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so, eve is getting some heat from the gaming industry, 2 new space games from major players coming

First post
Author
Prince Kobol
#161 - 2012-11-27 11:45:32 UTC
I believe that Star Citizens could be the MMO that finally will make all these Eve is Dying threads we have seen over the years come true.

Eve has never had a true competitor. Over years many new MMO's have been released but none of them have directly competed with Eve.

Now with Star Citizens we are going to have a MMO that will go head to head with Eve.

At the moment I believe Eve is a crossroads and the next 18 - 24 months are probably going to be the most important months in Eve's History.

They have this time to fix many of the major issues we have today, issues which have been outstanding for years now, things like the woeful Corp Management Interface, the tedium that is Sov Mechanics, the stream of poorly throughout content release, Tech Moons and many more issues.

If you watch the video which is on the Star Citizens website with Chris Roberts you will see a game in development that will truly rival Eve's dominance.

I do worry for CCP and Eve. If history has taught us anything is that CCP tend to get thing wrong more times the right and that they take far too long in fixing what are major issues with the game.

At the moment there is nothing on the horizon for Sov Mechanics or Corp Management Interface and the time scale for PoS is Summer/Winter 2013 !!!

Is this good enough?

Chris Roberts in the video is already taking about having a Dynamic Universe with new star systems and content being added on a weekly/fortnightly basis and not every 6 - 12 months.

A Universe which is constantly evolving and changing.

So my questions are,

1. Do you think that Star Citizens could be the game to break Eve?

2. Do you believe that CCP have the ability to not only able to fix the major issues in Eve before the release of Star Citizens, but to then keep up with RSI in regards to developing new content?
Deviana Sevidon
Jades Falcon Guards
#162 - 2012-11-27 13:14:16 UTC
It is still to early to tell but EVE will certainly get a lot of pressure. The artwork and demonstration videos are already looking great.

Maybe this will be the wake up call that CCPs management really needs.

....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced.

oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#163 - 2012-11-27 16:48:48 UTC
Deviana Sevidon wrote:
It is still to early to tell but EVE will certainly get a lot of pressure. The artwork and demonstration videos are already looking great.

Maybe this will be the wake up call that CCPs management really needs.


And then what? EvE is running on software ,they made by their selfs and they can,t handle it.
So what can they do? RSI is working with an existing game engine.

R.S.I2014

Prince Kobol
#164 - 2012-11-27 16:51:35 UTC
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
Deviana Sevidon wrote:
It is still to early to tell but EVE will certainly get a lot of pressure. The artwork and demonstration videos are already looking great.

Maybe this will be the wake up call that CCPs management really needs.


And then what? EvE is running on software ,they made by their selfs and they can,t handle it.
So what can they do? RSI is working with an existing game engine.



You point is what?

Deviana Sevidon
Jades Falcon Guards
#165 - 2012-11-27 17:44:11 UTC
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
Deviana Sevidon wrote:
It is still to early to tell but EVE will certainly get a lot of pressure. The artwork and demonstration videos are already looking great.

Maybe this will be the wake up call that CCPs management really needs.


And then what? EvE is running on software ,they made by their selfs and they can,t handle it.
So what can they do? RSI is working with an existing game engine.


CCPs problem is that they set themselves arbitrary timelines like the 6 month rule for expansions. If it looks like the product is not completed by the time they start cutting features and release it anyway. Then follow up with maybe a single patch and afterwards the feature is effectivly abandoned with practically zero ongoing attention.

I am not talking only about Incarna, that was the worst example of a trainwreck this kind of approach can cause but also about all the missing features of planetary interactions or the only partially thought out factional warfare which was open to exploits from the very beginning.

Now somebody else has the knowledge, the will and also the ressources to truely creating a next generation space sim with some of the features (walking in ships/stations) that CCP just abandoned.

A completely different example is Blizzard. Love them or hate them but the developers are determined to create the best possible experience in their games and expansions. Heart of the Swarm is practically complete, if they would be only in for the money then the game would have been released by now. Instead it gets a very extensive beta-phase and polishing were every aspect of the gameplay is put to a test.

