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The Gallente Problem II

Author
Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
Stay Feral
#81 - 2012-11-27 21:24:05 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
so we could live with Empire in harmony as allies and friends.


You can't seriously be this stupid, can you?

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Diana Kim
Kenshin Katana.
United Caldari Space Command.
#82 - 2012-11-27 21:26:50 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
This sounds like a mindclash game waiting to happen!

nah, it will be biochemistry :)

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#83 - 2012-11-27 21:28:46 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
This sounds like a mindclash game waiting to happen!

nah, it will be biochemistry :)


This sounds like a bad horror science fiction movie waiting to happen!
Natalcya Katla
Astropolitan Front
#84 - 2012-11-27 22:33:47 UTC
Streya Jormagdnir wrote:
This is because it is irrelevant how physically healthy an individual is when they are born, through whatever means, if they are born into slavery. The physical body is but a single defining aspect of an individual's whole identity, and a pretty small one at that.

The assumption that the child is born into "slavery" of whichever kind is not inherent to my argument. My argument applies to every modern society. In fact, if anything it applies even more to loosely governed societies such as your own.

You, Captain, are attacking a strawman. Please improve your verbal aim.
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#85 - 2012-11-27 22:51:06 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
This sounds like a mindclash game waiting to happen!

nah, it will be biochemistry :)


Oh, this will be exciting! I will happily provide my services as an impartial mediator, if both of you agree and prefer. I have just the topic in mind, too!
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#86 - 2012-11-28 02:27:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitcher
Hold on now. Her reason for challenging me to this idiotic contest was, quote: "Are you sure you know more than a military officer?"

Now, quite aside from the fact that I held the rank of Major in the Ishukone Watch before I retired, military rank has zero bearing on the quality of a person's education in biochemistry. That's equivalent to a Tastoitsu teacher getting all offended when I point out my superior knowledge of hydromagnetic physics. The two fields are unrelated.

As such the challenge is a farce, and I refuse it on the grounds that I don't see anything to be gained from humiliating her in a private arena when I'm already doing a perfectly good job of it in the public one.

Quote:
What did Empire did to you?


Their stated intention is to Reclaim the whole of New Eden and unite it under their one religion, effectively making the whole cluster Amarr. As such, they pose a greater existential threat to the State than the Federation does. Their values are incompatible with the survival of the State, and they make no secret of the fact that they consider us to be "wayward children" in need of salvation.

"Salvation" meaning the destruction of the State, the burning of its literature, the suppression of its philosophy, the eradication of its heritage and the assimilation and indoctrination of its people, exactly as they attempted to do with the Minmatar. It's what the Empire exists for, it's Amarr's long-term strategic objective and they are completely unapologetic about it. Indeed, they feel that they are perfectly right and moral for intending to do so.

If somebody ever seriously threatened my sister, I would destroy them; instantly and without mercy. And if anybody were to ask me concerning this foolish individual "what did he ever do to you?" then they'd be next in line for a slap round the head. We should be taking exactly as hard a line with the Empire and with the people who ask "What did they ever do to us?" for the simple reason that they already have threatened us.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Rinai Vero
Blades of Liberty
#87 - 2012-11-28 02:29:52 UTC
Scherezad wrote:
Rinai Vero wrote:
Its even the opposite of what State propaganda teaches their people about the Gallente. Someone needs to go back to their corporate indoctrination center and take a refresher course.


How do you know what we are teaching in our military academies?


I'm sure you realize that graduates of the State War Academy often find themselves in non-Caldari aligned Corporations or Alliances. Aside from that, its amazing what some will tell a pretty girl in a bar. Loose lips, ect ect.

Even aside from what is taught in Caldari Military acads, State entities hardly make a secret of their public stance on Gallente society. To do so rather defeats the purpose of propaganda.
Diana Kim
Kenshin Katana.
United Caldari Space Command.
#88 - 2012-11-28 17:40:23 UTC
Scherezad wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
This sounds like a mindclash game waiting to happen!

nah, it will be biochemistry :)


Oh, this will be exciting! I will happily provide my services as an impartial mediator, if both of you agree and prefer. I have just the topic in mind, too!

