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To Vargur or not to Vargur... ???

Author
piecakes's brother
Assasinated Zombies
#1 - 2012-11-25 08:07:40 UTC  |  Edited by: piecakes's brother
I am currently tri boxing 2 Machs and one noctis. They are deced out and do 1250dps each (t1 ammo for tracking) / (including drones). The Machs have a amazing tank (crystals / deadspace). I have a 3rd toon just for salvaging. My question is ... Is a Vargur worth replacing one of the Machs... As I can fly that as well... looks like more tanking less ganking and a little slower. Using a 3rd toon seems to slow me down some so it might be kinda an even trade.... and my computer sounds like it might exploded from fans..LOL so what should I do...

So what will be best combo.
So is Vargur in my situation worth it.
Ronha Ottrit
War Prophets
#2 - 2012-11-25 14:58:59 UTC
Sounds like overkill any way you squeeze it. Why not just try it out and see how it works? If it doesn't work out, just resell the Vargur on contract or take the loss on the rigs and market it up.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#3 - 2012-11-25 15:42:12 UTC
your gpu fan will not be the only one panting.

I should buy an Ishtar.

Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#4 - 2012-11-25 15:56:46 UTC
So maybe instead changing mach for varg you should just produce wrecks with your two machs and once every 1.5 hours take your noctis on clean up tour? Or maybe you have some pretty hardcore deadline to make with your current config and can't afford to make a break just for salvaging?

Invalid signature format

McRoll
Extraction and Exploration Ltd.
#5 - 2012-11-25 17:45:13 UTC  |  Edited by: McRoll
I usually recommend Vargur over Mach when you fly on single account, because it is faster to salvage on the fly instead of changing into Noctis every couple of missions. In your case it is theoretically faster because you'd have DPS with salvage ability on 2 ships but multitasking would be pretty difficult. The DPS of the Vargur allows you to salvage and loot all the important wrecks while completing the mission without slowing down. With another Mach you'd be killing too fast to salvage most of the stuff on the fly, so you'd be forced to slow down a bit to get the wrecks. If you plan to come back in a Noctis after mission completion, it's not worth it, marauders are made specifically for not switching ships for salvage.

So basically try it out. I don't think it would change much in terms of isk/h in your case.
stoicfaux
#6 - 2012-11-25 20:19:50 UTC
The Vargur can match the Mach's raw gun firepower and range. (Drones don't really count for much for DPS due to how fast things die and how slow drones are.)

However, with 800 ACs, for every 11km closer you are, you should see a ~10% increase in applied DPS, IIRC. So the Mach's speed and agility let you close the range faster and thus out DPS the Vargur. Plus the Mach's speed and agility get you to and from the missions noticeably faster.

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Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#7 - 2012-11-26 04:19:19 UTC
Similar ships what ever you pick u cant go wrong mach does more raw dps and lock faster it is nimble too act like cruiser,also have bigger drone bay can refit for arty with no problem.

Varg can target more stuff but lock slower it can be better tanked(use less tank mods even) tracking bonus can help too but not huge advantage as long as u use 800mm(AC),it haz amazing cargo hold so u can stack various type of ammo and not rly pay attention it is simply huge it will use much less ammo and u can do amazing things with 3 spare high including removing local shield booster making more room for stuff.

In any way if you dual boxing doing it with same ships stream line process and make thing easy.same tracking/damage/rof/speed helps.

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Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-11-26 04:49:06 UTC
mach > vargur, always

There is no Bob.

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Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#9 - 2012-11-26 05:08:22 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
mach > vargur, always


Except when it isn't :D
Muestereate
Minions LLC
#10 - 2012-11-26 07:22:02 UTC
If your in a laid back mood the Vargur. But Mach is much more fun to fly.
Raiko Osburn
Advanced Resource Acquisition and Exploration
#11 - 2012-11-26 09:03:17 UTC
With Vargur as 3rd ship you will get dps increas but you will suffer from not enough time to salvage the wrecks, unless your Vargur stays behind the rest of your dps ships. If you want to salvage anyway, Noctis would be probably more efficient as it has all its high slots dedicated to tractor beams and salvagers while Vargur has only 2 tractors and 2 salvagers.

I am flying Vargur and I am happy when I am done salvaging large wrecks at the same time I kill last ship in the pocket. With 2 more ships to deal damage, I wouldn't bother with salvaging at all.

Forget numbers, play with ideas, look for solutions.

Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-11-26 12:02:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Miton
Paikis wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
mach > vargur, always


Except when it isn't :D


which is never.
seriously, unless you want a BS sized salvager you dont need a vargur.

and given more dps > salvaging for missions...

There is no Bob.

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Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#13 - 2012-11-26 14:28:00 UTC
I've tried 4 times to go from Mach to Vargur and every time i ended up back at Mach lol. everything just feels like a slow space-turd after flying the mach for so long, it really is the sports car of the battleship class.

Would it be too much to have a Machariel tattooed to one's left butt cheek I wonder?
RioCrokite
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2012-11-26 14:39:54 UTC  |  Edited by: RioCrokite
What about upgrading noctis to salvaging self-rep loki/tengu that could start ongrid with rats and work independently?

Maybe that would increase pace if you necessarily want to salvage.

edit: I guess it won't so you just hit efficiency barrier *unless you do lvl5s.

seriously with 3 toons go to w-space and incrase your isk/h 3-4 fold.
Karig'Ano Keikira
Tax Cheaters
#15 - 2012-11-27 10:57:40 UTC
problem with 2 x mach + vargur is that you will be killing faster then you can loot and salvage unless you load your marauder with lot of tractors and salvagers, in which case you start wondering why you took marauder instead of noctis.
However plus is that you don't have to worry about agro in the missions (and this will be be even more annoying when they implement new AI) - marauder can stand in there and salvage/loot in peace while noctis tends to be come unhappy when pocket agros on it.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#16 - 2012-11-27 13:43:12 UTC
When i triple box missions I take the Mach and 2 FoF (yep FoF ccp, not "auto-targeting"!!!!!) missile Tengus (even after the upcoming HML "nerf" and whatever they do later to the tengu this set up will probably rock. It's pro at super blitzing missions and I don't even have to worry that much about the tengus just restart the missiles every once in a while.

Unless you build your own stuff and need the salvage, at some point looting/salvaging becomes a drag on your isk making. If you can fly 3 ships in a mission why are you bothering with salvage in the 1st place?
Lilan Kahn
The Littlest Hobos
The Whale Hunters Association
#17 - 2012-11-27 22:42:59 UTC
vargue if you have marauder 5 else mach
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#18 - 2012-11-28 03:56:39 UTC
Unless you run into tanking issues with a particular mission, I'd honestly stick with the dual-Mach combo, unless you want to get rid of that noctis. If you keep the noctis, stick with the Machs, they have better overall killing power over Vargurs (though they can't really loot and salvage on there own and Machs tend to be ammo guzzlers). They can also carry more drones which will be more important after 4 Dec, too.

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