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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Remove Armor Repair / Remote Cycles.
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Alara IonStorm
#1 - 2012-11-25 21:39:17 UTC
Basically change the 5% Faster Reps on Repair Systems Opt to 5% more Reps. Change the Nanobot Accelerator to Cap Use then remove the Cycle Timer.

You Active your Repair like a Cloaking Device and the Icon Glows.

Instead of grabbing Capacitor then >>>Wait>>> Armor.

Every Second you get X Armor Regenerated.

--- For instance. ---

Myrmidon / Medium Armor Repair II.

160 Cap >>> Wait 9 Seconds >>> 440 Armor

W/ Skill Change and New Rep

Activate -13 Cap a second +43 Armor a second.

---

New Exequror / Medium Remote Repair II.

60 Cap >>>Wait 4.5>>> 312 Armor

New Rep

Activate on a Target -13 Cap a second +69 Armor a second.

---


You do not get it at the beginning of a cycle like shields but you can choose how long you need to run it. I.E Bonused Medium Repair II on 16 Second = -208 Cap / +688 Armor.

Still different from Shield but a big Buff to Armor Repair.
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-11-25 22:33:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Ted
Has pros and cons, in high sec where often times in undock games usually involve logi the ability to overwhelm a target before the first rep cycle comes is critical to success, meanwhile in massive fleets where alpha is king it could make many targets downright impossible to kill where they would be able to be otherwise, whether that is a bad thing or not is your opinion.

IMO logi is not in need of a buff, it is way to powerful as is. The role of constantly streaming in health will come from the new logi frigates and buffed t1 cruisers.

Logi will be even HARDER to neut out because now they can run their modules on just a small sliver of cap, definitely not a good thing as dual cap transfer guards are pretty much invulnerable to capping out.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Alara IonStorm
#3 - 2012-11-25 22:40:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Commander Ted wrote:
Has pros and cons, in high sec where often times in undock games usually involve logi the ability to overwhelm a target before the first rep cycle comes is critical to success, meanwhile in massive fleets where alpha is king it could make many targets downright impossible to kill where they would be able to be otherwise, whether that is a bad thing or not is your opinion.

IMO logi is not in need of a buff, it is way to powerful as is. The role of constantly streaming in health will come from the new logi frigates and buffed t1 cruisers.

Logi will be even HARDER to neut out because now they can run their modules on just a small sliver of cap, definitely not a good thing as dual cap transfer guards are pretty much invulnerable to capping out.

This "buff" is still less then what Shield Ships have IE All Shields at the beginning of the Cycle. So it will not make Armor Targets any harder to kill then Shield Targets.

As for the Undock I am to understand that while Logi can "Undock" they can no longer dock. They will be inheriting their targets aggression timer. Twisted
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-11-25 22:51:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Ted
Alara IonStorm wrote:

This "buff" is still less then what Shield Ships have IE All Shields at the beginning of the Cycle. So it will not make Armor Targets any harder to kill then Shield Targets.

As for the Undock I am to understand that while Logi can "Undock" they can no longer dock. They will be inheriting their targets aggression timer. Twisted


Even with the undock nerf when I bring in logisitcs I can still quickly give my target enough hitpoints to survive and kill you before you can kill my logi, also many people have multiple logistics accounts so they repair each other. Also streaming in hitpoints is important as it means you never quite remove all of a persons hitpoints from their ship. In the alliance tournament for example, often times if you are breaking the tank of someone, but your ally is about to die also, even if he dies before you kill your target you can still kill him because of the cycle time for all reps. If HP kept coming back constantly this would be impossible as the guy would immediately have armor/shield back. It is a buff to all logistics across the board. After that first cycle the two logistics types behave almost exactly the same.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Alara IonStorm
#5 - 2012-11-25 22:59:54 UTC
Commander Ted wrote:
It is a buff to all logistics across the board.

Actually it is just a buff to Armor Logi.

Shield gets the Alpha Burst and gives a little more while Armor has to ramp up but with a faster target switch.

So yes it is buff to Armor Logi making them about as good as Shield but in a different way.

It would change things but I do not think it would be for the worst.
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-11-25 23:31:07 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Commander Ted wrote:
It is a buff to all logistics across the board.

Actually it is just a buff to Armor Logi.

Shield gets the Alpha Burst and gives a little more while Armor has to ramp up but with a faster target switch.

So yes it is buff to Armor Logi making them about as good as Shield but in a different way.

