These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

Cruiser Changes Effect on AFs
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Coreola
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2012-11-27 20:53:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Coreola
Just curious what the general thought is on this. The buff AFs "recently" received helped, but now with cruisers getting buffed, is it likely people will still fly AFs?

Jump, jump, jump.
Aria Ta'Rohk
Wildcard.
Boundary Experts
#2 - 2012-11-27 20:57:31 UTC
Of course people will still fly the assualt frigates. They need to in order to fly an Assault Cruiser P !

In all seriousness, however, yes the assault frigs will still be popular and flown extensively. In those situations where you need big tank and high damage but the maneuverability of a frigate, there is no competition.

I'll take 2 carebears to go, with extra tears
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#3 - 2012-11-27 21:01:33 UTC
Dual web rax's will be raping close range af's left and right
Cpt Branko
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-11-28 11:01:50 UTC
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:
Dual web rax's will be raping close range af's left and right


If they're daft enough to engage a competent cruiser in webrange, yes. It's not like a Thorax or any cruiser can actively *hunt* AFs, or that anything fundamental changes, because all cruisers worth undocking in already did kill AFs anyway.
Meditril
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#5 - 2012-11-28 11:13:19 UTC
Since more medium slots are introduced on many ship hulls with the next patch, Assault Frigates (and Frigates in general) will suffer very much from this. Most brawling cruisers will in the future be fitted with dual web, which reduces survivability of frigates within scram range of a cruiser to less than 10 seconds.

Basically we will run into the following situation:
- Brawling cruisers will have dual web and kill every frigate which enter their 10km kill zone immediatelly.
- Kiting cruisers (especially Cynabal) will behave as in the past... they will simply out run assault frigates.

Result: Put your assault frigates back into the relicts box.

BTW: This was exactly the reason why I always advocated that assault frigates should get a "web effect reduction" bonus instead the crappy MWD-bonus they got.
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#6 - 2012-11-28 11:24:57 UTC
Cpt Branko wrote:
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:
Dual web rax's will be raping close range af's left and right


If they're daft enough to engage a competent cruiser in webrange, yes. It's not like a Thorax or any cruiser can actively *hunt* AFs, or that anything fundamental changes, because all cruisers worth undocking in already did kill AFs anyway.


I'd be more worried about twin LSE rax's with TE's blapping me from 20k using neutrons.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#7 - 2012-11-28 12:12:20 UTC
Maeltstome wrote:
Cpt Branko wrote:
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:
Dual web rax's will be raping close range af's left and right


If they're daft enough to engage a competent cruiser in webrange, yes. It's not like a Thorax or any cruiser can actively *hunt* AFs, or that anything fundamental changes, because all cruisers worth undocking in already did kill AFs anyway.


I'd be more worried about twin LSE rax's with TE's blapping me from 20k using neutrons.



Rofl kiting with unbonused medium blasters.. So bad..

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#8 - 2012-11-28 12:28:19 UTC
Aria Ta'Rohk wrote:
[...]In those situations where you need big tank and high damage but the maneuverability of a frigate, there is no competition.

...except they do not have the maneuverability of a frigate.

I should buy an Ishtar.
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#9 - 2012-11-28 12:35:32 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Maeltstome wrote:
Cpt Branko wrote:
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:
Dual web rax's will be raping close range af's left and right


If they're daft enough to engage a competent cruiser in webrange, yes. It's not like a Thorax or any cruiser can actively *hunt* AFs, or that anything fundamental changes, because all cruisers worth undocking in already did kill AFs anyway.


I'd be more worried about twin LSE rax's with TE's blapping me from 20k using neutrons.



Rofl kiting with unbonused medium blasters.. So bad..



That works quite well m8, puts out like 350dps t0 20km more than enough to gank frigates, but i dont get why you would fit dual lse for that, i your caught your dead anyways so tank wont help you so either go web/lase/point/lse for kting or get a cap booster to improve the rather poor cap!


If your afraid of kiiting cruisers in your afs, fear the new omen (more dps than a vaga at 20 km)!!
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-11-28 12:36:07 UTC
Smaller sig, faster, higher resists, better agility, etc. Yes, AFs will still be very viable.
Meditril
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#11 - 2012-11-28 14:51:15 UTC
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:
Smaller sig, faster, higher resists, better agility, etc. Yes, AFs will still be very viable.


Once double webbed there is not much left from your speed... and the problem with signature is even if you have small signature turrents can hit you with full damage if the traversal is low... and traversal tends to be low if you are moving slow and the other ship is also moving slow.
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#12 - 2012-11-28 15:45:55 UTC
Meditril wrote:
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:
Smaller sig, faster, higher resists, better agility, etc. Yes, AFs will still be very viable.


Once double webbed there is not much left from your speed... and the problem with signature is even if you have small signature turrents can hit you with full damage if the traversal is low... and traversal tends to be low if you are moving slow and the other ship is also moving slow.


