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[Data Collection - Highsec] I want to hear your words, post them here!

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Author
Omega Tron
Edge Dancers
Pan-Intergalatic Business Community
#21 - 2011-10-19 16:15:34 UTC
This sticky link is a listing of all the ideas that have been proposed and is being tracked by a DEV -

http://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=6342&find=unread

The 1st item on the listing is -- SHIP CREWS

This has also been put on the cover of the last EON Magazine.

I would like to suggest that this expansion to EVE is more important than any improvement that's going to be suggested as a Hi-Sec Empire change. In my opinion this will do more to bring new players to this universe in the short term than Incarna will, even though in the long term Incarna will also add to the player population.

I would also like to suggest that the missing skills books need to be added and enabled for what they were intended to do -- Black Market trading, DED missions/complex improvements, and smuggling just to name a few.

CCP's sand box is EVE Online.  The sand is owned by CCP.  We pay them a monthly fee to throw the sand at each other.  That is all that is here, so move along. Nothing more to be seen.

Ogopogo Mu
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#22 - 2011-10-19 23:01:59 UTC
This damn forum has eaten my post twice now.

Removing insurance for CONCORD-aggression losses is a no-brainer. No insurance agent is going to pay out a policy on a vehicle lost due to criminal activity, much less 8 times per day. Suicide ganking should be a more calculated risk for the attackers on the expected value of the drop. Insurance shouldn't matter to anyone doing it for a bounty on ice miners, or because they're bored and want to waste money attacking a non-WT.

Small scale arenas with betting options, yes yes. It attracts folks to PvP who would otherwise not bother, and can lead to hilariously obvious odds-rigging.

As far as highseccers and politics, the problem is a compound one. Highseccers tend to be casual players who don't want to (or can't) toss in the time required to be relevant in a null alliance, or form up into small gangs for lowsec roams. Casual play is perfectly legitimate, and accounts for significant revenues for CCP. But they're not organized, and only barley pay attention to CSM politics, if at all. When their concerns are marginalized or ridiculed by powerblocs, the usual response is, "You should have voted, run for office, formed an alliance, etc." What's more likely here is that the casual player will simply quit; why spend money on a game where nobody cares about you? They take their subscription fees with them, as well as the fees of their casual friends who also leave since their friends are gone, and the winners of the political argument wind up being the losers in the final result, along with CCP. Now that the CSM has moved from being a PR stunt/mouthpiece/T20 bandaid, there should be a way to get casual players into the political process, even if it's just a stupid little can of "I Voted" Quafe.

On that note, props to Rat if this thread isn't just a giant troll. :P
Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
#23 - 2011-10-20 01:10:10 UTC
I would like it if players could be doing concord/customs/navy stuff. It could even make smuggling a more interesting career.
Cyprus Black
Perkone
Caldari State
#24 - 2011-10-20 03:09:02 UTC
To be honest I can't really think of anything about high sec that pisses me off and that might be the reason why I choose to stay there instead of low or null sec. I live in a wormhole and make frequent and daily trips to high sec.

I enjoy the small scale PvP that wormhole life offers, the lack of supercaps steamrolling everything, the ease of logistics, availability of trade hubs, the lack of supercaps steamrolling everything, the feeling of owning a little piece of New Eden to call home, the isolation that wormholes provide, the lack of supercaps steamrolling everything, and the randomness of each day living in the wormhole.

Oh, and the lack of supercaps steamrolling everything.

Life in high sec is a bit safer. We can do just about everything that null sec residents can do except it takes us longer to do it and is less profitable. High sec life is for the patient and I think a lot of players are used to the whole concept of waiting for things. It makes casual play feasible. You can log in and not have to worry that a fleet of supercaps were hotdropped while you were sleeping and completely demolished your home in a matter of hours.

Plus where else are you going to do manufacturing? Low and null sec? Come on now, that's just silly. Given the limited number of manufacturing slots in null sec stations/outposts and the limited number of stations/outposts in null sec in general, manufacturing out there just isn't feasible. No point manufacturing at a POS if a supercap fleet gets hotdropped in and demolishes it with such ease.

