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Working on tactics to nullify suicide ganking in high sec
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Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#81 - 2012-11-24 22:10:19 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
I have been struggling with tactics to neutralize freighter ganking in high sec but unfortunately, I can't envision any.
Most of the gankers are already insta-targets now in high sec, and no one has been able to mount a decent defense.
And I don't see any changes to that fact with the new game mechanics.
In fact, it will be worse.

Is there anyone out there that thinks they have tactics that will work in 2 weeks?


Where is the post where you explain that you aren't looking for tactics that involve scouting or tanking more, or flying with no value cargo, as has been suggested? I'm assuming that you already kn those exist and just chose not to mention them.

~ Freighters can't be fit, so that is a limitation on tactics. All that is left is having someone web you to align faster, as mentioned, and not carrying high value cargo.

~ One obvious tactic you might not have considered: Get somebody else to fly it with a Courier package. This is probably the best honestly, as you can put a high value on the cargo to protect against potential loss. If they lose it, it becomes their loss, rather than yours. Monetarily speaking anyway.

That basically ensures that they will do what they can to protect it, and they do make a business of that. Also, it is relatively inexpensive to contract a courier. This will always work in your favor, provided you don't absolutely have to have that cargo somewhere at a given time for some other purpose where ISK covering its loss is just not enough, and I doubt that's likely.

Think of Freighter ganking as an incentive to use Courier contracts; that is what it really boils down to. Also, it means you don't need, or have to train a Freighter Alt or fly one yourself. That's a pretty good bonus right there.
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Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#82 - 2012-11-24 22:12:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
The rest of the carebears have already figured out the perfect tactic. They'll throw their lil tantrums on the forums, threaten to unsub and demand that the game is changed to suit their AFK, no-effort playstyle. Trying to game the system and beat the gankers is too much effort - they'd have to pause Netflix and alt tab into the game.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Ritsum
Perkone
Caldari State
#83 - 2012-11-24 22:32:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Ritsum
10 ways to avoid ganks...

1) Fit nothing over T2 modules (No faction No ded and no Officer mods).

2) Do not auto-pilot/afk if you do equip high end Modules.

3) If you insist on using high end modules, take note of popular ganking corps/alliances and keep an eye on local to spot said members.

4) Review High-Sec pvp mechanics to make sure you either a) Don't get yourself concorded b) Don't give anyone the rights to attack you freely.

5) Do not Transport Multi Billion isk cargo without either back up or knowledge of known ganking area's

6) In missions do not shoot at pesky Ninja looters, you are giving yourself a death sentence because they get the rights to shoot you back and guess what? Your Mission fit ship ain't that great for PvP.

7) If mining TANK YOUR FRIGGEN SHIP!

8) Don't **** off people... This is a sure-fire way to get yourself suicide ganked even if it wont be a profit for the gankers.

9) Again because you probably thought I was joking... TANK YOUR FRIGGEN MINING SHIPS!

10) If Can mining, DO NOT! I repeat DO NOT! sick your drones on can flippers... You are giving them the rights to shoot back and they will out pvp a mining ship...

Also quit complaining that concord needs to be buffed or nerfed... It's at the point where ganks in high sec are harder to be profitable at the same time allowing determined individuals to still gank for profit. This is a great balance for High sec since it is meant to be a "Policed" zone...

If you are upset that you cannot gank every ship you see like you can in low/null then too bad THIS IS NOT LOW/NULL!

If you are upset that you find High Sec unsafe, TOO FRIGGEN BAD, IT HAS BEEN BUFFED COUNTLESS TIME'S THAT IT HAS BECOME YOUR OWN FAULT IF YOU ARE GANKED!

Nuff said really....


Edit: Also If all else fails, join one of them big Null alliances that have like half of eve blue leaving little risk to the game...

Play EvE how you want to play it and do not let others dictate how you play. Evolve your playstyle to protect yourself from others! Even in "PVE", "PVP" is there, lurking in the shadows.
ACE McFACE
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#84 - 2012-11-24 23:19:27 UTC
Zaraz Zaraz wrote:
ACE McFACE wrote:
I also noticed this is the third thread you have made about the same thing because the other 2 got locked.



I think the other 2 got locked because of comments on the thread from people other than the OP. Thats what ISD's do; lock threads that have too many naughty comments in them. Thats their JOB.

Also this is from the first one:
Quote:
I have a visceral hatred of the sociopaths in this game.

Quote:
I have been struggling with tactics to blow these asshats out of the sky

Quote:
Most of these creeps are already insta-targets now in high sec

Now, more than ever, we need a dislike button.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#85 - 2012-11-24 23:26:08 UTC
Andski wrote:
The rest of the carebears have already figured out the perfect tactic. They'll throw their lil tantrums on the forums, threaten to unsub and demand that the game is changed to suit their AFK, no-effort playstyle. Trying to game the system and beat the gankers is too much effort - they'd have to pause Netflix and alt tab into the game.

