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In need of a new freighter tier.
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Mag's
Azn Empire
#81 - 2012-11-27 02:11:38 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Let's see what you have in the shape of choice today:
You have freighters: lots of room, a fair bit of EHP.
You have JFs, more than twice the EHP and a third the cargospace.
You have orcas, which can be setup to contain slightly more EHP than a freighter for significantly less cargospace.

Apparently this isn't enough, because you're complaining about how ganking freighters is on the rise, and as proof you showed a killmail with what is estimated as more than 500m isk loss for the gankers even though everything in the freighter dropped, and you're dismissing the JF even though it is better than a regular freighter in countering those kills because ... it's not "designed that way". vOv
This.

You already have choices, use them.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Souisa
Subhypersonics
#82 - 2012-11-27 09:28:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Souisa
I dont think CCP should add ships with no fitting options, its anti-game. And imagine how many they would have to add to fulfil every niche and pilot requirements. The proper way to do it is fewer ships but with greater customiziability, and a mini freighter with fits is not such a bad idea. However i think making the current freighters fittable instead would be a much better solution, because if a fittable freighter is added it will end up obsoleting the current one, and if not people will require the current ones be fittable as anyway

However CCP tends to choose the path of least resistance, and if they ever do something about the hauling situation it will most likely be a mini freighter. It will probably be a welcome change, but it will just make the current freighter look even worse. Might as well get it right from the beginning and make the current ones fittable

o/
Mag's
Azn Empire
#83 - 2012-11-27 09:59:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Souisa wrote:
I dont think CCP should add ships with no fitting options, its anti-game. And imagine how many they would have to add to fulfil every niche and pilot requirements. The proper way to do it is fewer ships but with greater customiziability, and a mini freighter with fits is not such a bad idea. However i think making the current freighters fittable instead would be a much better solution, because if a fittable freighter is added it will end up obsoleting the current one, and if not people will require the current ones be fittable as anyway

However CCP tends to choose the path of least resistance, and if they ever do something about the hauling situation it will most likely be a mini freighter. It will probably be a welcome change, but it will just make the current freighter look even worse. Might as well get it right from the beginning and make the current ones fittable
How does making a mini freighter, make the current freighter look even worse?

Explain how making the current ones fit-able, wouldn't make them worse?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Souisa
Subhypersonics
#84 - 2012-11-27 10:12:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Souisa
Check the freighter fits thread

o/
Mag's
Azn Empire
#85 - 2012-11-27 10:18:15 UTC
Souisa wrote:
Check the freighter fits thread
I was hoping you would and this time try reading them, there's a good chap. Blink

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#86 - 2012-11-27 14:31:14 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Let's see what you have in the shape of choice today:
You have freighters: lots of room, a fair bit of EHP.
You have JFs, more than twice the EHP and a third the cargospace.
You have orcas, which can be setup to contain slightly more EHP than a freighter for significantly less cargospace.

Apparently this isn't enough, because you're complaining about how ganking freighters is on the rise, and as proof you showed a killmail with what is estimated as more than 500m isk loss for the gankers even though everything in the freighter dropped, and you're dismissing the JF even though it is better than a regular freighter in countering those kills because ... it's not "designed that way". vOv
This.

You already have choices, use them.

Orcas are a poor choice because the skill tree doesn't overlap the Freighter tree at all, and a lot of the cargo capacity is specialized in any event.

It makes sense to have an Orca-equivalent ship for general cargo in the Industrial/Freighter skill tree, though I wouldn't hold my breath that such will be introduced any time soon.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Nahkep Narmelion
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#87 - 2012-11-27 18:01:00 UTC
Paikis wrote:
Red Frog Rufen wrote:
why should it be one at the expense of another, if more skill are required? are tier 3 BC less effective in any ways then the tier 2?


T3 BCs have very small tanks, and don't have drones (Talos excepted).

Having said that, I would love to see a new freighter.


Derp...seriously? Shocked

That wasn't the question, the question was on effectiveness. Are Tier 3 BCs less effective than Tier 2? The answer is an unmitigated no (and if you think it is less, then please simply uninstall the game).
Nahkep Narmelion
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#88 - 2012-11-27 18:12:25 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Red Frog Rufen wrote:
where?

it shows the wrap and everything inside it that droped.
…or it shows the junk you had in your hold, among which was a double-wrap that they wanted to bet on.