Anyways, to me high sec is mediocre at best. Sort of like bland cereal. Not great but also not terrible. Low and null sec is just not worth it for a variety of reasons. Yes it is highly profitable, but it's also not worth the hassle.

Summary of EvEs last four expansions: http://imgur.com/ZL5SM33

Vile rat
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#25 - 2011-10-20 08:46:12 UTC
Che Biko wrote:
I would like it if players could be doing concord/customs/navy stuff. It could even make smuggling a more interesting career.



This is the kind of thing that piques my interest as you said the key word, career. Living in empire should be a viable career path and have the same depth of experience and things to do as nullsec. Empire in my opinion SHOULD be an end game as much as 0.0, just different for a different playstyle.
Jenn Makanen
Doomheim
#26 - 2011-10-20 11:08:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn Makanen
Corporate Bribery, to increase standing, just for POS anchoring.

If you're a corp of any real size, and you don't recruit specifically for it, you can't anchor a POS in highsec as you'll never get the faction standing for it. How about the ability to temporarily increase your corp's faction standing, say for a week or so, so you can anchor a POS. Have increased charter costs if you're below required faction standing.
Laechyd Eldgorn
Molden Heath Angels
#27 - 2011-10-20 13:18:37 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Navigator
problem with hi sec is that it's so easy to do industry there it makes most industrial activites useless in low sec or 0.0

it would make hi sec much more fun if you could actually go to pos and loot tech 2 bpo

Removed. Navigator.
Pixxie Twilight
#28 - 2011-10-20 17:47:48 UTC
Nice thread, though I don't have time to read it all. Cool I'm not Pro at Eve, so be kind if these ideas are ditsy. P

1.
I'd very much love to be able to insure my implants. With how they work now, I figure wearing good ones on a mobile character transporting valuables/doing combat stuff is less viable. Even mining with them could be risky I suppose.

2.
It sounds like insurance pays out badly on nicer ships which makes me more freaked out to fly them. It sounds like currently the insurance is based on mineral construction costs, and not on the risk factor. I wonder if it's poss to make it a bit cheaper to insure non-combat ships (like mining/transport ships) than combat ones?

(On the flip side, maybe later when I'm more established with more isk, insurance costs might not seem so extreme.)

Thanks for the thread, ;)

Pixxie
>^^<

[b]~~~ NEW PLAYER PODCAST ~  PIXXIE'S EVE ONLINE PODCAST ~~~ Latest Episode EPISODE 10*SWTOR, DIABLO 3, Inferno, HULKAGEDDON* ~~~~~~~~  On iTunes and at http://pixxietwilight.podbean.com/ ~~~~~~~~[/b]

Vile rat
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#29 - 2011-10-20 17:56:46 UTC
Pixxie Twilight wrote:
Nice thread, though I don't have time to read it all. Cool I'm not Pro at Eve, so be kind if these ideas are ditsy. P

1.
I'd very much love to be able to insure my implants. With how they work now, I figure wearing good ones on a mobile character transporting valuables/doing combat stuff is less viable. Even mining with them could be risky I suppose.

2.
It sounds like insurance pays out badly on nicer ships which makes me more freaked out to fly them. It sounds like currently the insurance is based on mineral construction costs, and not on the risk factor. I wonder if it's poss to make it a bit cheaper to insure non-combat ships (like mining/transport ships) than combat ones?

(On the flip side, maybe later when I'm more established with more isk, insurance costs might not seem so extreme.)

Thanks for the thread, ;)

Pixxie
>^^<


I don't give a crap if the ideas are the worst things in the world. I'm grateful that you contributed to this, and even if the core idea doesn't work out elements might be awesome so thank you.
Ziva Zywiec
United Pharmaceutical Supply
#30 - 2011-10-20 18:00:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Ziva Zywiec
Then though I think this is more metagame coming from the Kugu circle jerk club I will give you the benefit of the doubt Rat.