It would change things but I do not think it would be for the worst.

No, I told you why it buffs shield logi in my last post. Also both are now even harder to fight with cap warfare!

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Alara IonStorm
#7 - 2012-11-25 23:34:40 UTC
Commander Ted wrote:

No, I told you why it buffs shield logi in my last post. Also both are now even harder to fight with cap warfare!

You didn't tell me. Shield stays the same as current and Alpha's Shield HP while Armor Trickles Armor.

I do not see how leaving Shield Reps exactly how they are buffs it?
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-11-26 00:53:09 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Commander Ted wrote:

No, I told you why it buffs shield logi in my last post. Also both are now even harder to fight with cap warfare!

You didn't tell me. Shield stays the same as current and Alpha's Shield HP while Armor Trickles Armor.

I do not see how leaving Shield Reps exactly how they are buffs it?

Didn't, read that arent I an ass. However the trickle effect will still be very strong, they should just make them both come at the end of a cycle.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Midnight Pheonix
The Corpening
#9 - 2012-11-26 02:49:21 UTC
Supported with one condition,

Armor rep modules have a 'warm up' time where they would deliver less reps at the beginning and after (use the standard cycle time for the current reps) Seconds it works at peak efficiency. This would solve issues with instant reps killing Alpha fleets. It also would tactically change rapid target changes in an attempt to keep logi's reps less effective as they would have to 'waste' 1 cycle to get efficient reps on anyone. I would also consider doing the same with shield transfers as well.
Sigras
Conglomo
#10 - 2012-11-26 08:26:01 UTC
ok, first of all i think we may all be using the term "alpha fleets" wrong . . . Alpha fleets should be completely unaffected by this change because the alpha strike shots should all come in within one second of each other, or your fleet coordination sucks . . .

Second, you realize that this doesnt really eliminate armor rep cycles, it just makes the cycle shorter right?

That being said, I do like this change, it would keep armor and shield tanking different but provided incentives to use either.

Shield Tanks
Reps most HP/s
Reps all hit instantly

Armor Tanks
Reps most cap efficiently
Instant target switching


That seems alright to me.
Seranova Farreach
Biomass Negative
#11 - 2012-11-26 08:36:29 UTC
smells very much liek possable passive armor tanking. so a big NO

[u]___________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg[/u]
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#12 - 2012-11-26 10:47:26 UTC
What the preceding poster said. It would turn the armour repper into a Shield Power Relay for armour, in effect. You'd see Abbadons with armour reps cycling constantly grinding missions, and a balance between CPR/reps would be EFT-warriored to allow you to AFK Domi absolutely everything whereas now you actually have to stagger reps to make your tank last.

This would also have major implications for capitals.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Mascha Tzash
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2012-11-26 12:26:15 UTC
As the Rig "Nano-Bot-Accelerator" exists I allways have a hard time thinking of armor-reps as a coordinated action of mentioned nano bots crawling over the hull, placing themselves in the scratches and holes of a ship and the reporting alltogether they are in position wich results in an increasing number of armor hp at one time. But thats just some twisted thinking of one mind. :)

On the other hand one could argue that the ASB is only some kind of shield booster on steroids. So why have this? It just has its value in certain situations.

The other day there was a discusion about giving armor reppers the option to use scripts to fix the repair cycle time to 1s and then have it the OPs proposed effect (skill and ship bonuses included).

In my eyes the problem between shield and armor tanking is that they both have to keep the ship alive (if possible) but they have to be (or at least feel) different in the way they work.
Shield seems to drift in the direction of giving quick (and sometimes strong) boosts to the defence of the ship as the ASB suggests.
Would it be consequent to allow armor repairing to go into the direction of continuosly restoring this line of defence?
And when its not possible to give both a distinct and diferent mechanic, why keep both?
Sigras
Conglomo
#14 - 2012-11-27 09:53:31 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:
What the preceding poster said. It would turn the armour repper into a Shield Power Relay for armour, in effect. You'd see Abbadons with armour reps cycling constantly grinding missions, and a balance between CPR/reps would be EFT-warriored to allow you to AFK Domi absolutely everything whereas now you actually have to stagger reps to make your tank last.

This would also have major implications for capitals.

This is simply not true. Its easy to figure out a cap stable fit for armor tanks if thats what you want to do. I used to run an AFK domi for passive income when i was poor; it was easy.

This would not change that at all if you kept the same cap efficiency and rep amount per module.