If there was junk, then some of it would not have dropped. In this case, the gank squad got luck in that the courier package dropped--i.e. they got it all.

You assumed some facts, then called Red Frog a liar. Good job.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#89 - 2012-11-27 20:46:46 UTC
Honestly folks....... Why not a new freighter or 3?

Nothing other than a new line of shuttles could be easier to balance, there is room in at least the ORE industrial line for a few sister ships to the Noctis, and the advent of rigged ships needing to be shrinkwrapped or put in a maintenance bay provides at least one niche a new line of transports could fill.

For each of the factions a sub-cap freighter/military transport that allows refits in space, a healthy maintenance bay, and cargo room for enough sandwiches and ammo to keep a small fleet operating all weekend would be a good role to fill.

It's not a suggestion without merit.
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#90 - 2012-11-27 22:15:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Shepard Wong Ogeko
Mike Voidstar wrote:

For each of the factions a sub-cap freighter/military transport that allows refits in space, a healthy maintenance bay, and cargo room for enough sandwiches and ammo to keep a small fleet operating all weekend would be a good role to fill.

It's not a suggestion without merit.


Um, you mean an Orca? You can seriously use them as a mobile pirate base. Allows for in-space refit, carries extra fitted ships. has plenty of cargo space, and can fit 3 gang links.


What is funny is that almost all these ideas can be covered with existing ships. It is just that many of those ships can't be used in highsec.

Mini freighter that fits mods; Roruqal and Orca
Carry fitted ships; Carriers, and Rorqual and Orca in limited ways
A freighter with more tank but less space; Jump Freighters


I do agree that Eve needs some more industrial ship options. The Ore Industrial skill is just begging for some more usefulness. Faction haulers are an interesting idea too. But some of these ideas and requests already have options. I wanted to haul stuff around the dangers of nullsec, so I bought a Rorqual. Not as much cargo, but I can fit a massive tank and it has a drone bonus for some defensive capabilities. It would not surprise me at all if the Rorqual is used more as a combat ready hauler than a mobile mining base.
Red Frog Rufen
Red Frog Freight
Red-Frog
#91 - 2012-11-27 22:56:28 UTC
why do you keep bringing up jump freighter, a 7.5b ship that required 5 months of training just to fly it, a good alternative to freighter?

why not a tier 2 with the stat of the JF without the jump drive? that would be a start (maybe more cargo too..)

Cage Man
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#92 - 2012-11-27 23:25:55 UTC
Why not just make it that if you are in a NPC corp you cannot shoot at anyone in HS. This way a ganker would need to be in a corp which can be wardeked, then the scout can at least serv a purpose. And yes, you could keep switching corps and creating new ones, but it adds some complexity to the simple no brainer gank that exists at the moment.
Crimeo Khamsi
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#93 - 2012-11-27 23:32:09 UTC
Red Frog Rufen wrote:
why do you keep bringing up jump freighter, a 7.5b ship that required 5 months of training just to fly it, a good alternative to freighter?

why not a tier 2 with the stat of the JF without the jump drive? that would be a start (maybe more cargo too..)


Um...tech2 would not solve any of your complaints at all... let's use frigates as an analogy.

Tech 1frigates take like... a day to train.
Tech 2 frigates take about a month and a half to train.

Tech 1 frigates cost about 500,000 isk maximum.
Tech 2 frigates cost around 12,000,000 isk or so.

If we were to apply these same ratios to a tech 2 freighter, it would require many months of training to fly one, and it would cost around 20 billion isk. In other words, as bad or much worse than the requirements for a a jump freighter.

Again, you seem to want a bunch of buffs without paying the same price for them that every other type of player pays for buffed ships.
Red Frog Rufen
Red Frog Freight
Red-Frog
#94 - 2012-11-27 23:40:24 UTC
Crimeo Khamsi wrote:
Red Frog Rufen wrote:
why do you keep bringing up jump freighter, a 7.5b ship that required 5 months of training just to fly it, a good alternative to freighter?

why not a tier 2 with the stat of the JF without the jump drive? that would be a start (maybe more cargo too..)


Um...tech2 would not solve any of your complaints at all... let's use frigates as an analogy.

Tech 1frigates take like... a day to train.
Tech 2 frigates take about a month and a half to train.

Tech 1 frigates cost about 500,000 isk maximum.
Tech 2 frigates cost around 12,000,000 isk or so.