Aren't they gaming the CCP buff/nerf system though, I mean they're alt-tabbing into General Discussion and posting...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#86 - 2012-11-24 23:28:18 UTC
kes88 wrote:
@ Destiny, didn't sound like whining to me, sounded like he just wanted some helpful suggestions on how to deal with it. Sounds like you are the one whining that yet another individual has come to the forums for assistance and they must clearly be looking to CCP to change the system. Not because they just wanted realistic suggestions on what to do, eg take small support fleet etc

But thank you for your incredibly helpful reply which has obviously assisted GD with reaching its dailly quota of douchebag

Hey bro, before you go off and attack someone like that, why not do some research on both the person you're attacking, and the person you're defending? Like for example, check their post histories.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Zaraz Zaraz
Zontik Paraphernalia Inc
#87 - 2012-11-24 23:50:19 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD TYPE40
Do not make personal attacks - CCP Falcon
Some Rando
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#88 - 2012-11-25 00:13:20 UTC
Oopsy Bear wrote:
Add Uedama and Niarja to your avoidance list and make a route going anywhere. See the problem?

I made a route from Villore to Dodixie and I don't see a problem.

CCP has no sense of humour.
Tesal
#89 - 2012-11-25 00:19:03 UTC
Put cans of junk in your cargo hold. The list becomes so long they don't read it.
Some Rando
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#90 - 2012-11-25 00:34:14 UTC
Tesal wrote:
Put cans of junk in your cargo hold. The list becomes so long they don't read it.

There are programs that read the value for you. Simple copy->paste kind of things.

CCP has no sense of humour.
Oopsy Bear
Doomheim
#91 - 2012-11-25 02:26:31 UTC
Some Rando wrote:
Oopsy Bear wrote:
Add Uedama and Niarja to your avoidance list and make a route going anywhere. See the problem?

I made a route from Villore to Dodixie and I don't see a problem.


I guess all the freighters on that route can rest easy then :)
Marvin Narville
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#92 - 2012-11-25 03:03:22 UTC
Mars Theran wrote:


~ One obvious tactic you might not have considered: Get somebody else to fly it with a Courier package. This is probably the best honestly, as you can put a high value on the cargo to protect against potential loss. If they lose it, it becomes their loss, rather than yours. Monetarily speaking anyway.




Excellent point right here. There are numerous corporations out there in game, making respectable profits flying freighters in high/low/null with very few issues. Hell, red/blue/black frog probably flies a combined total of at least 500 trips a day in freighters if their queue tracker is to be believed. Ironically, I see very few posts on behalf of any of the frogs lamenting the impossibility of shipping stuff via freighters. If it were incredibly difficult or there were no tactics to counter ganking, I imagine the frogs would have gone out of business long ago?

As a side note, perhaps red/blue/black frog should have a secondary spin-off business similar to agony unleashed or OUCH, think of it as pvp training for freighter pilots. It would teach basics like how to not be a complete dumbass and load freighters full of plex, perhaps in an advanced class they could cover how to not publicly admit on the forums that you got your freighter full of plex popped while attempting to solicit CCP for changes to game mechanics ultimately embarrasing yourself.

Anywho, sarcasm and humor aside, this wouldn't be a terrible idea. For a reasonable fee, I imagine quite a few people might take up the frogs on the offer to learn how to fly a freighter in a non-suicidal fashion. Those who didn't take them up on the offer would have even less of a legitimate reason to complain than they do currently.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#93 - 2012-11-25 03:15:03 UTC
Marvin Narville wrote:
As a side note, perhaps red/blue/black frog should have a secondary spin-off business similar to agony unleashed or OUCH, think of it as pvp training for freighter pilots. It would teach basics like how to not be a complete dumbass and load freighters full of plex, perhaps in an advanced class they could cover how to not publicly admit on the forums that you got your freighter full of plex popped while attempting to solicit CCP for changes to game mechanics ultimately embarrasing yourself.

If anything people should form the Union of Spacetruckers and demand reforms from CCP otherwise, as we all know, the ~profitable~ freighterganking will lead to...

EVE dying. Cool

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Herr Hammer Draken
#94 - 2012-11-25 05:01:12 UTC
Mars Theran wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
I have been struggling with tactics to neutralize freighter ganking in high sec but unfortunately, I can't envision any.
Most of the gankers are already insta-targets now in high sec, and no one has been able to mount a decent defense.
And I don't see any changes to that fact with the new game mechanics.
In fact, it will be worse.

Is there anyone out there that thinks they have tactics that will work in 2 weeks?


Where is the post where you explain that you aren't looking for tactics that involve scouting or tanking more, or flying with no value cargo, as has been suggested? I'm assuming that you already kn those exist and just chose not to mention them.

~ Freighters can't be fit, so that is a limitation on tactics. All that is left is having someone web you to align faster, as mentioned, and not carrying high value cargo.

~ One obvious tactic you might not have considered: Get somebody else to fly it with a Courier package. This is probably the best honestly, as you can put a high value on the cargo to protect against potential loss. If they lose it, it becomes their loss, rather than yours. Monetarily speaking anyway.

