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[Ushra'Khan] And so to war

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Sumdumgi
Ice Fire Warriors
#21 - 2012-11-27 22:39:32 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Eterne
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
KPP, the initiators of this war...


FALSE

Poetic Stanziel wrote:
[KPP] want a very particular reputation: ***** of the Minmatar


FACT


From what I am gathering from some of the previous communications is that LNA should be forced to cooperating (sharing livelihood) with any guy with a purple star who comes into a plex "defensively scouting" (and burning to the capture point) as well as put up with local banter attacking/slandering members of the alliance and not to mention just sitting idly by while pod pilots, who have not been instructed by their training corp/alliance in overview set ups, destroy our ships?

I believe some of UK think this is single isolated incident far behind enemy lines where no attempts at communication/interaction were made. This has, in my opinion, been a slow burn that finally reached some oxygen to bring it to life.

LNA is a proud alliance full of pod pilots who regularly cooperate with other militia corps/alliances to engage in aggressive violencing of Amarr ships and assets while KEEPING the foothold across enemy lines and protecting access to Militia interests. We do things very differently than most, and many cannot function in the environment in which we thrive. We make no apologies for it.

The passion in which we fight and defend our interests will come out in our actions toward anyone who may threaten it.

Nothing is beyond diplomacy. But, in my opinion, UK and its subsidiaries needs to take a stronger roll in instilling better training and basic common sense principles in some of their (newer?) pilots. I am pretty sure we don't need to like you as a pilot to shoot Amarr next to you, but I don't believe we can fight next to someone who points a gun at our enemy with us while knifing us in the back.

Wars happen where diplomacy [and accountability] fails. Where lessons must be learned, a teacher must step up.

Sum

Removed some mentions of strange terms not found in New Eden. - CCP Eterne
Ugleb
Jotunn Risi
#22 - 2012-11-27 23:01:13 UTC
Sumdumgi wrote:
Wars happen where diplomacy [and accountability] fails. Where lessons must be learned, a teacher must step up.


Very true, but given that your diplomat refused to entertain any attempt at diplomacy, I'm not sure what else we can do.

ShahFluffers wrote:
We were bored. And get easily agitated/trigger-happy/drunk. Do we really need better reasons?


That seems to be a more accurate assessment of LNA's rationale for all of this.

http://uglebsjournal.wordpress.com/

The Jotunn Risi are now recruiting, Brutor ancestry required in order to best represent the Brutor interest.  Join channel JORIS to learn more!
Vordak Kallager
Descendance.
GoonSwarm.
#23 - 2012-11-27 23:07:19 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Vordak Kallager wrote:
Why did I leave LNA? A change of scenery is often the best cure for Bittervet Syndrome. How did I leave LNA? On the best of terms.

Good luck to both U'K and LNA in resolving this conflict.
You're the one being politically expedient. Considering what Pinky quoted from you above, and considering you never liked KPP forcing wardecs on the rest of the alliance, why you left is pretty clear.

Just a few weeks ago, you couldn't be happier as AUTOZ. Sudddenly, you're afflicted with bittervet syndrome. More likely you were afflicted with KPP Syndrome. :)


Believe what you like, cupcake.

My quote from above still stands. The Minmatar Militia is one of the most inter-connected and glued together of any of the militias.

Sa souvraya niende misain ye.
Gritz1
Ice Fire Warriors
#24 - 2012-11-27 23:10:15 UTC
I have not been contacted about this issue, I handle the standings and diplomatic issues for LNA.
Thorvik
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2012-11-27 23:18:26 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
We were bored. And get easily agitated/trigger-happy/drunk. Do we really need better reasons?


Also... U'K tends to take things WAAAAYYYY more seriously than they should. Just go with the flow, enjoy the extra targets, and laugh with us.


Here we have exhibit A proving that we are way too serious:

Sumdumgi wrote:
From what I am gathering from some of the previous communications is that LNA should be forced to cooperating (sharing LP / livelihood) with any guy with a purple star who comes into a FW plex "defensively scouting" (and burning to the capture point) as well as put up with local banter attacking/slandering members of the alliance and not to mention just sitting idly by while pod pilots, who have not been instructed by their training corp/alliance in overview set ups, destroy our ships?


oh wait. He's not in U'K. Blink

I don't believe the pilot in question was indeed burning for the capture point. He was, from my understanding, simply scouting. ie. Jumped into plex to see what the situation was. Pilot then left. Should LNA decide to take aggressive action then the pilot should defend him or herself to the best of their ability.

