tech 1, tech 2, all pirate/navy variants) plus tech 1 destroyers
  • Medium complexes will accept all frigate and destroyer variations, plus tech 1 cruisers
  • Large complexes will have no ship restrictions


The largest ship type in a plex must be limited to tech 1 only for it to work.
Every ship type has a reasonably balanced area to fight in.

What are the arguments against this?


The fact that making PvP arenas is gay?
Rengerel en Distel
#96 - 2012-11-30 00:24:11 UTC
Gibbo3771 wrote:
Axl Borlara wrote:
This is my view:


  • Novice complexes now only accept tech1 frigates (rookie ships will be excluded)
  • Small complexes now accept all frigates (including tech 1, tech 2, all pirate/navy variants) plus tech 1 destroyers
  • Medium complexes will accept all frigate and destroyer variations, plus tech 1 cruisers
  • Large complexes will have no ship restrictions


The largest ship type in a plex must be limited to tech 1 only for it to work.
Every ship type has a reasonably balanced area to fight in.

What are the arguments against this?


The fact that making PvP arenas is gay?


Isn't that what they're doing mostly with the plexes now? Does including tech 2 somehow make it heterosexual, but not so if they're restricted? With killboards, you can't really have a don't ask, don't tell, as everyone will know you're just flying around in T2 doing leet pvp against T1 ships.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.

Cynthia Nezmor
Nezmor's Golden Griffins
#97 - 2012-11-30 00:37:50 UTC
"We want to move towards a more PvP like environment while still ensuring the complexes cannot be quickly farmed. "

A neutral pilot kills the weak NPCs, then he sends his 4/8 militia alts in triple stabbed, cloaky Condors to run down the timers. With current rules there are farmer alts who run defensive plexes in unarmed ships until you come for them. Then they dock, and their fleet of local "pirates" come to same plex. All for something like 10-20k LP/hour. These changes combined with the LP bonus from higher tiers will mean easy billions/hour AFK farming once again for many players.

Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#98 - 2012-11-30 05:15:35 UTC
Ok you get bonus points for the devblog title and the LP store changes are great and I like the UI tweaks.

I am a supporter of how you are trying to change NPC’s but the feedback in the threads has been fairly consistent in pointing out the exploitable nature of the NPC changes and I still disagree with the plex size changes especially in regards to pirate faction in the novice plexes and T2 cruisers in the mediums. I had really hoped given the rebalancing T1 ships would have a great place but in Novice, Small and Medium plexes it feels they have ships where they cannot compete if that ship chooses to take the plex.

I would have also allowed Rookie ships in the Novice plexes at least; they have been redone and look good. The real issue with defensive plexing is that it is a bad game mechanic can be done in any cheap ship where there is no opposition.

I do not like the button move either, I would have preffered a 10KM zone 30KM form the warp in, I feel a tactical element may be lost where ships are currently fit in a well balanced way for low sec PVP now plexes will be dominated by specific fits designed to overwhelm/shut down any aggressor on the warp in, afterburner HACS and E-war may dominate the Medium and large Plexes

The time between plex waves has no logic behind it, if a player cannot kill the NPC in five or ten minutes then they are not going too, they cannot run the timer so are just sitting in space doing nothing, they are not even farming? The second (and further waves which are required on the longer timers) should always spawn regardless of the first NPC’s destruction.

No mention of the I-hub upgrade changes or the Cynojammer, is that content still planned for development?
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#99 - 2012-11-30 05:33:52 UTC
Julius Foederatus wrote:
Forcing t1 cruisers into the same arena as t2 cruisers is pants on head ********. Seriously, I have not seen a single voice speak up in support of this proposed change since it was first announced, and plenty of people have spoken out against it. What's the rationale behind this change that almost no one wants and a lot of people think should not come in?



Because t2 cruisers are so popular and widely used atm outside of fleet work..

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#100 - 2012-11-30 06:24:05 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Julius Foederatus wrote:
Forcing t1 cruisers into the same arena as t2 cruisers is pants on head ********. Seriously, I have not seen a single voice speak up in support of this proposed change since it was first announced, and plenty of people have spoken out against it. What's the rationale behind this change that almost no one wants and a lot of people think should not come in?



Because t2 cruisers are so popular and widely used atm outside of fleet work..


T2 cruisers are only not used now in majors due to the large amount of NPC damage. There would have been plenty of space for T2 cruisers in a gated larger plex including battlecruisers.