That basically ensures that they will do what they can to protect it, and they do make a business of that. Also, it is relatively inexpensive to contract a courier. This will always work in your favor, provided you don't absolutely have to have that cargo somewhere at a given time for some other purpose where ISK covering its loss is just not enough, and I doubt that's likely.

Think of Freighter ganking as an incentive to use Courier contracts; that is what it really boils down to. Also, it means you don't need, or have to train a Freighter Alt or fly one yourself. That's a pretty good bonus right there.


The last statement sounds an awfull lot like extortion. So now I think the very same guys that gank in udema are also the freighters for hire. Think of it like job insurance.

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"
Riddick Liddell
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#95 - 2012-11-25 05:43:26 UTC
Some Rando wrote:
Riddick Liddell wrote:
CCP know using autopilot isn't what it used to be. They do nothing.

Probably because autopilot hasn't changed one bit.


And yet you feel the need to take things out of context. It's a pattern I see with the forums here. It's called spin by the way.
Some Rando
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#96 - 2012-11-25 06:15:41 UTC
Riddick Liddell wrote:
Some Rando wrote:
Riddick Liddell wrote:
CCP know using autopilot isn't what it used to be. They do nothing.

Probably because autopilot hasn't changed one bit.

And yet you feel the need to take things out of context. It's a pattern I see with the forums here. It's called spin by the way.

So, uh, mind telling me how autopilot isn't what it used to be? I know it'll auto-dock you now, seems like a marked improvement.

CCP has no sense of humour.
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#97 - 2012-11-25 06:44:00 UTC
I don't understand why freighters pilots cannot coordinate, set up a network, and put effort in the job you picked up.

I'm not into it, but I figure as suicide ganking frighters requires a lot of efffort, intelligence and coordination for several pilots. So to face it an equivalent level of intelligence, coordination and effort is needed.

You come on the forum just to hear always the same things: use a scout, do not provide an evaluable target, the web warp trick, check intelligence, the warp trick to prevent cargo scanning, do not use autopilot and bla bla, all things that any average players know.

Also, always this playing the victims having to face an unstoppable ganking force... Freighters are capital ship, freighters pilots are capital pilots, are not entiteled to pose as defenceless noobs. You are dirty ritch, you move bilions of goods from a market to another, you impact the economy for everyone, this cannot be something cheap to do alone half-afk. Or, if done so have to be highly risky.

And even when you did everything right, perfect, any precaution taken, there must be always a chance for something to go wrong, the risk have never to be "nullified". As is for any other EvE gameplay.
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#98 - 2012-11-25 08:00:20 UTC
Is there anyone out there that still thinks that suicide ganking in high sec is NOT a cardinal sin that should be removed somehow simply because some of us don't like it?

To put it bluntly, stop acting like things like suicides/ganks/barge killing is such a mean and cowardly tactic that it shouldn't be allowed. Yes, it sucks to get popped in high sec and loose a freighter, but haven't we all had bad loses from one thing or another? There are already ways to avoid these things.

Sorry if I sound too "f-you" X , had a long day and long days make me agitated to hell and back sometimes. Take it for what it's worth. Use a scout, avoid haulling too much stuff, don't follow the same route continuessly or move the same times of day, and above all else, just follow your gut instinct (cliched, I know, but you'ld be supprised how many times I've narrowly escaped ganks and suicides just because something didn't quite feel right at the time).

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
Zaraz Zaraz
Zontik Paraphernalia Inc
#99 - 2012-11-25 08:18:35 UTC
Sobaan Tali wrote:
Is there anyone out there that still thinks that suicide ganking in high sec is NOT a cardinal sin that should be removed somehow simply because some of us don't like it?

To put it bluntly, stop acting like things like suicides/ganks/barge killing is such a mean and cowardly tactic that it shouldn't be allowed. Yes, it sucks to get popped in high sec and loose a freighter, but haven't we all had bad loses from one thing or another? There are already ways to avoid these things.

Sorry if I sound too "f-you" X , had a long day and long days make me agitated to hell and back sometimes. Take it for what it's worth. Use a scout, avoid haulling too much stuff, don't follow the same route continuessly or move the same times of day, and above all else, just follow your gut instinct (cliched, I know, but you'ld be supprised how many times I've narrowly escaped ganks and suicides just because something didn't quite feel right at the time).


Calm down, its just a game.
Carlos Condit
PJ Ind.
#100 - 2012-11-25 08:52:51 UTC
As someone who has a freighter pilot main, I think freighters need a slight buff, nothing serious though. However there are a million different ways to avoid being ganked, one of which is webbing which is the closest thing to invulnerable as it gets. Also, stop with the AFKing. Most of the kills are on AFK pilots who sit there letting people scan them for ages and letting corps get gank squads together. If you are ATK then you give gankers less time to think about if they want to choose YOU as the target. The last thing is the amount you haul. You can safely haul more than 1bil around the hotspots but when you get crazy and haul around 50+ plex you somewhat deserve it.