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Dev Blog: Bounties, Kill Rights, New Modules and War in Retribution

First post First post
Author
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#241 - 2012-11-25 06:26:09 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
If I understand the kill rights mechanic, making your kill right available to everyone means everyone can buy the kill right at any time. As you pointed out, if the kill right is cheap then people are going to have alts or friends blow up their rookie ships to get rid of the kill right, and if the kill right is expensive there's no too high a chance of it being activated by most people.

However, think about what this does to the bounty hunting profession. Suppose you're looking around for people with kill rights for sale and you want to rack up kills for yourself. Since people with cheap kill rights aren't going to keep them for very long and are most likely to easily discard them, I'm left with kill rights I'll have to pay a fair amount of isk for. Let's say most kill rights that aren't easily discarded run in the 50-100 million isk range.

What incentive do I have to pay for a kill right that once activated, anybody in the vicinity can take advantage of? If I buy a killright I should be paying to have the chance to take someone down myself, not to make it so CONCORD completely ignores aggression from anyone and everyone at that time. This game mechanic makes absolutely no sense. Why should I pay for everyone else to shoot the same target I want to shoot at? Why can't I just pay for myself to shoot at the target?


EVEN IF this kill right was restricted to my corporation or just me, when I activate it that still gives everyone in the vicinity the opportunity to attack. The only thing this really changes is who is forced to pay to activate the kill right, and who gets to decide when and where the engagement is. There's absolutely no control whatsoever on who can get involved. This doesn't make any sense.

Still waiting for comment on this.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
#242 - 2012-11-25 09:41:50 UTC
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Nalha Saldana wrote:
Oh my god you can activate MJD and cloak instantly then you will remain cloak for the spool up time AND be cloaked when landing, just tried on bucky.


This is a defect that will be fixed before Retribution. Sorry Big smile


What about the defect where you can MJD out of a hundred long points, land on a hundred seboed interceptors and still warp away before any of them lock you, in your triple plate baddon?


Asking again.


The MJD basically has the same limitations as a MWD, so this scenario is possibly, if you're well aligned.


But its not similar to a mwd in respect that it doesnt accelerate you 100kmto away very fast. You dont even enter/drop out of warp.... you just blink over, and that should work just the same as jumping to a cyno.
Will a targeted heavy interdictor warp disruption generators prevent its activation, or only bubbles?

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Nalha Saldana
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#243 - 2012-11-25 11:47:15 UTC
Niko Lorenzio wrote:

But its not similar to a mwd in respect that it doesnt accelerate you 100kmto away very fast. You dont even enter/drop out of warp.... you just blink over, and that should work just the same as jumping to a cyno.
Will a targeted heavy interdictor warp disruption generators prevent its activation, or only bubbles?


The problem with having it work like a real jump drive is that it would make it underpowered and quite worthless tbh. I'm up for some experimenting with this module and if it turns out overpowered they can just nerf it down the line.
Remember that battleships really have lost a lot of their power lately, they need something to give them new things to do.
JamesCLK
#244 - 2012-11-25 14:51:52 UTC
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Nalha Saldana wrote:
Oh my god you can activate MJD and cloak instantly then you will remain cloak for the spool up time AND be cloaked when landing, just tried on bucky.
This is a defect that will be fixed before Retribution.

I certainly hope that by fix you mean:
"The MJD will uncloak you upon jumping (end of the cycle)"
and not:
"You cannot cloak while spooling up the MJD"

-- -.-- / -.-. .-.. --- -. . / .. ... / - --- --- / . -..- .--. . -. ... .. ...- . / - --- / ..- -. -.. --- -.-. -.- / ... - --- .--. / .--. .-.. . .- ... . / ... . -. -.. / .... . .-.. .--. / ... - --- .--.