....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced.

oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#166 - 2012-11-27 18:30:28 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
Deviana Sevidon wrote:
It is still to early to tell but EVE will certainly get a lot of pressure. The artwork and demonstration videos are already looking great.

Maybe this will be the wake up call that CCPs management really needs.


And then what? EvE is running on software ,they made by their selfs and they can,t handle it.
So what can they do? RSI is working with an existing game engine.



You point is what?




CCP had to much expectations with the carbon engine,but they are using it and possibly can,t simply turn things around.

R.S.I2014

oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#167 - 2012-11-27 18:31:58 UTC
Deviana Sevidon wrote:
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
Deviana Sevidon wrote:
It is still to early to tell but EVE will certainly get a lot of pressure. The artwork and demonstration videos are already looking great.

Maybe this will be the wake up call that CCPs management really needs.


And then what? EvE is running on software ,they made by their selfs and they can,t handle it.
So what can they do? RSI is working with an existing game engine.


CCPs problem is that they set themselves arbitrary timelines like the 6 month rule for expansions. If it looks like the product is not completed by the time they start cutting features and release it anyway. Then follow up with maybe a single patch and afterwards the feature is effectivly abandoned with practically zero ongoing attention.

I am not talking only about Incarna, that was the worst example of a trainwreck this kind of approach can cause but also about all the missing features of planetary interactions or the only partially thought out factional warfare which was open to exploits from the very beginning.

Now somebody else has the knowledge, the will and also the ressources to truely creating a next generation space sim with some of the features (walking in ships/stations) that CCP just abandoned.

A completely different example is Blizzard. Love them or hate them but the developers are determined to create the best possible experience in their games and expansions. Heart of the Swarm is practically complete, if they would be only in for the money then the game would have been released by now. Instead it gets a very extensive beta-phase and polishing were every aspect of the gameplay is put to a test.



The only thing CCP has to do ,is stop promising what they can,t deliver

R.S.I2014

digitalwanderer
DW inc
#168 - 2012-11-27 22:50:03 UTC
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
digitalwanderer wrote:
The ship i pledged is here, even though it's not textured.


http://ca.ign.com/images/albums/constellation-images/50a56bb4f4918925b219d36a


Everything inside is supposedly functional and the thing i find hilarious is that star citizen states an emphasis on the immersion side, and they might actually get not only ships but even stations where all players can walk inside of them and do whatever they want, wich is something eve attempted with walking in stations and it's been 6 years since work started on that aspect.


My guess is star Citizen will be done before EVE is even close to get walking in stations up and running....P



Where did you found those and are there more?



Those are the only ones i found for the constellation, so i don't have anything on the heavy bomber, the freelancer or the destroyer and cruiser unfortunately, but given the amount of detail shown,i think it's easy to say the others will also look very impressive without a doubt.
digitalwanderer
DW inc
#169 - 2012-11-27 23:03:59 UTC  |  Edited by: digitalwanderer
Prince Kobol wrote:
I believe that Star Citizens could be the MMO that finally will make all these Eve is Dying threads we have seen over the years come true.

Eve has never had a true competitor. Over years many new MMO's have been released but none of them have directly competed with Eve.

Now with Star Citizens we are going to have a MMO that will go head to head with Eve.

At the moment I believe Eve is a crossroads and the next 18 - 24 months are probably going to be the most important months in Eve's History.

They have this time to fix many of the major issues we have today, issues which have been outstanding for years now, things like the woeful Corp Management Interface, the tedium that is Sov Mechanics, the stream of poorly throughout content release, Tech Moons and many more issues.

If you watch the video which is on the Star Citizens website with Chris Roberts you will see a game in development that will truly rival Eve's dominance.

I do worry for CCP and Eve. If history has taught us anything is that CCP tend to get thing wrong more times the right and that they take far too long in fixing what are major issues with the game.

At the moment there is nothing on the horizon for Sov Mechanics or Corp Management Interface and the time scale for PoS is Summer/Winter 2013 !!!