If we were to apply these same ratios to a tech 2 freighter, it would require many months of training to fly one, and it would cost around 20 billion isk. In other words, as bad or much worse than the requirements for a a jump freighter.

Again, you seem to want a bunch of buffs without paying the same price for them that every other type of player pays for buffed ships.


i'm talking about a new TIER, not TECH. we already got tech 2 freighter, those are Jump Freighter.
epsilonion
CLOVEN SKY
#95 - 2012-11-28 00:27:55 UTC
IMO this game is getting worse and worse, CCP fix things that are not broken and break them. they leave things like overview bugs without even looking at them when tho people scream for them to be fixed.

Now there is a thread in here to get rid of local in 0.0 that will see the end of 0.0 mining..

I agree with the op on this one, industry gets left behind all the time, yes CCP introduced some miner related upgrades etc etc that was worth the 3 year wait since the last nice upgrade...

Now theres a mining frigate thats practically worthless thats coming in the next patch

A high sec freighter should be able and was designed (in its day) to be able to survive or nearly survive a attack in highsec wether it be 1 or 0.6 sec space, these days it can not, pvpers get buffed all the time and get new more powerful shinnies all the time, freighters need a buff or a noob ship will be able to pop them by the time 3 years pass..

yes I don't enjoy the game anymore as a miner/industry/manufacturer so I switched to ratting in annom's (null sec) and pvp and guess what I earn more isk doing that then I ever did mining high ends moving them to highsec and selling them.

suppose the industry/mining/building careers are a waste of time these days...

[u]Boom you went BOOM!![/u]
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#96 - 2012-11-28 01:00:34 UTC
its a pvp game, adapt or gtfo

epsilonion wrote:

Now theres a mining frigate thats practically worthless thats coming in the next patch


lol wut? i think my head just exploded. its the biggest boost to WH and 0.0 mining there ever was. they are free ships that are near impossible to catch.

removing local from null will be the end to carebearing in null yes. now miners will actually have to work together with scouts and combat pilots in order to get the juiciest of ores. if u dnt like it, come back to hi-sec where u belong.

epsilonion wrote:
yes I don't enjoy the game anymore as a miner/industry/manufacturer so I switched to ratting in annom's (null sec) and pvp and guess what I earn more isk doing that then I ever did mining high ends moving them to highsec and selling them.

suppose the industry/mining/building careers are a waste of time these days...


thats because so many ppl do it because its so safe. if mining were made more dangerous (like, if they took out local in null sec) only the most competitive miners would survive and ore prices would increase many times over.

like wise, ratting in null means ur always having to cloak up when bad guys come roaming. u'd be interrupted less in hi-sec and, along side loot and LP's, possibly make more isk if u have the indi skills to transform reprocessed loot into items.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#97 - 2012-11-28 01:06:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Zim
Daichi Yamato wrote:
removing local from null will be the end to carebearing in null yes. now miners will actually have to work together with scouts and combat pilots in order to get the juiciest of ores. if u dnt like it, come back to hi-sec where u belong.

You mean like literally everyone's done even before local's removed?

Yes, we've figured that out, and so has the rest of the game's population. It's a large part of the reason why nullsec sucks these days (another reason is the sov system, but eh).

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#98 - 2012-11-28 01:10:01 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
removing local from null will be the end to carebearing in null yes. now miners will actually have to work together with scouts and combat pilots in order to get the juiciest of ores. if u dnt like it, come back to hi-sec where u belong.

You mean like literally everyone's done even before local's removed?

Yes, we've figured that out, and so has the rest of the game's population. It's a large part of the reason why nullsec sucks these days (another reason is the sov system, but eh).


ha, well cheers. but ppl still solo mine in null, and mining still happens in WH's. so going back to the original point, how would removing local be a super nerf to mining?

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#99 - 2012-11-28 01:16:01 UTC
What do you mean, "super nerf to mining"? You mean beyond making it even dumber than it is today because you have to expend even more effort to get less in return than you would get from mining scordite etc in hisec?

I dunno, it's hard to say.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#100 - 2012-11-28 01:52:09 UTC
at the risk of derailing this thread...what the hell are u talking about?

epsilionion referred to the removal of local from null as if it was the end of all things null. yet mining still happens in WH's, u just shouldnt do it alone and without back up. Something that many miners have done solo in null thanks to the benefits of local.



EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs