EVE General Discussion

Right. Now consider that we're those punters who are paying these artists; who you would you rather go and watch Jeff Beck or Julian Beiber?

Just because Beiber is more popular does that you would be like the Bieber boppers? As I say, just because they have the numbers it doesn't mean that they are following the better product.

I, for example, produce something in the Real World as a living. It's one of the best products of its kind in the field but it doesn't have the number of subscribers that my competitors have. Not by a long chalk. There's a reason for this, and this in a way mirrors Eve; my product demands that my customers do a bit of thinking for themselves. I am happy to make it so and would I be better off if I made my product for the Great Unwashed? Yes, I would by far. But would I enjoy doing what I would then do? No.

Bigger is not always better. You simply cannot look at numbers and say that Product A is better than Product B because they have more subscribers.

I have done Everquest, I have done Asheron's Call, I have done World of Warcraft but the depth, the scope and the immersion of these don't come anywhere close to what Eve Online offers.

To say that Eve is not as good as the others because fewer people play it is utterly misguided and any attempts to make Eve like the aforementioned would be a very unwise move indeed.

Rock&Roll will never die!

Just a note to those people complaining about carebears, without bears who would there be to gank in highsec (and lowsec when they blindly stumble out of their enclosure) and to harvest delicious and sought after tears from?

Get a talos BC hull with BS sized fun ...

Oh and please let me know if you plan on mission running on an RvB toon with a Command ship oh and what system

Video games are a weird genre. I can go out on a Friday night and slap down $10 in a friendly poker game. And if I lose it, it's like no sweat. Pretty common thing. And blow $100 bucks on a weekend out at a casino now and then? Again, no big deal for most people.

And that's "Player vs Player" gameplay, btw.

But blow 100 mil on a ship(worth like what, $3 worth of Plex?) and people rage quit. Hell. people blow $175 on an average trip to Vegas(Google it). That's what, 5 billion worth of isk in Eve?

I didn't say there wasn't any pvp in trading , but if you are "just" clicking buy or sell you are using whatever price the market is at. Selling something to someone is not pvp, there is no versus involved (unless its a scam in which case it is pvp, but then you haven't just pressed sell). The real pvp in trade is between traders, and to compete with each other in trade you need to do more than "just" press buy and sell, you need to set orders.

But this isn't a true multi-player sandbox. It's more like a simulator/sandbox. The simulator part is there to maintain the sandbox. So in this case, we can call CONCORD part of the simulator. If this were say Firefly, the core worlds would be well guarded. If this were Star Trek, Federation worlds would be well guarded. EVE is no different, by use of CONCORD is able to somewhat maintain the simulation of such an environment as is common in sci-fi stories. And of course you don't find suicide ganking in those settings, as people die and don't come back five minutes later. A pure sandbox is completely unrealistic in a video game setting, not unless you introduce perma-death.

Well it's part of the coding to make it a simulated environment in a sandbox. Yeah, it's not perfect. I do think though that it could be safer, but not as an all or nothing system under the current way of doing things.

The original idea, at least as for popularized sandbox mmo's, was player justice. Garriott and the gang said "let there be player justice" and it was so; but it was without form and void. Sure, guards were a whacking, red names were a multiplying, but there were no real checks and balances to keep it civil for many o players and they rage quit; the player-justice players were just too overwhelmed to protect the lands. The response was to create Trammel (non pvp lands), which for a time increased population, but that changes with the introduction of the AoS expansion making the game item based and making it even harder to PvP due to equipment expense. UO is but a shadow now.

Then came SWG, and they said "let there be TEF" (temporary enemy flag), and it was good. And they said "let there be a bounty hunter system" and it was amazing (tools to hunt down Jedi for depopulation measures). While one camp said "give us more" let us bounty hunt non-Jedi etc, another camp complained and rage quit over what was. So came the CU, and PvP was injured. Then came the abomination of desolation, and all the furious rage that came with NGE. Thus SWG died and is seen no more.

So yes, I'm not for hisec becoming 100% safe, in fact CONCORD could be scaled down a little possibly, but only with an actual working player justice system in which many enough players participate. And really one that doesn't shun PvP but promotes a deeper PvP, not only in hisec but spilling out into all parts of the game world, but originating in hisec.

I think SWG had it right at the start, a BH system with tracking tools, a TEF system that would make no player safe from pvp ..apart form neutrals but there was little content there to be neutral while most of the game came with joining the imperial or rebel faction, not neutral faction. Now, combining these two systems, minus factional conditions, but based on negative actions, well I think would produce the desired results for a game world like EVE, and the ability to police actions with the use of player justice to a greater extent compared to an NPC simulated justice system. Still a use for CONCORD, but giving a chance of escape so that local players near the crime scene can react against the perpetrator, and players with BH style tracking tools to track them to even the furthest reaches of new eden to carry out consequences of such heinous acts. Heck, it doesn't even need to by a high bounty, it's the hunt that often draws the player to the job, provided it's a living.

CCP is kind of moving in this direction, but maybe not the whole way; as was the problem with UO at the start, it takes considerable development time. SWG's problem was they were just nuts, that's SOE for ya. But I do think hisec could be safer, but the trick is to not make it void of PvP but to encourage it. Actual PvP mind you. I suppose if the mmo world wasn't fixated on themepark games, we'd have more examples to draw from. But as it is, at least it's a step up from UO in many respects.

That is definitely one of the more informed posts on the subject that I've seen on this forum and I would encourage other players to reflect on it regardless of what their own stance on the issue is.

Yeah, it looks like CCP may just be taking steps in the right direction; that is, further empowering players rather than restricting them. How far will they take it and how will it work out in the end? Too early to say, I suppose, so we'll see.

because the pvp is a skilless joke and lame mechanics like frigates bumping freighters continue to exist. Also the community is full of immature no-life losers who think their ability to annoy others while under the protection of concord is the best thing ever.