IF he smalk talked in Local then perhaps you can provide the logs to our diplomat. As your diplomat has decided to not to speak with us with regards to any matters, perhaps you can relay to them our interest in sorting this out.

I have no interest in fighting two wars. We are a people at war with the slavers. Why anyone would want to start a two front war just for ***** and giggles is beyond me.

You state, with much emphasis, that KPP is not the initiator of the war, yet LNA was alliance that started the wardec. Do you deny this is the case or has LNA found other reasons to war dec us. We perhaps are flying too close to certain planets?
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2012-11-27 23:40:45 UTC
Vordak Kallager wrote:
The Minmatar Militia is one of the most inter-connected and glued together of any of the militias.
This thread is the proof of that, right? Shocked
Sumdumgi
Ice Fire Warriors
#27 - 2012-11-27 23:41:07 UTC
[23:29:05] JOhnDrees > your dumbass leader wanted to start a war because one of our noobs made a mistake

Just taken from local Flos.


When you make a mistake, you might try owning it...and then making amends. It can work.

I have referred the UK guys in TLF to talk with Gritz1. They said they would. Not sure if something can be read into them not contacting him yet.
Braitai
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2012-11-28 01:42:45 UTC
Thorvik wrote:
I wasn't there but I believe the post above stated that the pilot in question was scouting.


The rules of engagement offered by Concord includes rewards for taking certain actions in the empyrean war. Our pilot had completed 95% of what was required to attain that reward. Your pilot chose to come in at the last moment and take credit for it.

Quote:
Perhaps, Braitai, you should grow up a little before you fight in the wars of men. Becoming a Capsuleer doesn't, regrettably, imbue men with common sense when all the knowledge is pumped into our heads.


Assets are replaceable. There is nothing to fear from this war-dec except the exposition of your own weaknesses. The Amarr are beginning to form up, but they have a long way to go before they make serious in-roads.

This is not a real "war". The empyrean war is not meant to be won, Concord have not laid out any victory conditions. So why do you whelps thrash about here on IGS? Your behavior is unbecoming of the Minmatar Militia.

For Amarr, Unity comes from their beliefs. For Minmatar, it comes from respect, and right now we do not respect you. What you desire is a false unity, diplomacy is not needed among friends.

Your pilot was at fault. Fight until we have had our fill, or hide in station until we become bored. At the very least, show respect. Own your mistake, and stop insulting pilots who have contributed so much to our victories over the years. Few pilots have done more for the Militia than Bahamut420.
Thorvik
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2012-11-28 04:03:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Thorvik
Braitai wrote:
The rules of engagement offered by Concord includes rewards for taking certain actions in the empyrean war. Our pilot had completed 95% of what was required to attain that reward. Your pilot chose to come in at the last moment and take credit for it.


Our pilot, likely, would not have know that it was 95% complete until he actually entered the plex or did you find some mechanic that indicated the time left on a site from the jump gate?

We don't fear the wardec. We think it's asinine. What moron would wardec their own militia when there are others to fight.

Braitai wrote:
Your behavior is unbecoming of the Minmatar Militia.


Once again. Grow up. Your behaviour is unbecoming of a man.

Braitai wrote:
For Amarr, Unity comes from their beliefs. For Minmatar, it comes from respect, and right now we do not respect you. What you desire is a false unity, diplomacy is not needed among friends.


Trust me in this. We have no respect for you as you, quite rightly, indicate that respect is won, not given. Your behaviour is that of children, not of soldiers or pilots.

Braitai wrote:
Your pilot was at fault.


In your opinion. But this goes back to that childish behaviour. "Mama, he hit me first!" Is something I hear from children in the yard but not from men.

Braitai wrote:
...stop insulting pilots who have contributed so much to our victories over the years. Few pilots have done more for the Militia than Bahamut420.