Is this good enough?

Chris Roberts in the video is already taking about having a Dynamic Universe with new star systems and content being added on a weekly/fortnightly basis and not every 6 - 12 months.

A Universe which is constantly evolving and changing.

So my questions are,

1. Do you think that Star Citizens could be the game to break Eve?

2. Do you believe that CCP have the ability to not only able to fix the major issues in Eve before the release of Star Citizens, but to then keep up with RSI in regards to developing new content?



Do keep in mind that RSI is launching with only 100 star systems and only 12 ships, since they're putting a ton of detail because they're using one of the most advanced game engines around, so having fleets of dozens or even hundreds of ships in a large fight like EVE does, and do so without the FPS performance not dropping to single digit framerates, just isn't doable.


So we should think of star citizen as a scaled down version of EVE, but with a lot more fancy artwork and the ability to really fly the ship from the cockpit with a joystick, while using realistic physics and not just point and click in 3rd person view like EVE, and they don't expect there will ever be a fight involving more that 100 ships at the most, then add the ability for end users to run their own servers and add their own content to customize the experience, not to mention that star citizen will have a 50 mission single player campaign and not just tutorials like eve or also having friends on your ship and manning the turrets while you fly the ship itself, star wars style like the milennium falcon.


There's also no skill training involved at all, wich is the direct opposite of eve.....You just have to make the money in game( legally or illegally is up to you), to get into better ships and fit better weapons/modifications to it.


So there is stuff that is similar to eve, but it is very much it's own game overall.....So the only question is if the stuff that makes star citizen distinct be enough to attract a sizeable portion of the eve player base?
Nyla Skin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#170 - 2012-11-28 08:17:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Nyla Skin
This takes me back.

I bugged my father to buy me my first PC (a 25 MhZ 386 with both Roland LAPC-1 and soundblaster soundcards) solely for playing wing commanders 1 and 2.


Esan Vartesa wrote:
TriadSte wrote:

RSI is being made by a legend, who has made legendary games. All im seeing is win.


Chris Roberts was a legend until he directed Wing Commander: The Movie


Unfortunately yes. I never saw the movie cause wing commanders 3 and 4 were already pretty bad.

Quote:
So my questions are,

1. Do you think that Star Citizens could be the game to break Eve?

2. Do you believe that CCP have the ability to not only able to fix the major issues in Eve before the release of Star Citizens, but to then keep up with RSI in regards to developing new content?


1. No
2. No

In after the lock :P   - CCP Falcon www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies

Agaetis Byrjun Endalaust
#171 - 2012-11-28 12:16:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Agaetis Byrjun Endalaust
The first one who is not interested in competing with EVE in any possible way is Chris Roberts himself. He's adressing to a totally different kind of playerbase, and reading the forums while they were still up (+ other gaming/hardware related ones) made me understand the similarities with EVE will almost stop at "space environement".

In SC you will meet much more people oriented towards a "flight simulator in space" rather than a real time strategy in space which is EVE. Many of them will almost stuck at playing the single player version cause totally not interested in the MMO, a good part of those who will play the MMO is already crying for SC not to allow griefing and ganking in a EVE-like styla, there will be the chance for personal servers with different features and rules.

This very last "option" is imho quite disappointing for a MMO fan like me for a simple reason. Imagine people who doesn't like pvp (a lot in the SC community), imagine those who don't want griefing (almost all of em), imagine people who for geographical issues (did I say aussie?) will play in their national server rather than in the laggy-official-one with no one online in their tz...... all these different kind of people will have a chance to still play the game but not in the MMO being "forced" to survive in such an hostile environment such as EVE is or became.

Also the fact that Chris wants to offer a continually eveolving universe is a debatable "pros". Imagine if you have to face continual patches, tweaks, rules changes, new features, balancing fix..... every 2 weeks! Man, that's just silly and annoying!
Also the recent updates on the insurance thingy...... it's blatantly weak and totally exploitable in a real MMO. So chances are 2: SC won't be a "real MMO" or we will have a totally pve oriented game cause pvp will be totally messed up.