Foo-foo Freak
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#245 - 2012-11-25 20:10:15 UTC
And the battle Noctis was born. Twisted
Cordo Draken
ABOS Industrial Enterprises
#246 - 2012-11-25 23:06:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Cordo Draken
Mika Takahoshi wrote:
Cordo Draken wrote:
*Sigh* Wormholes that can intelligently choose not to let certain people through... Well, I see your point, but I would still argue that a Concord ship should be the result of being stopped (giving a slim chance of escaping) vs an impossible logic. This also applies to a Criminal just suddenly not being able to move or do anything as if his/her own ship caused a mutiny. Again, I'd rather see Concord doing this vs a "Magically Force" preventing any movement. I just prefer things to make sense, then get an answer of "Because we said so."

Repeat to yourself, "It's just a game; I should really just relax."

A good lore handwave is always nice, but a gameplay mechanic for gameplay reasons is always vastly more important, and if you argue against the mechanic for lore reasons, you've lost perspective. Repeat the mantra...


Nothing is ever wrong with things making sense, even in a Sci-fi genre... otherwise the 1930 series of Flash Gordon would still be "Awesome" to this day. Get a grip, this is a discussion for feedback, hence the feedback and my personal opinion on it. Why don't you try to contribute rather than troll...

Whomever said, "You only get one shot to make a good impression," was utterly wrong. I've made plenty of great impressions with my Autocannons 

Magic Crisp
Amarrian Micro Devices
#247 - 2012-11-26 10:36:16 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Moonaura wrote:
Please change the colour from Orange for a Bounty Target. Currently in Faction Warfare, enemies are already orange. Pink is good this time of year I hear? But seriously, there are like other colours available ;)


Bounty guy has black background (pilots with available kill rights have orange), I agree, pink would be much MUCH MUCH better but the art director (CCP Huskarl) doesn't like pink in EVE.. do you think I should maybe take it personally?

Buuuuut do you know that you can change all the color tags to your liking by opening the overview settings, go to appearance, colortag and right click on the entry you want to change the color of and pick a color you like Big smile


Could you consider please having a different notification for standings and any other things? Sharing the same way/location to indicate that a toon has some standing and/or secstatus anything is very suboptimal. Like in most cases we want to know _both_ if a toon has a red standing AND GCC/<-5 standing. On grid, in overview, and in the local listing. This would be a very valuable and useful feature for most of the players i think.
CCP SoniClover
C C P
C C P Alliance
#248 - 2012-11-26 11:55:56 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
If I understand the kill rights mechanic, making your kill right available to everyone means everyone can buy the kill right at any time. As you pointed out, if the kill right is cheap then people are going to have alts or friends blow up their rookie ships to get rid of the kill right, and if the kill right is expensive there's no too high a chance of it being activated by most people.

However, think about what this does to the bounty hunting profession. Suppose you're looking around for people with kill rights for sale and you want to rack up kills for yourself. Since people with cheap kill rights aren't going to keep them for very long and are most likely to easily discard them, I'm left with kill rights I'll have to pay a fair amount of isk for. Let's say most kill rights that aren't easily discarded run in the 50-100 million isk range.

What incentive do I have to pay for a kill right that once activated, anybody in the vicinity can take advantage of? If I buy a killright I should be paying to have the chance to take someone down myself, not to make it so CONCORD completely ignores aggression from anyone and everyone at that time. This game mechanic makes absolutely no sense. Why should I pay for everyone else to shoot the same target I want to shoot at? Why can't I just pay for myself to shoot at the target?


EVEN IF this kill right was restricted to my corporation or just me, when I activate it that still gives everyone in the vicinity the opportunity to attack. The only thing this really changes is who is forced to pay to activate the kill right, and who gets to decide when and where the engagement is. There's absolutely no control whatsoever on who can get involved. This doesn't make any sense.

Still waiting for comment on this.



People have to be careful when activating a kill right about time and place. This is by design.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#249 - 2012-11-26 12:01:09 UTC
CCP SoniClover wrote:
People have to be careful when activating a kill right about time and place. This is by design.