No thats not true, turrets only hit well when you have 0 tranversal, ab (mwd ones will be boned, but only because than the other ship is faster and can keep transversal at 0) frigates will still laugh at dualweb medium turret ships. Even a vengeance wich will be going 250m/s wont be hit by medium turrets as long as its faster than the target and can keep transversal up! (thats due to the signature radius of guns, medium ones have like 125 which means for the guns the venegance will have a orbit speed of about 1000m/s, more tha enough not to get hit)
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#13 - 2012-11-28 16:56:17 UTC
Eh. Frigates in general (afs as well) having something other than a couple of specific cruisers and dessies be a viable threat to them I think is a good thing all in all.

I see AF's still being flown a lot after expansion.

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#14 - 2012-11-28 17:06:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Zarnak Wulf
Of all the new combat and attack cruisers, only the Rupture and Stabber have utility highs. And the latter really needs to fit launchers there to supplement it's already weak DPS. Most of the attack cruisers with the exception of the Omen (3 mids) will probably be Shield fit. 18- 25k EHP with no webs. The combat cruisers, designed fo brawling, will be dangerous. (Moa and Maller will probably only have one web). If I am in an AF I would probably not try to solo a Rupture or vexor. I would be cautious around a Thorax looking at its speed for clues before I closed.
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#15 - 2012-11-28 17:20:57 UTC
First - AFs have never been able to compete with cruisers on a one for one basis in general. Smaller ships are always disadvantaged in direct combat to compensate for their superior speed and strategic agility (e.g. ability to not get tackled by blobs)

Anyway, cruisers are getting buffed, this much is true. However it's worth noting that pre-Retribution, the metagame heavily emphasizes things that happen to be very good at killing smaller ships. What are the most common battlecruiser and cruiser hulls? Hurricane, Drake, Rupture, (occasionally) AML caracal... all of which are unusually good at dealing with ships smaller than themselves.

With the balance changes you'll see a lot more things that are less intrinsically good at killing frigates. Things that use lasers or don't have a bunch of neuts.
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#16 - 2012-11-28 17:34:17 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
Most of the attack cruisers with the exception of the Omen (3 mids) will probably be Shield fit. 18- 25k EHP with no webs. T.


You do realize that the best new turret nano shield cruiser of them all will be the shield omen right?
Taoist Dragon
Okata Syndicate
#17 - 2012-11-28 20:14:30 UTC
Posting in a hang up all yer frigates thread \o/


Seriously ppl have been killing above class stuff for years despite the bigger ships being 'better' at everything according to some.

Get over it, grow a pair and figure out how to defeat the bigger stuff.

With the teiricide the classes are much more even but guess what they will still die and now more than ever ther is no 'i-win' button in pvp!!

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
Sister Lumi
Doomheim
#18 - 2012-11-28 20:30:17 UTC
Taoist Dragon wrote:
Posting in a hang up all yer frigates thread \o/


Seriously ppl have been killing above class stuff for years despite the bigger ships being 'better' at everything according to some.

Get over it, grow a pair and figure out how to defeat the bigger stuff.

With the teiricide the classes are much more even but guess what they will still die and now more than ever ther is no 'i-win' button in pvp!!


Overreacting yes, but I don't think there's ever been any medium turrets with the new Thorax tracking. Blaster tracking was buffed recently, now it gets the hull bonus and option to fit dual webs. And drones. And speed. It's not exactly the easiest thing for frigs imho.

Anyway, we'll see how things work out when people have couple of months of experience. Fits emerge, counters appear, all we know now is that we have new toys to play with

and break Cool
Aducat Ragnarson
Blootered Bastards
#19 - 2012-11-28 20:41:35 UTC
AF's have the totally awesome t2 resists, coupled with the new logi frigs that will be a huge advantage over the new t1 cruisers.

AF's have smaller sig, better resi and better speed than T1 cruisers and are otherwise pretty much on the same level statwise as t1 cruisers.

HAC's have, you guessed it, smaller sig, better resi and speed than T1 BS's and are otherwise pretty much on the same level statwise as t1 BS's.

Logi supported HAC gang against Logi supported T1 BS gang, guess who wins.

Logi supported AF gang against Logi supported T1 Cruiser gang, guess who wins.
Karmu Ivanostrov
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-11-28 20:51:33 UTC
Aducat Ragnarson wrote:
AF's have the totally awesome t2 resists, coupled with the new logi frigs that will be a huge advantage over the new t1 cruisers.

AF's have smaller sig, better resi and better speed than T1 cruisers and are otherwise pretty much on the same level statwise as t1 cruisers.

HAC's have, you guessed it, smaller sig, better resi and speed than T1 BS's and are otherwise pretty much on the same level statwise as t1 BS's.

Logi supported HAC gang against Logi supported T1 BS gang, guess who wins.

Logi supported AF gang against Logi supported T1 Cruiser gang, guess who wins.


But there are not HML Battleships out there... I will be in my Rapid Light Missile Launcher Bellicose and Caracal hunting AFs I can tell you that xD
12Next page