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Issues, Workarounds & Localization

 
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Drones

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Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#121 - 2011-10-21 12:09:58 UTC
Vaako... lets give them little slack now... If drone fix is in the production pipeline now the goal has been reached. The assembly line is long and got many steps before final product hits tranq. If fix comes before xmas, they've done very decent work.

When you know that something is being done, the waiting isn't that bad.

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Vaako Horizon
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#122 - 2011-10-21 13:24:37 UTC
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
Vaako... lets give them little slack now... If drone fix is in the production pipeline now the goal has been reached. The assembly line is long and got many steps before final product hits tranq. If fix comes before xmas, they've done very decent work.

When you know that something is being done, the waiting isn't that bad.


I'll give it some slack once they confirm they have located the issue and will attempt a fix.
As it is atm we know Greyscale attempted once and failed and then nothing...
I am not saying I want a fix right this minute ( which I ofc want :D :D :D ) but I want to see they are trying even if it is "I tested this for 5min today and found nothing", it would show they are doing something other then just sitting there. ( which ofc they can do regardless as we cant confirm it either way :P )
Vaako Horizon
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#123 - 2011-10-21 13:25:39 UTC
day by day blogs ftw :D haha
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#124 - 2011-10-21 13:29:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Bienator II
Renan Ruivo wrote:
Bienator II wrote:
Renan Ruivo wrote:

It might be that the player gives a command to the drones before the drones themselves can realize what just happened, and then their AI kicks in. As if the player gives a new command to the drone before the drone can check to see if its previous target is dead.

thats a much better way of describing:
Bienator II wrote:
@CCP Greyscale without knowing the code (obviously): this all sounds like a concurrency issue where the "receive player order" action isn't processed for all drones in a critical section. A race condition between game mechanics (agress next target) and the player action.

:)


Not exactly. Were it merely a "race", the player action would supercede the game mechanics. As it is, if the player action is made before the game action, it will get ignored.

So basically if you want it to work without a hitch, you need to allow the game mechanics to win the race because you can never win it yourself.

so you are not aware of the full potential of this bug :) What happens is that a subset of drones decide to attack some other target driven by the AI where the remaining part follows your orders. Thats unpredictable and not focus fire.

in computer science terms a race condition produces unpredictable results. I can bet with you that what is happening is simply that the player action is applied while the AI is applying the AI action to one drone at a time. A critical section would force the "system" to apply all AI drone action at once. In this case ether the AI or the user would win dependent on who was faster but it would never end up dispatching the user action only for a subset of drones (or let the AI overwrite a subset of actions).

anyway i could be wrong but this would be the typical case for such kind of bugs.

now who should win?
the user, always. If she gives an order the AI should never overwrite the order.

its actually quite simple:
- drones fight target
- target dies
- AI picks next target
- user orders drones to engage other target
- ALL drones follow order, AI action is overwritten by user

edit: what happens now is:
- drones fight target
- target dies
- AI picks next target AND user orders drones to engage other target at about the same time -> user and AI actions are interleaved
- SOME drones follow order, SOME other drones follow the AI action

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
CCP Affinity
C C P
C C P Alliance
#125 - 2011-10-21 13:34:52 UTC
Vaako Horizon wrote:
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
Vaako... lets give them little slack now... If drone fix is in the production pipeline now the goal has been reached. The assembly line is long and got many steps before final product hits tranq. If fix comes before xmas, they've done very decent work.

When you know that something is being done, the waiting isn't that bad.


I'll give it some slack once they confirm they have located the issue and will attempt a fix.
As it is atm we know Greyscale attempted once and failed and then nothing...
I am not saying I want a fix right this minute ( which I ofc want :D :D :D ) but I want to see they are trying even if it is "I tested this for 5min today and found nothing", it would show they are doing something other then just sitting there. ( which ofc they can do regardless as we cant confirm it either way :P )



Greyscale is on my team :) We are working on it. The reason for his delayed communication, as he said above, was a conference in a different country. I am currently testing mining drones thoroughly and working with Greyscale and Frellicus to determine what is causing this. I cannot start giving day-by-day diaries of my exact testing but I will, as previously stated, keep this thread updated and keep checking it :)

♥ CCP Affinity ♥

Follow me on Twitter

Game Designer for EVE Online

Team Astro Sparkle
Vaako Horizon
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#126 - 2011-10-21 13:37:54 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
Vaako Horizon wrote:
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
Vaako... lets give them little slack now... If drone fix is in the production pipeline now the goal has been reached. The assembly line is long and got many steps before final product hits tranq. If fix comes before xmas, they've done very decent work.

When you know that something is being done, the waiting isn't that bad.


I'll give it some slack once they confirm they have located the issue and will attempt a fix.
As it is atm we know Greyscale attempted once and failed and then nothing...
I am not saying I want a fix right this minute ( which I ofc want :D :D :D ) but I want to see they are trying even if it is "I tested this for 5min today and found nothing", it would show they are doing something other then just sitting there. ( which ofc they can do regardless as we cant confirm it either way :P )



Greyscale is on my team :) We are working on it. The reason for his delayed communication, as he said above, was a conference in a different country. I am currently testing mining drones thoroughly and working with Greyscale and Frellicus to determine what is causing this. I cannot start giving day-by-day diaries of my exact testing but I will, as previously stated, keep this thread updated and keep checking it :)


See... was that so hard? now keep em coming...
Vaako Horizon
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#127 - 2011-10-21 13:38:45 UTC
oh wait, was that a confirmation that you actually encountered the issues?
CCP Affinity
C C P
C C P Alliance
#128 - 2011-10-21 13:50:31 UTC
Vaako Horizon wrote:
oh wait, was that a confirmation that you actually encountered the issues?