All these things make SC a way different game than EVE and this is why the only proper answer to your question is that EVE won't die cause of SC. As we all know, there's only 1 entity in the world who can kill it, and it's called CCP Smile

__________________________ just because you're paranoid it doesn't mean they're not after you

Hazen Koraka
HK Enterprises
#172 - 2012-11-28 13:40:59 UTC
I've already pledged money to Chris Robert's Star Citizen, I wish them every success in that venture, as I'm a massive space - sim fan.

However, EVE is a totally different beast in this regards - it isn't trying to be a space-sim with newtonian like physics, EVE is far grander. I'm not sure they are gonna pull off the same grandness as EVE (the universe there is currenly only 100 or so systems), but it will be a totally worth playing game, esp with Saitek joystick and Occulus Rift! Cool

Ninja Edit: tldr; It's not gonna stop be playing EVE totally.

Exploration is Random. Random is Random... or is it?! http://docs.python.org/2/library/random.html

oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#173 - 2012-11-28 17:59:20 UTC
Hazen Koraka wrote:
I've already pledged money to Chris Robert's Star Citizen, I wish them every success in that venture, as I'm a massive space - sim fan.

However, EVE is a totally different beast in this regards - it isn't trying to be a space-sim with newtonian like physics, EVE is far grander. I'm not sure they are gonna pull off the same grandness as EVE (the universe there is currenly only 100 or so systems), but it will be a totally worth playing game, esp with Saitek joystick and Occulus Rift! Cool

Ninja Edit: tldr; It's not gonna stop be playing EVE totally.



Joystick control and no endless skill tree i can,t wait.

If i ever stop Eve for SC ,who knows.

R.S.I2014

digitalwanderer
DW inc
#174 - 2012-11-29 02:29:59 UTC
Hazen Koraka wrote:
I've already pledged money to Chris Robert's Star Citizen, I wish them every success in that venture, as I'm a massive space - sim fan.

However, EVE is a totally different beast in this regards - it isn't trying to be a space-sim with newtonian like physics, EVE is far grander. I'm not sure they are gonna pull off the same grandness as EVE (the universe there is currenly only 100 or so systems), but it will be a totally worth playing game, esp with Saitek joystick and Occulus Rift! Cool

Ninja Edit: tldr; It's not gonna stop be playing EVE totally.



Pretty much this really, it is a space simulator with real physics where one can be a pirate, or a trader/smuggler, or work for the UEE or even build ships that others may want to buy, or an explorer and trying to discover new systems, but it pretty much ends there even though the game will continue to evolve based on what players do.



One can't own a system, or build their own outpost or POS's and at least initially, it'll be extremely hard for groups of players working together to get into one of those bengal carriers shown in the video, and use that as their home base for legal or illegal activities, so it avoids the current situation in EVE where all that matters are the number of super capitals on the field to dictate how a fight ends.....CCP royally screwed up on this aspect thinking that there would never be as many as there are in game, even if they are expensive and a pain in the ass to build.
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#175 - 2012-12-20 03:27:25 UTC
Roberts is so sure about ,what he wants and can accomplish that he is advertising to pledge other games.

http://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/project-godus-and-elite-dangerous/

R.S.I2014

Amarra Mandalin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#176 - 2012-12-20 08:07:55 UTC
In a world where you can no longer buy a Hostess Twinkie, I won't rule anything out.

But so far I don't see this game as much of EVE contender -- any more than any other game where people flock (or wander) looking for greener pastures or a new shiney. And, in the end, an unsub isn't good, whatever the reason, unless it is replaced and then some.

I hope the project is successful though, to fill the sci-fi/gamplay void that exists between SWTOR and EVE, which is rather niche, I suspect.

For the rest, who aren't too committed about spaceships, I suspect all that you are will belong to Elder Scrolls.











Reiisha
#177 - 2012-12-20 10:11:06 UTC
Everyone saying how Star Citizen is going to 'kill off EVE' is forgetting a few things...