You are looking for career paths, how about burglar. Like some of the other posters have stated, make it possible to rob posses in all areas of space. Expand on scanning, code breaking, and analyzing skills for this. Make the risk high and make it hard but possible. If you fail you are destroyed by the pos defences, but if you succeed you are the pink panther stealing all the goodies and leaving your calling card behind.

There are some good ideas in this thread I hope you take them seriously.

Edit: Also something about suicide ganking. I like ganking and it should stay but it is unfair that the ganker gets the killmail and all the loot and the victim nothing. The victim should ALSO get a killmail for assisting concorde even if they don’t have time to fight back. This will make the gankers think twice and also give the victim something to show for it. Or remove killmails all together concerning suicide ganking for both parties. Doing it for profit is one thing but buffing your killboard is just weak sauce.

PS the Mattani's killboard is getting nicely buffed (cowards)
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2011-10-20 18:36:28 UTC
Don't wanna repost so linking to original...

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest

Naga Tokiba
Tokiba Industries
#32 - 2011-10-20 19:05:44 UTC
I would like to be able to form a small corp, without being decked all the time - remowe war dec mechanics from hi-sec.

I would like to be able to do moon mining in hi-sec.

As I'm into mining, manufacturing and the like, I would like, at lots of other players allready has suggested, larger belts with roids consisting of multible oretypes.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#33 - 2011-10-20 19:26:47 UTC
Naga Tokiba wrote:
I would like to be able to form a small corp, without being decked all the time - remowe war dec mechanics from hi-sec.


No. As much as I hate the grief wardecs, I have participated in a handful where they made sense (i.e. we showed up, ate all the rocks, got dec'd ... or someone else showed up, ate all our rocks, and got dec'd ... FUN AS HELL type wardecs).

Naga Tokiba wrote:
I would like to be able to do moon mining in hi-sec.

No. Makes sense that there's no moongoo in hisec.

Naga Tokiba wrote:
As I'm into mining, manufacturing and the like, I would like, at lots of other players allready has suggested, larger belts with roids consisting of multible oretypes.


Go out to lesser-inhabited systems. Chances are, it'll be a lot easier to get the rocks you want.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

T-Jay Charante
Black Sun Industry and Research
#34 - 2011-10-20 20:24:34 UTC
I would like to see 'instanced' pvp battlefields, pretty much standard in any mmo these days.
A queue system with equal 'X' amount of players required on each side.
Ship restrictions would apply, for example, frigates in high sec.
This would allow new players to not only get involved in viable pvp at an early stage, at a low cost, but also a great way for players to meet other like minded people.
This could be tied into faction warfare or just random fights.
I'm sure this has been mentioned before and of course there are plenty of pro's and con's, but it would definitely add a lot of fun.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Wardecs Without Borders
#35 - 2011-10-21 04:32:39 UTC
Vile rat wrote:
Che Biko wrote:
I would like it if players could be doing concord/customs/navy stuff. It could even make smuggling a more interesting career.



This is the kind of thing that piques my interest as you said the key word, career. Living in empire should be a viable career path and have the same depth of experience and things to do as nullsec. Empire in my opinion SHOULD be an end game as much as 0.0, just different for a different playstyle.


Missions:

Make missions more dynamic. Create mini-arcs that will take you all over a region, or even span empires. Maybe even create corporate missions and arcs that will require coordinated effort by a dozen players. Basically, create more "co-op" content for those players who aren't interested in PVP.

Allow players to use LPs to gain standings with other corporations friendly to the one they have LPs with. If I've got an amazing standing with the Caldari Navy, why should I have to start over with Spacelane Patrol? Shouldn't a Navy agent be able to put in a good word for me so I can start running L4s?

Nerf highsec incursions. Seriously, right now everyone who knows how to make isk in incursions is out there getting stupidly big paychecks for almost no risk. Let the low/null incursions pay the big bucks, highsec incursions need to pay about half what they do now.

Highsec PVP:

Create new ways to generate PVP in highsec without it turning into a shooting gallery where the killmail junkies shoot noobs all day until there are no more noobs. Bounty hunting is a popular idea. I've put forth the idea of creating Concord deputies as part of a massive content addition in lowsec, something similar could be done in high. PVP missions might even be a possibility, though that might end up being too much like arena combat, something that should be avoided in a sandbox game.

