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Moon mining noob: Choosing moons
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Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#1 - 2012-11-21 17:43:45 UTC
I'm an absolute noob wrt moon mining ... having just deployed my first gaze probe equipped prowler.

Given that my alliance / coalition controls all the tech moons for a long ways around, I am wondering whether there's any joy in trying to mine some of the non-Tech ones. Is it oversimplistic to see the basic moon goo price as being the main indictor of value ... ofc coupled with being able to find suitable moons?

So far it looks like I have a fair few platinum, and several dysprosium moons easily accessible. Are they the way to go, or should I be looking elsewhere?

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#2 - 2012-11-21 18:09:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Bugsy VanHalen
well if your alliance is hauling the tech to Jita to sell, see if you can buy some off them locally. It will save them some hauling.

Then set up your moon mining on a moon with platinum, and react it with the tech you import to make PT technite. You could make billions per month off this reaction. Especially if your alliance is willing to sell you some of the tech they are pulling.
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2012-11-21 20:47:27 UTC
Thanks very much.

Yes, I did notice that reaction in the guides I’ve been browsing through, and it did influence my thoughts that Platinum might be a good goo for me to mine … along with the half-dozen unoccupied platinum moons I’ve found so far.
It seems that platinum, in raw form, demands a pretty good price. Also, coupled with tech, it makes for a decent second tier material.

I believe our coalition does have such a program and I’ll go wiki browsing to see if I can find details.

I think I’ll setup a barebones platinum moon, just harvesting to start with. After seeing how that goes for a while I’ll look at upgrading along the lines you’re suggesting.

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.
Lord Battlestar
CALIMA COLLABORATIVE
Atrox Urbanis Respublique Abundatia
#4 - 2012-11-21 20:48:47 UTC
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
well if your alliance is hauling the tech to Jita to sell, see if you can buy some off them locally. It will save them some hauling.

Then set up your moon mining on a moon with platinum, and react it with the tech you import to make PT technite. You could make billions per month off this reaction. Especially if your alliance is willing to sell you some of the tech they are pulling.


I agree with Bugsy, also look at this page as it explains more than just the initial set up. Look at the market for the reaction blueprints and see which outputs will be profitable with the moons your alliance may let yourself set up at (in case they are unable to supply you technium). You can also try alchemy with platinum technite, but it requires a bit more work.

I once podded myself by blowing a huge fart.
Shadowschild
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-11-21 21:19:32 UTC
I've had 2 large Caldari control towers generating complex reactions. It was very profitable up until Planetary interaction. Then fuel started to eat into my profits. So I tried ice mining & that became so boring it wasn't worth the time. Then a mineral I had to buy started to spike & my control towers started to only brake even, This went on for ~2-3 months.

Once you factor in that your competing with the other sells too, and prices will only go down it became an expensive & a huge time sink (every weekend for 1 hour 1/2 hauling back & forth).
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#6 - 2012-11-22 00:09:05 UTC
I would take the advice most, take their time to just give out with a grain of salt.

Technetium, is a gigantic bottleneck, you should make attempts at making at-least small amounts on your own, this should be your primary focus while you spend a month or 2 getting your feet wet.

First study the new reactions added to the game.
Then, do some serious exploration, you should focus mainly on tehnatium, tungsten,, cobalt, and other base materials you can see from Jita local as heavy movers, any of those will do but, Technatium and Cobalt based goods should be your primary focus, as in 90% of focus.

Once you get a basic understanding of whats what when it comes to tech, that's when you should begin focusing on modernizing and overhauling your operation into a robust income stream with growth of profits in mind for the foreseeable futures, dont be afraid to shut down moons and take down POS's if you spot a better opportunity, keep progressing until you see fit to stop and begin reaping in the trade route final product.

But dont stop there.

Train up, 3 characters for max science slots, 2 of them just to make blueprint copy's and one of them for invention and other misc capabilities, a Medium POS should be ample for researching and blueprint copy'ing.

You don't need to haul your goods to Jita, a good portion, if not all can be sold at fair prices right to your alliance mates, they will be more then happy to take them off your hands right there in nulsec to avoid the wasteful Jita import ordeal.
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#7 - 2012-11-26 00:16:31 UTC
Thanks very much for the comments.

I did some basic math and, it seems, that non-tech moon mining has a very slim (if any) profit margin and doesn’t return at all well on the assets invested.

The unattractive bottom line seemed to be that I’d make more isk profit running half a forsaken hub per day than I would from any sub-tech moon. For that forsaken hub I use a 1-2b isk machariel / vindicator with ammo as the main consumable, and for the moon mining I’d use a 0.5b isk POS with POS fuel as the main consumable plus a pretty expensive logistics support chain burning isotopes and LO to haul stuff to-and-fro.

I’m still going to give it a try and have some small-POS setups in the JF hold atm waiting to be transported in … but am a little troubled by the apparent poor return.

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.
Jacabon Mere
Capital Storm.
Out of the Blue.
#8 - 2012-11-26 02:24:22 UTC
Except for tech and neo, moon mining isn't very lucrative. The money is in reaction chains. You really want to be making a complex material using an as efficient pos setup as possible. For carbides this is 2 large caldari pos's, one on a gas pair and one on the r8 or r16 material, and purchasing the one you can't mine. Profits will be between 200 and 300 mil per week with some logistics between them every few days.

Capital Storm is recruiting Aussies for Lowsec pvp and money making. Join "Capital Storm Pub" channel ingame. www.capitalstorm.net
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-11-26 16:48:48 UTC
because you hold sov, towers will burn a little less fuel then normal, also PI will be better in your area of null then in hisec so your manufacturing of both towers, and fuel can be cheaper then shipping it in to hisec to sell or buy.

Try looking at full or partial reaction chains and not the base mined materials.
the use of mixed sizes of towers is also in your favor.

manufacturing for fuel can be added to towers for very little loss if you do not have a station nearby meaning the only thing you have to jump in is ice parts, unless you can get that locally as well.

use small towers to mine one or two materials out of a moon to be moved to either a medium or large for other reaction chains. If you have the right moons a full reaction chain can also be done with two large caldari towers. figuring 2 non faction sov bonused towers you are looking at 46,080 blocks per 30 days (or 230,400 m/3)

even without the right moons using small towers or mediums to augment your mining and simple reactions for the lower cost moon materials will free up space in the larger towers for processing or other pos activities.

Consider Sylarmic fibers, which needs 100 units of Silicates, Evaporate deposits, Platinum, and Chromium per hour.
It produces 200 units of Ceramic powder and hexite
the last reaction step produces 6,000 sylarmic fibers.

reaction chain is thus - (depending of course on your moons)

Harvester - Coupling array - Simple reactor - Silo (A) - