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Missiles and the future of caldari ships in EVE
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Silk daShocka
Greasy Hair Club
#21 - 2012-11-28 13:23:53 UTC
Mike Whiite wrote:
Silk daShocka wrote:
Mike Whiite wrote:

-Explosion radius increased by 12%

This is nasty bit of it.


Which brings faction heavy missiles to 105m explosion radius with skills @ 5. Still better than medium turrets with their 125m signature resolution.

Fury, will be affected by this for sure, but yet again precision missiles will be even lower than 105m expl radius. It will end up being 180 explosion radius up from 161, not really a big deal (skills @ 5).



Ofcourse you're allowed your oppinion, but the explosion raduis is a different variable than the turret resolution and the explosion radius is a vastly bigger factor in damage calculation than the turret resolution, which is a to hit factor instead of a damage factor.


What you said is accurate, however, your to hit factor with turrets is directly related to your damage factor.

They probably aren't really comparable in the manner I presented them though, I would only assume that a 105m explosion radius is better than having 125m sig resolution, however I don't care enough about heavy missiles to actually do the math tbh.
Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#22 - 2012-11-28 14:09:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Warde Guildencrantz
the only thing that got nerfed are heavies, is the drake the only ship you use, being a complete chince by never fitting HAMs on it? a HAM drake is great.

HAM tengu with javelins will be pretty powerful too.

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us
BuckStrider
Nano-Tech Experiments
#23 - 2012-11-28 14:17:03 UTC
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:
the only thing that got nerfed are heavies, is the drake the only ship you use, being a complete chince by never fitting HAMs on it? a HAM drake is great.

HAM tengu with javelins will be pretty powerful too.


Not in fleet fights.

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Funky Lazers
Funk Freakers
#24 - 2012-11-28 14:19:29 UTC
The things is if something got nerfed it doesn't mean it will suck.
In case of Heavies they were too powerful and I personally think Heavies need more range nerf.
In case of HAMs, they need a range buff, just like torps.

I tested new damage on heavies on a test server and it was fine.
Hope next time they nerf ACs so every race won't be OP.

Whatever.
Sarah Schneider
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2012-11-28 14:36:38 UTC
People always overreact when it comes to nerfs. Just try them (heavy missiles) out in Buckingham, they're still fine albeit the shorter range which is quite fair seeing how ridiculous heavy missiles are in the first place.

HMLs still has the best damage projection out of most (if not all) medium weapon platform. Drake is a bit crappy-er than it used to, but it's still a viable platform for both pve and pvp; Tengu is still the best T3 in terms of versatility in pve areas, with the new buff to T2 HAMs, Tengu even has the highest dps out of all T3s second only to proteus, but with far better range.

As far as dps goes, all HML ships are almost unaffected since the buff to T2 missiles raw damage and GMP practically nullifies the new penalties, to an extent that the nerf effect is so trivial to dps, they don't even matter.

People whom have said they're going to switch races are either opportunist, ignorant, failed at reading comprehension or those who swallowed gossip without first confirming the facts.

PS: Cruise missiles still suck though.

"I'd rather have other players get shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave
Sarah Schneider
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2012-11-28 14:46:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Sarah Schneider
Mike Whiite wrote:
pussnheels wrote:
25% reduction in range for heavy missiles , so instead of 100 k in your tengu it is only 75 k 10% less damage .. okay but did you had a look what they doing with t2 missiles , no penamties and some even a damage increase

OP is making a elephant out of a mouse ,
overlall missiles wil be user friendly and the T2 missiles even better


Although I think the change will be fine and Missiles will survive this nerf.

It be fair to name the total extend of the HM nerf

-Explosion radius increased by 12%

This is nasty bit of it.

you're damage loss against smaller targets is getting a serious nerf.


Though with the reduction of fittings for ham and light missiles launchers and the ubguided missiles becoming guided I think Missiles will survive after the 4th.

Actualy I think HAM and rockets will need a new vieuwing and HM might need that explosion radius a little decreased.

New explosion radius penalties does almost nothing, nerf-wise. Why? please re-read the dev post or better yet, re-read your own post.

Honestly, I don't get why people think this is some major nerf and acted like it's going to be the end of the caldari ship line. It's not. For instance, I'm quite excited about the buff to HAMs since my alt's tengu will be dealing even more dps than the average proteus up to 30km range. No other T3 can do that while still keeping the absurd amount of tank the current tengu has.

"I'd rather have other players get shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave
Sisohiv
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2012-11-28 14:46:36 UTC
Tarn Kugisa wrote:
I'm fine with this all because I can fly all ships below battleship effectively.
I can't however actually fly Gallente or Minnmatar Battleships. I can use their weapons though.


More and more Avatars are becoming Nerf proof.

This nerf has removed a stepping stone for anyone who with low skills and had a focus on Missiles. They were in for a disappointment anyway, when they reached cruise and Torp.

Caldari Rails and superior blaster range is the new doctrine.
Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#28 - 2012-11-28 15:02:15 UTC
BuckStrider wrote:
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:
the only thing that got nerfed are heavies, is the drake the only ship you use, being a complete chince by never fitting HAMs on it? a HAM drake is great.

HAM tengu with javelins will be pretty powerful too.


Not in fleet fights.


not in spam 3000 ship fights no, which is why only maelstroms ever

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us
Kobal81
HR..
#29 - 2012-11-28 15:23:04 UTC
Kali Starchaser wrote:
So, I am hearing VERY discouraging things about the changes to missiles and many people I know are abandoning their caldari ships and starting over training for Gallente or Amarr ships/weapons. I am wondering if someone can 100% clarify these missile changes, and if they are as big of a change as I am hearing will there be an option to transfer the millions of points people have invested in missiles into something else of their choice?