Fix highsec war and aggression mechanics: Since I got into highsec PVP two months ago, I've seen some really goofy things happen with wardecs and aggression. Make it consist and logical. Also, stop using the band-aid of "that's an exploit, don't do it" and instead correct loopholes and bugs as they are discovered.

And yes, we've been warned about using wardec exploits since the announcement that there are no more wardec exploits. I love consistency.



Basically, there's no compelling story being told in highsec, and there's not enough freedom to write your own story the way it's done in nullsec. It feels more like a place you go to grind for isk, and less like a thriving metropolis in the wild west, which is what I think it should be like.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Christina LaGrande
Pentium Enterprises
#36 - 2011-10-21 07:57:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Christina LaGrande
Ogopogo Mu wrote:
Highseccers tend to be casual players [..] their concerns are marginalized or ridiculed
This indeed :)

My main gripe is not really high-sec or most of the thing in high-sec, it's the overflow from null or low-sec. It's the mouth-breathing vocal minority on the forums (and often in-game) that get some sort of twisted joy from ruining the game for others.

The first paragraph of the TS is a direct reversal of the feeling most pirates have: "Hurr, I blow up ship, derp... You no want? Learn2play nub, you play my way, in which I force my standards upon you because CCP lets everyone play the game the way they want to play it, or the highway. No, I won't let you execute CCP's prerogative to play the game the way _you_ want, you'll have to play it the way _I_ want". And for what? The only thing I can think of is causing grief, because killing a miner (or even a mission runner) is just about as exciting or difficult as running a level 1 courier mission.

I do realize however this is difficult to address, and I also realize high-sec isn't supposed to be 100% safe, but there are a lot forum threads indicating this is a regular problem for high-sec dwellers. To me, it's not even the blowing up part (even though that is quite annoying), it's the total (censored) attitude displayed very vocally by those l33t PVPers killing defenseless miners. It's like all human decency gets thrown out as soon as they board their combat vessel...

But then again, this is EVE, so I grew a pair and huffed up. I don't have to like that particular part of the game though :P
Karim alRashid
Starboard.
#37 - 2011-10-21 08:09:39 UTC
Time to remind what the wise man said:

Quote:

EVE is a dark and harsh world, you're supposed to feel a bit worried and slightly angry when you log in, you're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, that's what hello kitty online is for.

Pain is weakness leaving the body http://www.youtube.com/user/AlRashidKarim/videos

Christina LaGrande
Pentium Enterprises
#38 - 2011-10-21 08:53:42 UTC
Karim alRashid wrote:
Time to remind what the wise man said
Time to ask you to read carefully ;) Or perhaps, to not let your misconceptions cloud your judgements.

It may seem ppl are asking for "happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures" if you're always on the receiving end of the stick and don't know any better, but if you can't distinguish basic, decent human interaction from badmouthing others and taking joy in their suffering you're part of the problem.

Well, you already are, because you are only contemplating one side of the equation (the one having the guns). It seems some ppl think "happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures" is ganking defenseless (at least, as long as they are playing the way _they_ want to instead of the way _you_ want them to play) high-sec dwellers. So I guess EVE isn't for those pirates/gankers, and therefor, by your own words, they should go to Hello Kitty Online...
Ogopogo Mu
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#39 - 2011-10-21 09:48:04 UTC
Note for Vile rat about careers:

Not sure about the career path fixation. There are career paths in hisec:

1) Guys who work for paychecks (mission runners)
2) Guys who supply stuff (miners, PI, building, invention)
3) Guys who move stuff around (arbitrage traders, station traders, suppliers to low/null, professional contract haulers)
4) Guys who take stuff (suicide cargo gankers, can flippers, market/IPO scammers, ninja salvagers, corp infiltrators)
5) Guys who blow other guys up for a living (hisec wardec corps, some of the guys from category 4 once someone aggresses)
6) Guys who do meta-stuff (write an app, build a training program, player-run/sponsored events)

In lowsec you have a few less options; you can do about everything you can in hisec, but some of it is less practical. Add on open aggression careers like pirate and mugger. Nullsec offers sovereignty. None of these choices are appropriate for hisec. Lowsec's issues are many, and they're covered in a lot more threads.