I would consider it an honor! However, I don't think he can back any of his words and all this is just meaningless.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Diana Kim
Kenshin Katana.
United Caldari Space Command.
#89 - 2012-11-28 18:01:38 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
Hold on now. Her reason for challenging me to this idiotic contest was, quote: "Are you sure you know more than a military officer?"

Now, quite aside from the fact that I held the rank of Major in the Ishukone Watch before I retired, military rank has zero bearing on the quality of a person's education in biochemistry. That's equivalent to a Tastoitsu teacher getting all offended when I point out my superior knowledge of hydromagnetic physics. The two fields are unrelated.

As such the challenge is a farce, and I refuse it on the grounds that I don't see anything to be gained from humiliating her in a private arena when I'm already doing a perfectly good job of it in the public one.

1. You said you had 'doctorate-equivalent qualifications' in some sort of scientific field, while I have only military qualifications.
2. I challenged you, because you dared to say, that you understand how it works in ways that I don't.
3. Giving such ridiculous claims, you did no attempt to stand on your ground.
4. I gave you a chance to confront me in scientific field
5. You declined, that makes your statement not only false, but makes them backfire at you instead.
6. Since you brought in taistoiitsu (I hope you will learn to write the word correctly someday), you can try to challenge me. But believe me, it won't end good for you.

Stitcher wrote:

Quote:
What did Empire did to you?


Their stated intention is to Reclaim the whole of New Eden and unite it under their one religion, effectively making the whole cluster Amarr. As such, they pose a greater existential threat to the State than the Federation does. Their values are incompatible with the survival of the State, and they make no secret of the fact that they consider us to be "wayward children" in need of salvation.

"Salvation" meaning the destruction of the State, the burning of its literature, the suppression of its philosophy, the eradication of its heritage and the assimilation and indoctrination of its people, exactly as they attempted to do with the Minmatar. It's what the Empire exists for, it's Amarr's long-term strategic objective and they are completely unapologetic about it. Indeed, they feel that they are perfectly right and moral for intending to do so.

If somebody ever seriously threatened my sister, I would destroy them; instantly and without mercy. And if anybody were to ask me concerning this foolish individual "what did he ever do to you?" then they'd be next in line for a slap round the head. We should be taking exactly as hard a line with the Empire and with the people who ask "What did they ever do to us?" for the simple reason that they already have threatened us.

About this... this... this...
You ignorance starts to annoy me.
I don't even want to dispute with you, I will just lose my time.
Go buy yourself "Pax Amarria" and read it, I hope it is written with good enough language so ever a person with 'doctorate-equivalent qualifications' can understand it. Until then, I don't want to discuss... this.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Bendonni Narri
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#90 - 2012-11-28 22:24:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Bendonni Narri
Diana Kim wrote:
Stitcher wrote:
Hold on now. Her reason for challenging me to this idiotic contest was, quote: "Are you sure you know more than a military officer?"

Now, quite aside from the fact that I held the rank of Major in the Ishukone Watch before I retired, military rank has zero bearing on the quality of a person's education in biochemistry. That's equivalent to a Tastoitsu teacher getting all offended when I point out my superior knowledge of hydromagnetic physics. The two fields are unrelated.

As such the challenge is a farce, and I refuse it on the grounds that I don't see anything to be gained from humiliating her in a private arena when I'm already doing a perfectly good job of it in the public one.



Stitcher wrote:

Quote:
What did Empire did to you?


Their stated intention is to Reclaim the whole of New Eden and unite it under their one religion, effectively making the whole cluster Amarr. As such, they pose a greater existential threat to the State than the Federation does. Their values are incompatible with the survival of the State, and they make no secret of the fact that they consider us to be "wayward children" in need of salvation.

"Salvation" meaning the destruction of the State, the burning of its literature, the suppression of its philosophy, the eradication of its heritage and the assimilation and indoctrination of its people, exactly as they attempted to do with the Minmatar. It's what the Empire exists for, it's Amarr's long-term strategic objective and they are completely unapologetic about it. Indeed, they feel that they are perfectly right and moral for intending to do so.

If somebody ever seriously threatened my sister, I would destroy them; instantly and without mercy. And if anybody were to ask me concerning this foolish individual "what did he ever do to you?" then they'd be next in line for a slap round the head. We should be taking exactly as hard a line with the Empire and with the people who ask "What did they ever do to us?" for the simple reason that they already have threatened us.