One thing, as already has been mentioned by a multitide of posters, is that one is a space combat sim and the other is an rts style empire game... Hard to classify EVE really.

You can't build empires in SC. It's all about you, you you. You never have to cooperate with anyone for anything. Battles are likely to be limited to 50 people or less, not by design but because there's no reason for them to be bigger. What could there possibly be to fight about with more than that amount of people in SC?

The biggest difference is that EVE is one server. SC isn't and never will be. this is why EVE, as a community and as an MMO, will always have the upper edge over a game that's basically an old-school LAN 'thing' rather than an MMO. 100 systems and CryEngine 3 can't handle the massive playercounts one would really need to 'compete' with EVE in this regard. The lower amount of players and segregated community also mean there's no economy worth talking about. Much of SC's economy will be supplied by NPC's by necessity and as such, money has relatively little value there.

I could go on, but EVE is in a totally different league as far as 'scifi mmo' goes. Even Elite and Infinity can't begin to hope to scratch it for the same reasons above - While the servers for the latter will be larger, the appeal will be significantly smaller due to their 'uniqueness'.

If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...

digitalwanderer
DW inc
#178 - 2012-12-23 15:31:10 UTC
Reiisha wrote:
Everyone saying how Star Citizen is going to 'kill off EVE' is forgetting a few things...

One thing, as already has been mentioned by a multitide of posters, is that one is a space combat sim and the other is an rts style empire game... Hard to classify EVE really.

You can't build empires in SC. It's all about you, you you. You never have to cooperate with anyone for anything. Battles are likely to be limited to 50 people or less, not by design but because there's no reason for them to be bigger. What could there possibly be to fight about with more than that amount of people in SC?

The biggest difference is that EVE is one server. SC isn't and never will be.




Actually, that's not quite accurate since there will be a server run by the developers that will be a persistant universe, but it's just that tthey're also releasing modding tools and the ability for users to run their own servers using content they created themselves, something that is pretty much impossible with eve and everyone connecting to the same server, and waiting 6 months for each expansion.....I wouldn't be too surprised if content, even if it's user made content, will be released at a much faster pace especially if running your own server and making your own content so the ability to "create" a custom version of star citizen is there.


If said custom content is deemded worthy of the standards of cloud imperium, it's a good bet it'll be integrated into the persistent server, so while 100 star systems and a limited amount of ships will be available initially, there's no telling where it might be 10 years from now in both size and complexity, so it is similar to eve is that respect since EVE started out much smaller and simpler in 2003 than it is today.....Heck i still have the original install CD and it was only 400MB.....The game is 10x larger to download these days.


As for space battles, given the polygon budgets involved and the extreme amount of attention to every detail of the ship where a given feature has to serve a function and not just there to look good, with the main carrier shown so far having 7 million polygons and even individual fighters having 400k polygons, you can imagine the huge load to one's PC to have the same size battles you see in eve and still remain playable in terms of frame rate.....Chris roberts said it time and time again, this game is specifically a PC game exclusive and no console can handle it and it wouldn't even be possible to run it on a PC 2 years ago, so it will be extremely demanding to run and require good hardware to do that smoothly with all the details enabled.
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#179 - 2012-12-28 13:17:56 UTC
If Roberts does what he promise and listen to his community just a little better then CCP does ,well .

R.S.I2014

oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#180 - 2012-12-30 01:33:18 UTC  |  Edited by: oldbutfeelingyoung
ok last post was a bit of a butthurt reply ,i am sorry for that.

But if we give CCP ,lets say 2 years of development without any expansion.
2 years without any pressure to roll out anything every 1/2 year.
What could they manage to do with this game?

2 years to change everything they wanted to do ,they talked about until now.

not only the avatar stuff ,but also finish the bughunting and polishing they do for over a year
adding the pos stuff without the pressure to come with something within the next 6 months
adding dx11 support without extra pressure
adding any of their own visions without a 6 month pressure

i wonder

Nah ,this is just a dream as is Roberst has with his star citizen .
Who can make his dream come true ,CCP ? Roberts? we will see.

R.S.I2014