So, what happens if I pay, say, 100m to activate someone's killright, 20 others join in and shoot at him, and someone in that group gets the final shot, who gets to loot and who gets the bounty (if there is any)?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Amarrius Ibn Pontificus
Legion Air
Meracom
#250 - 2012-11-26 12:01:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Amarrius Ibn Pontificus
This:
Quote:

'The aggressor now has the option to retract a war that has been made mutual by the defender. This ends the war in 24 hours. '


At the very least the defender should have the option of having the war cost shifted onto him and have some sort of role reversal between aggressor and defender without any cool down or ceasse fire period.
Musiaba Schenoly
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#251 - 2012-11-26 13:53:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Musiaba Schenoly
Amarrius Ibn Pontificus wrote:
This:
Quote:

'The aggressor now has the option to retract a war that has been made mutual by the defender. This ends the war in 24 hours. '


At the very least the defender should have the option of having the war cost shifted onto him and have some sort of role reversal between aggressor and defender without any cool down or ceasse fire period.


YES particulary because of

THIS


The Zerg Overmind wrote:
Yes, with the current wording I do believe that I will still be able to keep everyone trapped. Using a method I publcly outlined for them almost 2 weeks ago

....

I'm surprised they only plan to let mutual wars get retracted... because in my mind that says "The aggressors is trapped, until the defender wants to trap them, then they go free".


IMHO too:
It's an hot-fix that WILL NOT work as intended!

EVERYBODY will be surprised like ZO, I guess, about the removal of an inferno-feature (serious mutual wd) because of an issue (details https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=157449) that will not be fixed with this removal (in the dev blog now defined way and quoted above).
CCP SoniClover
C C P
C C P Alliance
#252 - 2012-11-26 14:37:45 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
CCP SoniClover wrote:
People have to be careful when activating a kill right about time and place. This is by design.

So, what happens if I pay, say, 100m to activate someone's killright, 20 others join in and shoot at him, and someone in that group gets the final shot, who gets to loot and who gets the bounty (if there is any)?


The one who gets the final blow gets the bounty (and shares it with anyone in his fleet, if any). A wreck of a suspect is open to loot by anyone (so anyone of the 20 players in your example could loot legally).
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#253 - 2012-11-26 16:17:20 UTC
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
CCP SoniClover wrote:
People have to be careful when activating a kill right about time and place. This is by design.

So, what happens if I pay, say, 100m to activate someone's killright, 20 others join in and shoot at him, and someone in that group gets the final shot, who gets to loot and who gets the bounty (if there is any)?


The one who gets the final blow gets the bounty (and shares it with anyone in his fleet, if any). A wreck of a suspect is open to loot by anyone (so anyone of the 20 players in your example could loot legally).

So in other words, we have a few different ways this can all go down.

1) the guy who is awarded the killright spends the next 30 days dogging the guy who killed him, until he's in a sufficiently expensive ship to be killed in, and activates it on a gate and watch everyone else try to tear him to bits
2) someone or some corp is awarded the killright from someone who has been ganked (or attempted ganked, or had his pod pointed or webbed in lowsec Roll), and does the same thing as in 1)
3) Same as 2), except they follow him around until he's in an expensive ship and away from anyone else (this'll never happen, but let's play along here)
4) someone pays the ridiculously high price needed to avoid the guy just ganking himself with an alt to get rid of the public killright, and someone else gets the killing blow and loots the loot from under his nose.

Instead of the owner of the killright being able to assign the killright to one or more person, corp or alliance at a time, the first person, corp or alliance to kill him gets the specific bounty the owner of the killright put on completion of the killright, and thus actually properly facilitate actual bountyhunters/bountyhunter corps/alliances.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Maul555
Xen Investments
#254 - 2012-11-26 17:37:52 UTC
Salvage drones and a noctis drone bay? And I didn't have to blow anyone for it?

INTERNET HIGH FIVE!
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#255 - 2012-11-26 17:54:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Imawuss wrote:
Why not tie the bounty system and the kill right system?