I never insulted Bahamut. I flew in militia years ago when both Bahamut and I were but fledgling pilots. I know what he's capable of and also of his nature.
Phobos Eversor
Order of the Black Dagger
#30 - 2012-11-28 04:14:56 UTC
Braitai wrote:

LNA has always punished both mistakes and treachery with brute, uncompromising force regardless of the material amount involved. It weeds out the weak, separating those who will learn from those who are not suited to be our allies.


You want to talk about treachery? LNA just dropped a Battleship fleet with Archon support on top of the U'K fleet attempting to liberate Floseswin. 3 U'K pilots died respecting the cease-fire brokered between U'K and LNA.
Braitai
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2012-11-28 04:21:52 UTC
Thorvik wrote:
Our pilot, likely, would not have know that it was 95% complete until he actually entered the plex or did you find some mechanic that indicated the time left on a site from the jump gate?


He burned to the button after being asked to leave. Being at the warp-in does not qualify you for the reward.

Quote:
In your opinion.


Not my opinion. Fact. Your newer pilots have been awoxing us and stealing rewards off and on for months. As Sumdumgi pointed out, this is not an isolated incident.

Sumdumgi wrote:
I believe some of UK think this is single isolated incident far behind enemy lines where no attempts at communication/interaction were made. This has, in my opinion, been a slow burn that finally reached some oxygen to bring it to life


Quote:
I never insulted Bahamut.


Your alliance mates have.
M0220H
Ice Fire Warriors
#32 - 2012-11-28 05:02:04 UTC
Sumdumgi wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
KPP, the initiators of this war...


FALSE

Poetic Stanziel wrote:
[KPP] want a very particular reputation: Dicks of the Minmatar


FACT



Who wants to see my KPP tattoo?
Braitai
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2012-11-28 05:17:09 UTC
Phobos Eversor wrote:
Braitai wrote:

LNA has always punished both mistakes and treachery with brute, uncompromising force regardless of the material amount involved. It weeds out the weak, separating those who will learn from those who are not suited to be our allies.


You want to talk about treachery? LNA just dropped a Battleship fleet with Archon support on top of the U'K fleet attempting to liberate Floseswin. 3 U'K pilots died respecting the cease-fire brokered between U'K and LNA.


There was no cease-fire.
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#34 - 2012-11-28 05:24:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Hans Jagerblitzen
Ugleb wrote:
It is clear to us that the only true victors in all of this shall be the Amarr. We are frustrated by LNA's actions but unsurprised as they have a history of aggression and intimidation against other members of the TLF. At this point we consider diplomacy to have run its course, any peaceful resolution is now entirely in the hands of LNA. We shall actively defend our pilots and their interests against LNA aggression and take whatever steps we deem necessary to achieve that.


A bold statement, good sir. By invoking language of civil war and directly referencing our mutual enemy be aware that you are essentially declaring one of two things. Either:

- That Ushra'Khan will somehow stand in the way of Late Night Alliance's attempts to take and hold space on behalf of the Minmatar Militia, providing a meaningful interruption in our regular military actions and allowing the Amarrians to make progress in the turbulent days ahead

OR

- That any LNA interference with your military actions will somehow lead to the downfall of the Minmatar Militia, which not-so-subtly implies that Ushra'Khan is the force holding back an inevitable Amarrian onslaught.

Frankly, as a lifelong loyalist to the Republic - I find your lack of faith in our people disturbing. At best, you fail to recognize an inherent strength that no dispute between our tribes could waver. At worst, you are engaging in what is commonly known as "propaganda" and using rumor of civil war to stir up sympathy from unaffiliated Matari brethren and use them to your own advantage.

I wasn't there when this latest war broke out, I don't know why it started, and frankly I don't really care. I take my orders from Bahamut420, whose track record of success is undeniable even by your own Alliance. What I do know is this:

- This war will not be harming the Minmatar Militia's long-term strategic goals in any way, shape, or form. Bahamut is no fool.

HOWEVER

- This war will be a lot of fun. Twisted

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
Galdornae
Ice Fire Warriors
#35 - 2012-11-28 05:25:07 UTC
Phobos Eversor wrote:
Braitai wrote:

LNA has always punished both mistakes and treachery with brute, uncompromising force regardless of the material amount involved. It weeds out the weak, separating those who will learn from those who are not suited to be our allies.