I don't think there's that much wrong with hisec as it stands today, apart from little illogical things like insurance for ships blown up by CONCORD. UI issues, terribad wardec mechanics (including remote rep problems, why not put them on the killmails?), and the like affect everyone no matter where they choose to play.

If you're looking for new and different career paths for highsec, there are a lot of great ideas. I'd like to see the existing problems get ironed out first though. Hacking into a POS to weaken its defenses sounds interesting, as does being an organizer/bookmaker for an open series of combat tournaments, as does improved AI for NPC rats. But these take CPU cycles and developer resources.



Note for Vile rat about bounties:

Flat death bounties have never worked in any game. Too easy to exploit. Only way to make them not profitable is to set up a bounty escrow with CONCORD that pays out for less than the value of the destroyed items like so:

Dead ship: Everyone on the killmail splits 50% of the base value of the destroyed ship and destroyed fittings (not dropped), up to the amount in escrow. The killers also split the insurance payout, if for some reason the wanted pilot had insurance.

Dead pod: Everyone on the killmail splits 75% of the base value of the implants plus 75% of the cost of the clone, up to the amount in escrow.

This makes it unprofitable to get podded by your own alt, makes the pod potentially more valuable to kill, and a high-bounty target can be hunted for a very long time. If the target flies small ships instead of supercaps, it lowers the value of an individual kill, but keeps the escrow running longer.

Example:

Vile rat gets bountied by annoyed highseccers after he trolled them in Assembly Hall, for 100M ISK total (cheap bastards). This goes into the CONCORD escrow.

He gets his cruiser blown up by 5 attackers. The loss in hull and destroyed modules is 50M ISK. (Dropped stuff is up for grabs.) Each of the 5 attackers gets a 5M bounty payout [(50M*50%)/5]. The escrow goes down to 75M still on Vile rat's head.

They manage to nab his pod and all 5 get on the killmail. Vile rat had implants, and their base value + the cost of his clone are 500M. 500M*75% is more than what's left in the escrow, so each attacker gets (75M/5)=15M for the podkill instead of [(500M*75%)/5]=75M.

Now if the bounty was significant, like 10B ISK, not only does Vile rat's pod become a potentially juicier target, but the escrow stays high enough that he can be hunted again and again. He can hide in a station or go out without implants, but the clone value still makes it worthwhile, and not having implants only makes the escrow last longer.

Adding a bounty to the destroyed ship is just a thought, as it gives a solo roamer a reason to go after a wanted pilot even if he might not be able to nab the pod. If that gets too complicated, just forget it and keep the 75% bounty on the implants and clone price.



Note about security in hisec:

I don't want hisec to become safer than it is now. You should have to stay on your toes. For folks who think suicide ganks and the like are horrible, keep in mind that Eve lets you figure out solutions and execute them on your own. You can shoot back. You can learn to transport valuable stuff safely. You can choose to NOT move ridiculous amounts of valuable stuff in a paper ship. You can learn to run a mission without blinging out 2 billion on a space pinata. You can even try being a bad guy for a while, and if you go back to your old lifestyle at least you'll be aware of what can happen.

If you think griefing in Eve is bad, there's grief play in every game. It's just that in most of them your only recourse is to petition. (Toontown and Puzzle Pirates were fun to grief in.)

Just stay aware and don't risk ridiculous amounts of your net worth for stupid reasons.
XXSketchxx
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#40 - 2011-10-21 12:22:10 UTC
Find out what CCP's intended income is for high sec.

Currently it is possible to easily farm incursions for 100+mil isk/hr. This is stupid and pubbie high sec players with the Concord blanket of safety should not be able to attain these rates. The "risk" of Incursion rats is not true risk, thus the reward should not be so high.