About this... this... this...
You ignorance starts to annoy me.
I don't even want to dispute with you, I will just lose my time.
Go buy yourself "Pax Amarria" and read it, I hope it is written with good enough language so ever a person with 'doctorate-equivalent qualifications' can understand it. Until then, I don't want to discuss... this.

You must be blind and ignorant, Pax Amarria was written by emperor Heideran VII,who has been dead for sometime. the current empress Jamyl Sarum's master plan is to restart the reclaiming.

Witty pop culture reference goes hereĀ 

Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#91 - 2012-11-28 22:57:06 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Valerie Valate wrote:
The problem with Gallente Prime is that it is full of Gallente.

With this I completely agree. This is the main problem. Can you try to offer some kind of solution, maybe we would be able to solve it together...


Well now.

A simple solution, long term approach, since as an Amarrian, I am used to thinking on a long term basis, anyway!

With a cunning use of nanites carrying fertilised Caldari eggs, it would be possible to simultaneously impregnate every Gallente woman, meaning that after 9months, then the next wave of Luminaire children would all be Caldari.

Perhaps deliver the nanites via exploding freighters in the upper atmosphere of Gallente Prime, I'm sure you Caldari know all about that sort of thing.

Do that a couple times, and it turns the population into ethnic Caldari, and thus, they'll vote to secede or some such thing that the Federation allows, you know, voting for things, and then blam! New New Caldari Prime.

Wahey!

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.

Lady Katherine Devonshire
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#92 - 2012-11-28 23:50:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Lady Katherine Devonshire
Bendonni Narri wrote:
You must be blind and ignorant, Pax Amarria was written by emperor Heideran VII,who has been dead for sometime. the current empress Jamyl Sarum's master plan is to restart the reclaiming.


She told you this herself, did she? And for the record, most of the Scriptures are written by people who have been dead for some time. This has never been much an issue before. If you are actually were paying attention to what has been happening in the Empire you'd see that you are, at best, only partially correct.

It is not that we intend to restart the Reclaiming - for in truth we never stopped. However, we learned a harsh lesson from the Jovians, and we've come to accept that the "Way of the Sword" method is no longer the correct path (ergo, the Pax Amarria). That does not mean that we do not intend to spread ourselves across the universe. Rather, it only means that we have new ideas how to do it.

Namely, by peaceful means. Diplomacy, missionaries, temples, and spreading the Faith to all the peoples of New Eden. We've come to realize that to be Amarr is not decided by bloodlines or even governments. To be Amarr is to be one who follows the Amarrian Faith. So long as we spread the Scriptures and our Faith then we are carrying out the Reclaiming.

The age of the "Way of the Sword" has ended, the age the "Way of the Heart" is where we stand now. Our military exists now mostly to simply protect our people from the mindless aggression of those savages who seek to destroy everything we've created. In the end, does it really matter if a follower of the Faith swears mortal fealty before the Great Empress or before the CEO of Ishukone? So long as their soul is Reclaimed, whatever the other aspects of their lives they wish to lead should matter little.

Yes, there are still reactionary, conservative movements within the Amarr Empire, the "old guard" who refuse to adapt & change to the realities of the present. I pray that they never come to into true power, however, for they are truly misguided souls to be placing the name of "Empire" before the name of God.

So long as there is the the Faith, there you shall find the Amarr. The Ni-Kunni are as Amarrian as the rest of us & are part of our Empire. The Khanid and Ammatar exist as separate governments from the Empire and yet they, too, are Amarrian as well. If, in a thousand years, the Gallente Federation or the Caldari State come to embrace the Faith then they, too, will be Amarrian regardless of whatever other flags they choose to fly.

That is the "master plan" of the Reclaiming. They only thing that has changed is that we have come realize the errors of the past: We placed our Empire before our own Faith, and God thus did punish us for in the form of the Jovians. We have learned from this mistake and do not seek to repeat it. It does not matter any more to which government a person pledges their allegiance to so long as their heart is with God. New Eden is filled with so many wayward souls and it is these souls that we wish to Reclaim for God... and do so peacefully, if at all possible.