So in addition to the current changes:
A person could sell a kill right to an actually bounty hunter who then can hunt the target. Upon kill the bounty hunter would then get 100% of only the bounty that the player who sold the kill right put on him. plus he then would get all the rest of the normal bounty payout if more people had bounties on the target.

This basically acts as a contract, sell kill right for 25m but put a 50 mil bounty on target. When target is killed you also receive a killmail so you know the details of the kill and if you want to use that bounty hunter again.
Seems fair and easy, It would not detract from the current system and just adds a little more flavor.

Interesting, I'm not sure if that could be exploited or not.

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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#256 - 2012-11-26 18:16:22 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Nalha Saldana wrote:
Oh my god you can activate MJD and cloak instantly then you will remain cloak for the spool up time AND be cloaked when landing, just tried on bucky.


This is a defect that will be fixed before Retribution. Sorry Big smile


What about the defect where you can MJD out of a hundred long points, land on a hundred seboed interceptors and still warp away before any of them lock you, in your triple plate baddon?


If your opponents are too stupid to have at least one scram handy, they deserve to be humiliated.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#257 - 2012-11-26 19:11:27 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
CCP SoniClover wrote:
People have to be careful when activating a kill right about time and place. This is by design.

So, what happens if I pay, say, 100m to activate someone's killright, 20 others join in and shoot at him, and someone in that group gets the final shot, who gets to loot and who gets the bounty (if there is any)?


The one who gets the final blow gets the bounty (and shares it with anyone in his fleet, if any). A wreck of a suspect is open to loot by anyone (so anyone of the 20 players in your example could loot legally).

So in other words, we have a few different ways this can all go down.

1) the guy who is awarded the killright spends the next 30 days dogging the guy who killed him, until he's in a sufficiently expensive ship to be killed in, and activates it on a gate and watch everyone else try to tear him to bits
2) someone or some corp is awarded the killright from someone who has been ganked (or attempted ganked, or had his pod pointed or webbed in lowsec Roll), and does the same thing as in 1)
3) Same as 2), except they follow him around until he's in an expensive ship and away from anyone else (this'll never happen, but let's play along here)
4) someone pays the ridiculously high price needed to avoid the guy just ganking himself with an alt to get rid of the public killright, and someone else gets the killing blow and loots the loot from under his nose.

Instead of the owner of the killright being able to assign the killright to one or more person, corp or alliance at a time, the first person, corp or alliance to kill him gets the specific bounty the owner of the killright put on completion of the killright, and thus actually properly facilitate actual bountyhunters/bountyhunter corps/alliances.


Well, when you activate a kill right you will probably want to do it when the odds of having someone horn in on your kill are minimal. In other words, don't activate it on the Jita undock. Instead follow him a jump or two first.

Also, this enters into the picture as well:
Quote:
We’ve added an option for people to limit who the kill right is available to. Now when you make a kill right available, you can choose to restrict access the kill right to a specific corporation, alliance or even character. You can still make it open to anyone if you wish.


Although this looks like it only restricts who can activate the kill right, and does not affect who can shoot at him once the kill right is activated.

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Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#258 - 2012-11-26 19:28:26 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Well, when you activate a kill right you will probably want to do it when the odds of having someone horn in on your kill are minimal. In other words, don't activate it on the Jita undock. Instead follow him a jump or two first.

Yes, but what do you realistically think is going to be the chance of ever seeing someone with a killright on them at any other point than a gate? It'll either all be disposable alts which you won't see anywhere else, or it'll be idiots who for some reason turned off the protect-the-idiot switch.

Ranger 1 wrote:
Also, this enters into the picture as well:
Quote:
We’ve added an option for people to limit who the kill right is available to. Now when you make a kill right available, you can choose to restrict access the kill right to a specific corporation, alliance or even character. You can still make it open to anyone if you wish.


Although this looks like it only restricts who can activate the kill right, and does not affect who can shoot at him once the kill right is activated.

Yes. So a singular person, a whole corp or a whole alliance can activate it so everyone on the gate can shoot him.