No SP rembursment your SOL >>Reading is fundamental >>>Dev Posts

"Greed, for lack of a better word, is good. Greed is right, greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit"
destiny2
Decaying Rocky Odious Non Evil Stupid Inane Nobody
Looking for Trouble
#30 - 2012-11-28 16:30:05 UTC
simple solution.

If your planning to move to null but still reside, in high sec start training all races to battleship and get al races of t2 large guns. problem solved.
McRoll
Extraction and Exploration Ltd.
#31 - 2012-11-28 16:44:43 UTC
Only those start training for other races, who are unable to fit something else than a cookie- cutter Tengu or Drake and press F1. Heavies won't be as strong as they were before but they were over the top, honestly. I have a Tengu myself and it is ridiculous how it obsoletes other T3 for exploration and WH activities for example. On the other hand light missiles are getting a slight buff and I am very much looking forward to use them in RvB.

So it all depends on what you want to do with missiles and if you are able to put some thought in your fit.
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#32 - 2012-11-28 16:54:25 UTC
Sarah Schneider wrote:
People always overreact when it comes to nerfs. Just try them (heavy missiles) out in Buckingham, they're still fine albeit the shorter range which is quite fair seeing how ridiculous heavy missiles are in the first place.

HMLs still has the best damage projection out of most (if not all) medium weapon platform. Drake is a bit crappy-er than it used to, but it's still a viable platform for both pve and pvp; Tengu is still the best T3 in terms of versatility in pve areas, with the new buff to T2 HAMs, Tengu even has the highest dps out of all T3s second only to proteus, but with far better range.

As far as dps goes, all HML ships are almost unaffected since the buff to T2 missiles raw damage and GMP practically nullifies the new penalties, to an extent that the nerf effect is so trivial to dps, they don't even matter.

People whom have said they're going to switch races are either opportunist, ignorant, failed at reading comprehension or those who swallowed gossip without first confirming the facts.

PS: Cruise missiles still suck though.


I for one will not be switching from Missiles just because of some minor change in game mechanics.
The other mechanics change won't affect my plans for the Gila either.
BuckStrider
Nano-Tech Experiments
#33 - 2012-11-28 17:38:55 UTC  |  Edited by: BuckStrider
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:
BuckStrider wrote:
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:
the only thing that got nerfed are heavies, is the drake the only ship you use, being a complete chince by never fitting HAMs on it? a HAM drake is great.

HAM tengu with javelins will be pretty powerful too.


Not in fleet fights.


not in spam 3000 ship fights no, which is why only maelstroms ever


Now that heavies are getting nerfed, you remove yet another ship from 0.0 pvp

And you wonder why newer players don't want to go to 0.0 and retention is so hard

Can't wait to see how many players give up using bombers because of this new (and really dumb) Micro Jump Drive

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octahexx Charante
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2012-11-28 17:54:55 UTC
just skill up gunnery is my advice.

Once you got all the support skills up you can swap turrets types easily.

Missiles are a isolated tree and your stuck with it.

dont buy the crap ppl say that turrets are worse then missiles,its simply not true and i dont get why they are posting that at all.

Skill gunnery.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#35 - 2012-11-28 18:51:16 UTC
Van Kuzco wrote:
I actually think the new HAMs will clear C1s faster than the old HMs. I'm excited to try it out. Has anyone done so on the test server yet?

Maybe in a C1 you can use HAM, but C5 & C6 will be a huge PITA now as spawns can be well over 140 km away. Even with the increased speed subsystem, it took a HML Tengu a while to get into range, and now it will take even longer *sigh*
Berendas
Ascendant Operations
#36 - 2012-11-28 19:06:50 UTC
Caldari are fine. They have been fine (overpowered in some cases). Caldari-exclusive pilots seem to have a persecution complex about being a bad PVP race, and they are ofc dead wrong. I fly all 4 races in subcap PVP and about half of what I end up flying is Caldari.
Just Lilly
#37 - 2012-11-28 19:12:04 UTC
Like cruiser class launchers is all that caldari has to offer, cmon Roll
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Lance Rossiter
CHAINS Corp
#38 - 2012-11-28 19:53:16 UTC
I think it's also worth bearing in mind that tiercide will be very helpful to certain missile boats, whose hulls were really disadvantageous compared to their gun boat peers. The Kestrel and the Caracal are going to benefit a lot from their reworks, even if the Caracal loses out on its main weapon systems, so hopefully one change will offset the other.

The Drake is in the worst position because it already had a strong hull, but at least it's got the option of using HAMs.

I'm curious what the future will hold for the Cerberus.
BuckStrider
Nano-Tech Experiments
#39 - 2012-11-28 20:00:28 UTC
Berendas wrote:
Caldari are fine. They have been fine (overpowered in some cases). Caldari-exclusive pilots seem to have a persecution complex about being a bad PVP race, and they are ofc dead wrong. I fly all 4 races in subcap PVP and about half of what I end up flying is Caldari.


Yeah those Raven and Rokh fleets are all the rage!

Mine smart. Mine safe. Purchase your mining permit today...... www.minerbumping.com
The Protato
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#40 - 2012-11-28 20:23:54 UTC
Planktal wrote:
Training another race, try Minmatar or Amarr, Gallente will also be dead with the new NPC AI coming in for rats.



Ahahahahahahaha Gallente being used for anything other than blaster PVP...