Yes :)

♥ CCP Affinity ♥

Follow me on Twitter

Game Designer for EVE Online

Team Astro Sparkle
Simvastatin Montelukast
DUST Expeditionary Team
Good Sax
#129 - 2011-10-21 14:00:17 UTC
Oh noes!

I may have to actually buy some drones if you fix the problem.
Vaako Horizon
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#130 - 2011-10-21 14:18:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaako Horizon
CCP Affinity wrote:
Vaako Horizon wrote:
oh wait, was that a confirmation that you actually encountered the issues?



Yes :)


And that boys and girls is FACT!! ( and the end of my complaints? )
It now seems its a matter of time, which I am fine with.. ( faster is better pretty please :D :D :D )

OMG, I actually had to "like" his post :D ( my first "like" to someone :D )
Vaako Horizon
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#131 - 2011-10-21 14:31:48 UTC
A request to CCP Affinity, add these issues to the "known issues" section, will hopefully help avoid additional threads about it :P
Mr Hellcat
Apocryphal Solutions
#132 - 2011-10-21 17:31:53 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
Vaako Horizon wrote:
oh wait, was that a confirmation that you actually encountered the issues?



Yes :)


When you actually discover the problem could you gives us a run down as to why it was happening? I am just curious if my observations are correct or if I was just out in left field somewhere.

Thanks!
Svaste
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#133 - 2011-10-21 21:30:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Svaste
I have faith that CCP Affinity is on the case and will solve the issue.

I want to thank everyone who read and posted in this thread and the threads on the old forums. I am especially greatful for the videos and those who took the time to spell out how to reproduce the error and filed bug reports.

As I understand it Affinity has confirmed this is not a stealth nerf functioning as intended and has been reproduced on CCP's end to confirm.

IMO Affinity is delivering on the promise in Hilmar's recent letter.

Thank you all.
Barbelo Valentinian
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#134 - 2011-10-21 23:45:59 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
Vaako Horizon wrote:
oh wait, was that a confirmation that you actually encountered the issues?



Yes :)


Much appreciated, keep us posted if you can!
Vaako Horizon
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#135 - 2011-10-22 07:30:22 UTC
Mr Hellcat wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:
Vaako Horizon wrote:
oh wait, was that a confirmation that you actually encountered the issues?



Yes :)


When you actually discover the problem could you gives us a run down as to why it was happening? I am just curious if my observations are correct or if I was just out in left field somewhere.

Thanks!



I also would like to know why/how it happens :D
Vaako Horizon
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#136 - 2011-10-22 07:33:46 UTC
Svaste wrote:
I have faith that CCP Affinity is on the case and will solve the issue.

I want to thank everyone who read and posted in this thread and the threads on the old forums. I am especially greatful for the videos and those who took the time to spell out how to reproduce the error and filed bug reports.

As I understand it Affinity has confirmed this is not a stealth nerf functioning as intended and has been reproduced on CCP's end to confirm.

IMO Affinity is delivering on the promise in Hilmar's recent letter.

Thank you all.


No stealth nerf = check
Reproduced = check

Which is GREAT... only thing that is sad is that it had to take several months to get to those 2 answers :P
Other then that, GO GO GO CCP Affinity :D :D :D
Svaste
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#137 - 2011-10-24 16:37:55 UTC


Quote:
Build 304168 to 306979 addresses Patch notes for Incarna 1.1.3

To be released Tuesday, October 25, 2011.


Sadly, the patch notes do not mention drones at all.

http://www.eveonline.com/updates/patchnotes.asp
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#138 - 2011-10-24 16:42:18 UTC
Svaste wrote:


Quote:
Build 304168 to 306979 addresses Patch notes for Incarna 1.1.3

To be released Tuesday, October 25, 2011.


Sadly, the patch notes do not mention drones at all.

http://www.eveonline.com/updates/patchnotes.asp

Are you aware of how long the development cycle of even bug fixes in eve? Shocked

I'll be happy if its in the winter expansion Cool

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Vaako Horizon
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#139 - 2011-10-24 17:28:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaako Horizon
Svaste wrote:


Quote:
Build 304168 to 306979 addresses Patch notes for Incarna 1.1.3

To be released Tuesday, October 25, 2011.


Sadly, the patch notes do not mention drones at all.

http://www.eveonline.com/updates/patchnotes.asp


I fully expect it to be ignored/forgotten... mostly because I have yet to see CCP deliver on their words... ( and ofc that I am a little negative in general :D, better to expect nothing and be happy when you get something then expect something and never get it )
Its 3 days since CCP's confirmation about these issues and not a single word from Affinity, Greyscale or Frellicus.

And even if they resolv the issues that patch itself will most likely not be released until something else is.
Despite that these fixes should have been out long ago :P
Its "nice" to see them fix the overview issues so fast when the drones issues are just as big but way WAY down the list :P
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#140 - 2011-10-24 21:52:16 UTC
Vaako Horizon wrote:
Svaste wrote:


Quote:
Build 304168 to 306979 addresses Patch notes for Incarna 1.1.3

To be released Tuesday, October 25, 2011.


Sadly, the patch notes do not mention drones at all.

http://www.eveonline.com/updates/patchnotes.asp


I fully expect it to be ignored/forgotten... mostly because I have yet to see CCP deliver on their words... ( and ofc that I am a little negative in general :D, better to expect nothing and be happy when you get something then expect something and never get it )
Its 3 days since CCP's confirmation about these issues and not a single word from Affinity, Greyscale or Frellicus.

And even if they resolv the issues that patch itself will most likely not be released until something else is.
Despite that these fixes should have been out long ago :P
Its "nice" to see them fix the overview issues so fast when the drones issues are just as big but way WAY down the list :P

They are just humans, not robots. 3 days is nothing. I would start getting worried after 3 months. Relax and chill already.

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