So by all means keep your boardrooms and your stock charts, Caldari. Keep your democratic ideals and art schools, Gallente. We ask only that you accept these books of the Scriptures. Put them in your desk and perchance read them when you find the time. I believe you will find something there that may have been missing from your life until now. And when you are done you can keep proceeding to make money and paint portraits or whatever else satisfies your mortal needs. Governments, politics and nations are strictly material things. We value our Empire as much as your value your own nation, but there is more to the Amarr than an just an Empire.

"Surround yourself with the faithful, stand together, for there is no strength like it under the heavens."
- The Scriptures, Book of Missions, 71:21
Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
Stay Feral
#93 - 2012-11-28 23:54:07 UTC
Lady Katherine Devonshire wrote:
She told you this herself, did she?


Yes! In fact, she told "every soul in New Eden."

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#94 - 2012-11-29 00:18:56 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Lady Katherine Devonshire wrote:
She told you this herself, did she?


Yes! In fact, she told "every soul in New Eden."


I'm sorry. It's a very lovely video, but I don't see anything in it implying that she would be declaring a new Reclaiming. It sounded to me like she was going to use reactive policies, actually. Did I misinterpret?
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#95 - 2012-11-29 00:22:31 UTC
No. The Empress herself mentioned no new Reclaiming - the narrator/announcer did. In fact she only promised to treat others the way they treated the Empire.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Rinai Vero
Blades of Liberty
#96 - 2012-11-29 05:33:18 UTC
Lady Katherine Devonshire wrote:
Bendonni Narri wrote:
You must be blind and ignorant, Pax Amarria was written by emperor Heideran VII,who has been dead for sometime. the current empress Jamyl Sarum's master plan is to restart the reclaiming.


She told you this herself, did she? And for the record, most of the Scriptures are written by people who have been dead for some time. This has never been much an issue before. If you are actually were paying attention to what has been happening in the Empire you'd see that you are, at best, only partially correct.

It is not that we intend to restart the Reclaiming - for in truth we never stopped. However, we learned a harsh lesson from the Jovians, and we've come to accept that the "Way of the Sword" method is no longer the correct path (ergo, the Pax Amarria). That does not mean that we do not intend to spread ourselves across the universe. Rather, it only means that we have new ideas how to do it.

Namely, by peaceful means. Diplomacy, missionaries, temples, and spreading the Faith to all the peoples of New Eden. We've come to realize that to be Amarr is not decided by bloodlines or even governments. To be Amarr is to be one who follows the Amarrian Faith. So long as we spread the Scriptures and our Faith then we are carrying out the Reclaiming.

The age of the "Way of the Sword" has ended, the age the "Way of the Heart" is where we stand now. Our military exists now mostly to simply protect our people from the mindless aggression of those savages who seek to destroy everything we've created. In the end, does it really matter if a follower of the Faith swears mortal fealty before the Great Empress or before the CEO of Ishukone? So long as their soul is Reclaimed, whatever the other aspects of their lives they wish to lead should matter little.

Yes, there are still reactionary, conservative movements within the Amarr Empire, the "old guard" who refuse to adapt & change to the realities of the present. I pray that they never come to into true power, however, for they are truly misguided souls to be placing the name of "Empire" before the name of God.

So long as there is the the Faith, there you shall find the Amarr. The Ni-Kunni are as Amarrian as the rest of us & are part of our Empire. The Khanid and Ammatar exist as separate governments from the Empire and yet they, too, are Amarrian as well. If, in a thousand years, the Gallente Federation or the Caldari State come to embrace the Faith then they, too, will be Amarrian regardless of whatever other flags they choose to fly.

That is the "master plan" of the Reclaiming. They only thing that has changed is that we have come realize the errors of the past: We placed our Empire before our own Faith, and God thus did punish us for in the form of the Jovians. We have learned from this mistake and do not seek to repeat it. It does not matter any more to which government a person pledges their allegiance to so long as their heart is with God. New Eden is filled with so many wayward souls and it is these souls that we wish to Reclaim for God... and do so peacefully, if at all possible.