You want to talk about treachery? LNA just dropped a Battleship fleet with Archon support on top of the U'K fleet attempting to liberate Floseswin. 3 U'K pilots died respecting the cease-fire brokered between U'K and LNA.


No such agreed upon cease fire existed. Ushra'Khan diplomats who contacted LNA officials were told specifically that they could not promise a cease-fire. When Lowhyres contacted LNA diplomat Gritz1, he was told that:

[ 2012.11.28 02:25:30 ] Gritz1 > I would not count on our assistance mate. We were told yesterday that we would not be shooting each other in flos specifically - I was told baha was shot today in flos - i dont know what happened
[ 2012.11.28 02:27:16 ] Gritz1 > ill do my best but honestly i do not know what is going to happen, im trying
[ 2012.11.28 02:27:22 ] Gritz1 > but im not the boss.

Any assumption by UK leadership that a cease-fire was in effect was in error. It should go with out saying that any previously standing informal agreement (there was NO formal cease-fire at any point) would be void when UK pilots destroyed our fearless leader Bahamut's cynabal in Floseswin while he was assisting the effort to take the system. You cannot expect such treacherous acts to go unpunished.

For a the entire story behind LNA's glorious capture of Floseswin, please read this Mission Report by our elite specialist Braitai.
Amun Khonsu
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#36 - 2012-11-28 05:35:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Amun Khonsu
Gald beat me to it ^^

See his mission report.

Fight them until turmoil is no more and strike terror into their hearts. www.ross-fw.net
Galdornae
Ice Fire Warriors
#37 - 2012-11-28 06:06:53 UTC
"I bring you war. I am a river unto my people." -Bahamut420
Jessie Arr
Order of the Black Dagger
#38 - 2012-11-28 06:10:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Jessie Arr
Galdornae wrote:
[ 2012.11.28 02:25:30 ] Gritz1 >[...] - i dont know what happened
[ 2012.11.28 02:27:16 ] Gritz1 > [...] i do not know what is going to happen
[ 2012.11.28 02:27:22 ] Gritz1 > [...] im not the boss.


A perfect summary of LNA's diplomatic performance over the last 6 months, sadly. "I don't know what's going on, and I don't care enough to confirm, but someone told me you were a jerk so now we're enemies!"


As always, a classy display from LNA. But you're mistaken if you think that the traitorous disruption of our attempts to take an Amarrian system will discourage us in any way, either from further efforts to continue crippling the Amarrian war machine as we have done in the Floseswin area over the last week, or in our war against you, who mysteriously choose to aid them.


We are Ushra'Khan...
And no matter who stands in our way,
We come for our people!

Order of the Black Dagger is a corp based around a simple goal: getting as much small gang PvP as we can handle. We accept USTZ PvP pilots of all skill levels.
Thorvik
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2012-11-28 06:22:17 UTC
[quote=Hans Jagerblitzen]

A bold statement, good sir. By invoking language of civil war and directly referencing our mutual enemy be aware that you are essentially declaring one of two things. Either:

- That Ushra'Khan will somehow stand in the way of Late Night Alliance's attempts to take and hold space on behalf of the Minmatar Militia, providing a meaningful interruption in our regular military actions and allowing the Amarrians to make progress in the turbulent days ahead

OR

- That any LNA interference with your military actions will somehow lead to the downfall of the Minmatar Militia, which not-so-subtly implies that Ushra'Khan is the force holding back an inevitable Amarrian onslaught.

[\quote]

I took you for a smart person. I guess I was wrong. This war dec serves only one thing. Your egos.

The dissent your action sows, weakens the militia and strengthens the resolve of the enemy. Sure, they currently are only just building their strength, but your actions do nothing to aid our side and, in fact, damages any future joint operations within many Militia corps and alliances as they will inevitably take sides.

I will repeat what I stated above. Grow up.
Thorvik
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2012-11-28 06:26:18 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Eterne
Galdornae wrote:
Snipped a deleted post - CCP Eterne


So let me get this straight.

Galdornae wrote:
No such agreed upon cease fire existed. Ushra'Khan diplomats who contacted LNA officials were told specifically that they could not promise a cease-fire.


No cease-fire was agreed upon

You declared war on us

Bahamut is now butthurt over being shot at by WTs?