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Really confused newbie manufacturer!
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Virancath Krikora
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-11-23 00:33:41 UTC
So I am confused, really confused.

I am looking through the contracts searching for nice BPOs that I can buy cheap and manufactuer at a profit, buying the minerals off the market, making the item, then posting it back up.

So I thought hey I know I'll look into Mining Barges they've shot up in price lots recently!

The one i want to talk about is the Procurer - I found a blueprint with an ME of 170 and I have PE V so very little waste.

I checked the price of the materials needed, which came to a shocking 24.65 million isk! I checked out the current sell price of the procurer and was nice and shocked when I saw 5.8 million isk for one.

What am I missing? Why are people making these? In what world is this a good idea?
Tarendar
Sparkle Pony Inc
#2 - 2012-11-23 00:40:31 UTC
The Procurer took a LOT less minerals to produce, up until the barge changes a few months ago. People are still selling off stocks of barges made back then.

Also, a lot of people mine their own minerals, and then think they got the minerals "for free" when they're manufacturing. The result is that T1 hulls are almost never profitable, selling for or even below the cost of their component minerals.

The upside of this is that when a hull is selling for less than the cost of the minerals, you can buy the hulls, reprocess them, and sell minerals at a profit :)
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#3 - 2012-11-23 00:43:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
You are missing that probably hundreds of thousands of mining ships were manufactured by speculators before the patch that increased the materials required to to build them.

Those same people are now selling their stockpiles at considerable profit, though it may appear to be a loss to manufacture them now.

EDIT: Ships are a very bad place to start manufacturing.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#4 - 2012-11-23 00:45:10 UTC
Tarendar wrote:
The upside of this is that when a hull is selling for less than the cost of the minerals, you can buy the hulls, reprocess them, and sell minerals at a profit :)

Unfortunately that does not apply in the case of mining ships, as the additional minerals are marked as extra, so are not returned via reprocessing (nor do they have waste applied when manufacturing).
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#5 - 2012-11-23 05:18:50 UTC
Tarendar wrote:
The Procurer took a LOT less minerals to produce, up until the barge changes a few months ago. People are still selling off stocks of barges made back then.

Also, a lot of people mine their own minerals, and then think they got the minerals "for free" when they're manufacturing. The result is that T1 hulls are almost never profitable, selling for or even below the cost of their component minerals.

The upside of this is that when a hull is selling for less than the cost of the minerals, you can buy the hulls, reprocess them, and sell minerals at a profit :)


Be wary of buying to reprocess, until you understand the "Extra Materials" mechanic, though.
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#6 - 2012-11-23 06:24:57 UTC
Why reprocess, just buy 10-20 wait till the price comes about and relist and double triple or fair market price.

Nothing wrong with that if you have excess ISK just sitting around collecting dust, just dont spend needed ISK!
Kaltar Re
Ommare Asteroid Removal and Recycling
#7 - 2012-11-23 12:36:59 UTC
Any time people are putting items up for sale for less than the cost to manufacture, there is an opportunity to make a profit off of them if you are careful. In this case, buy the barges at the lower price and repost them. Depending upon the market where you decide to sell, it may take a little while, but you are guaranteed to eventually make up to a 400% profit when the local supply of under-priced vessels is exhausted. These sellers are the impatient ones that want to make their profit (compared to the original cost for them to make the ships) now, rather than wait for the prices to correct.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#8 - 2012-11-23 16:31:54 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
You are missing that probably hundreds of thousands of mining ships were manufactured by speculators before the patch that increased the materials required to to build them.

Those same people are now selling their stockpiles at considerable profit, though it may appear to be a loss to manufacture them now.

EDIT: Ships are a very bad place to start manufacturing.



Yup. After I lost 225.000.000 on T2 Transport ships, I gave up.

There is no competing with fully researched T2 BPO's. Game killing it is indeed.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Matarella
Incognito Mode
Brotherhood of Spacers
#9 - 2012-11-23 23:26:38 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
You are missing that probably hundreds of thousands of mining ships were manufactured by speculators before the patch that increased the materials required to to build them.

Those same people are now selling their stockpiles at considerable profit, though it may appear to be a loss to manufacture them now.

EDIT: Ships are a very bad place to start manufacturing.