Very productive for bountyhunters. Roll

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Lyric Lahnder
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#259 - 2012-11-26 20:16:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyric Lahnder
Lord Zim wrote:
Helena Russell Makanen wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Also it applies more to low sec where concord is not there to bail you out. Did you guys test to see??

pods cant shoot back anyway.

You should really read dev blogs in order before you post in anger

#alektookcareofit

So asking a question is considered posting in anger? I have read that dev blog a few times before and my question I asked above was very specific. I thought the entire point of threads like these is so us, the players, can ask questions and provide feed back.

If it was tested and confirmed to still grant the kill right then all you had to say was, "Yes, we tested it and made sure the kill right would not be voided by defending yourself." Christ...


Try shutting your yap for 5 minutes... your tone and pit-bull style would wear out a saint.

The correct way of answering him would've been "yes, since killrights are frontloaded, defending yourself shouldn't void anything, since once he attacks you he becomes a legal target. and, this goes for such heinous things like neuting a pod in lowsec, while killing his ship is all fun and games.

yes, the new system makes so much sense, and is certainly not setup to just remove pvp from hisec at all, no sirree."


Zim Could you clarify on how this will remove all pvp from highsec? I thought the changes mentioned would encourage pvp in highsec. If these changes do the opposite I'd like to hear why in greater detail.

Noir. and Noir Academy are recruiting apply at www.noirmercs.com I Noir Academy: 60 days old must be able to fly at least one tech II frigate. I Noir. Recruits: 4:1 k/d ratio and can fly tech II cruisers.

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#260 - 2012-11-26 20:16:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Lord Zim wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Well, when you activate a kill right you will probably want to do it when the odds of having someone horn in on your kill are minimal. In other words, don't activate it on the Jita undock. Instead follow him a jump or two first.

Yes, but what do you realistically think is going to be the chance of ever seeing someone with a killright on them at any other point than a gate? It'll either all be disposable alts which you won't see anywhere else, or it'll be idiots who for some reason turned off the protect-the-idiot switch.

Ranger 1 wrote:
Also, this enters into the picture as well:
Quote:
We’ve added an option for people to limit who the kill right is available to. Now when you make a kill right available, you can choose to restrict access the kill right to a specific corporation, alliance or even character. You can still make it open to anyone if you wish.


Although this looks like it only restricts who can activate the kill right, and does not affect who can shoot at him once the kill right is activated.

Yes. So a singular person, a whole corp or a whole alliance can activate it so everyone on the gate can shoot him.

Very productive for bountyhunters. Roll

I get your point. A large percentage of people that earn kill rights against them will be single purpose alts or low sec gate campers that go on the occasional high speed errand into high sec (and are very unlikely to get snagged).

Kill rights on their own will not revolutionize bounty hunting, although I think more people will screw up and get themselves popped than would appear evident at first blush. I can see a few of the better organized high sec groups getting the occasional kill in fast locking Tier 3 BC's against those attempting to suicide gank miners in belts or on gates going after freighters (in those situations where they need multiple volleys' to bring down their target before Concord takes them all down). Frankly, with kill rights being front loaded, I think we'll also see more people forgetting they have kill rights on them than we currently do.

But yes I think bounties will be a bigger boon to bounty hunters than kill rights are as many of those wearing the bounty will not necessarily be used to having to be careful... and a person with both a bounty AND a kill right against them had better not plan on doing anything in high sec that requires them to pause anywhere for any length ot fime.

Still, most of those claims will be targets of opportunity rather than something you can easily make a profession out of. The ability to put a bounty on a whole corp or alliance might be the saving grace in this system, as then there would be incentive for a bounty hunting corp to declare war to facilitated taking the bounties (assuming the bounty is high enough to cover the cost of the war dec and still provide a possibility for profit).

I'm kind of okay with seeing what the player base can figure out on this one for awhile, as long as further mechanics can be added (or current ones tweaked) to ensure the bounty hunter profession becomes truly viable.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.