So by all means keep your boardrooms and your stock charts, Caldari. Keep your democratic ideals and art schools, Gallente. We ask only that you accept these books of the Scriptures. Put them in your desk and perchance read them when you find the time. I believe you will find something there that may have been missing from your life until now. And when you are done you can keep proceeding to make money and paint portraits or whatever else satisfies your mortal needs. Governments, politics and nations are strictly material things. We value our Empire as much as your value your own nation, but there is more to the Amarr than an just an Empire.

"Surround yourself with the faithful, stand together, for there is no strength like it under the heavens."
- The Scriptures, Book of Missions, 71:21


As long as the Amarr continue to believe themselves inherently morally superior based on ancient religious dogma that preaches sole ownership of Universal Truth they will always present an existential threat to the entirety of free thinking humanity.

I respect the turn away from the "Way of the Sword" ushered by the rightly honored Heideran VII's Pax Amarria. It is a step in the right direction. But what is to prevent this Empress, or any of her successors in future generations (let us not forget the long term!) from returning to the way of "Convert, or Perish!?" As long as you consider yourself inherently morally superior based on a value of adherence to your faith as measured by the criteria of your ecclesiastical authorities those of us who do not subscribe must be wary.

The inherent difference between the Amarr and the Gallente, or Matari, or Caldari is in this problem. All of our societies operate on foundations that are subject to internal criticism, expected to change. For the Gallente, a Democracy holds certain things "sacred" like individual freedom of expression, but those freedoms are subject to limits that are determined by the structures of our society as determined by a Democratic process. Your scriptures are subject to no worldly authority. They are inherently above mortal reproach.

Until your Faith as well as your Empire recognizes the right of others to choose not to adhere, indeed the freedom to reject that Faith entirely.... until that time Pilot Stitcher's argument remains valid. Amarr is a threat to the continued freedom of all non-Amarr.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#97 - 2012-11-29 13:53:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitcher
Diana Kim wrote:
1. You said you had 'doctorate-equivalent qualifications' in some sort of scientific field, while I have only military qualifications.
2. I challenged you, because you dared to say, that you understand how it works in ways that I don't.
3. Giving such ridiculous claims, you did no attempt to stand on your ground.
4. I gave you a chance to confront me in scientific field
5. You declined, that makes your statement not only false, but makes them backfire at you instead.
6. Since you brought in taistoiitsu (I hope you will learn to write the word correctly someday), you can try to challenge me. But believe me, it won't end good for you.


1,2: I most probably do, because of number 1. I am more highly qualified than you are in the field. Therefore I probably know more of the subject than you do. It's not difficult.
3,4: Science is not a confrontational field except insofar as theories are debated and discussed. You don't "duel" with science, you debate. Which is in fact what we're doing right here. I simply saw no reason to take the discussion away from its present format. I see nothing to be gained from holding a private debate that can't be gained and more from holding it right here.
5: Refusing a challenge does not render my statements false.
6: So now you're resorting to physical challenge. Again, refused. A contest of physical strength does nothing to prove either of us correct on this subject.

By the way, if you're going to adopt an air of smug superiority over my tiny mis-spelling of the word "Taistoiitsu", it might not be great for your credibility if in the very next sentence you make such a basic grammatical error as "it won't end good for you".

Stitcher wrote:
About this... this... this...
You ignorance starts to annoy me.
I don't even want to dispute with you, I will just lose my time.
Go buy yourself "Pax Amarria" and read it, I hope it is written with good enough language so ever a person with 'doctorate-equivalent qualifications' can understand it. Until then, I don't want to discuss... this.


I have read Pax Amarria. I actually have it in paper hardcopy, and it's about the most well-thumbed piece of literature I own.

I read it whenever I feel I need reminding exactly how dangerous Amarr really is. Because they don't need to send those big glitzy golden monuments to preposterously wasteful hubris into our space in order to conquer us. They feel perfectly capable of conquering us with ideas, propaganda and diplomacy.

Pax Amarria is a weapon, pilot Kim, and a damned subtle and effective one.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Anslo
Scope Works
#98 - 2012-11-29 14:56:13 UTC
Jeesh this thing is still going? Why are you giving Kim and the extremists all this attention guys? Just ignore them.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#99 - 2012-11-29 15:10:43 UTC
Because it's fun!

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Anslo
Scope Works
#100 - 2012-11-29 15:11:31 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
Because it's fun!


Stitch you got a weird way of having fun man...

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]