Yup. After I lost 225.000.000 on T2 Transport ships, I gave up.

There is no competing with fully researched T2 BPO's. Game killing it is indeed.


obviously you didnt do your research before.

I make a billion a month casually inventing.
Zifrian
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-11-24 01:18:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Zifrian
Matarella wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
You are missing that probably hundreds of thousands of mining ships were manufactured by speculators before the patch that increased the materials required to to build them.

Those same people are now selling their stockpiles at considerable profit, though it may appear to be a loss to manufacture them now.

EDIT: Ships are a very bad place to start manufacturing.



Yup. After I lost 225.000.000 on T2 Transport ships, I gave up.

There is no competing with fully researched T2 BPO's. Game killing it is indeed.


obviously you didnt do your research before.

I make a billion a month casually inventing.

Heh yeah. Seems every few months he'll make a complain post about not making money inventing t2 transports....apparently not realizing there are other items in the game that we all make money off of every day.

OP, people bought barges before the patch that increased the mats to make them. That's what you we seeing. For bps to buy, look into ammo IMO. Get you started anyway. But yeah, do your research and you'll be fine.

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Beckie DeLey
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-11-24 01:26:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Beckie DeLey
Do people still read Krixtal's posts? Seriously now, just put him into the same category as Brewlar Whatshisface and other ... special ... people who are best ignored.


By the way, 500m ISK BPOs are not for people trying out manufacturing. :/

My siren's name is Brick and she is the prettiest.
Kimo Khan
Rage Against All Reds
GunFam
#12 - 2012-11-27 20:09:51 UTC
From my experience as a manufacture, inventor, miner.

T1 Modules don't really make much money, but they can cheapen the cost of T2 production.

T1 Ammo and drones do make a good profit, but you need to be patient to sell the mass volumes.

T2 Modules and Drones, Ammo are good profit, you just need to either find a good cheap BPC or had the patience to keep inventing over and over again (don't be surprised with a string of research failures)

T1 Frigates are pretty good

T1 Industrials are pretty good

T1 Destroyers are pretty good.

T1 Cruisers and above I was not impressed with. They are great for an island market, but on the mainland I just made more profit to time with frigates and destroyers.

T2 Frigates, good profit

T2 Cruisers, loss profit.

T2 Battleship, varies, but its ok.

I don't know much on Capital ships, but according to the numbers if you can afford it, they make money. The time investment on these probably means you would get better profit for time on Frigate, Ammo and Drones, but the large payout for one item looks pretty good.

All of this also depends on your supply market as well. If you live on an island, or in low/null sec with no safe route to get new ships, module and ammo, then the person with the BPO's can make lots of good money.
Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2012-11-27 23:57:52 UTC
Virancath Krikora wrote:
So I am confused, really confused.

I am looking through the contracts searching for nice BPOs that I can buy cheap and manufactuer at a profit, buying the minerals off the market, making the item, then posting it back up.

So I thought hey I know I'll look into Mining Barges they've shot up in price lots recently!

The one i want to talk about is the Procurer - I found a blueprint with an ME of 170 and I have PE V so very little waste.

I checked the price of the materials needed, which came to a shocking 24.65 million isk! I checked out the current sell price of the procurer and was nice and shocked when I saw 5.8 million isk for one.

What am I missing? Why are people making these? In what world is this a good idea?



A few months back when they changed mining barges / exhumers the updated the material requirements to manufacture the ships. This caused players to create tens of thousands of the ships before the patch went live. This bascally allowed players to manufacture thousands of ships at the old requirements.

It will literally be years before you can profit from manufacturing T1 mining ships. Some players have thousands waiting for the prices to go up. This is also why you see so many mining barge bpo's on the market now for sale, because people bought them up to manufacture tons of them, and now will not need the bpo for years.
Hazen Koraka
HK Enterprises
#14 - 2012-11-28 08:45:03 UTC
Can someone please explain the "extra materials" thing? I've noticed this making T1 ships, and didn't have a clue about it. I assume it's more waste, but can it be reduced with ME/PE on a BP? I googled it, came up with :

http://community.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1519134

Which only mentions that its for Tech2/Tech3 manufacturing, and also that it's in bomb manufacturing to stop bombs being used for reprocessing. Can anyone please enlighten me on this mechanic? TIA

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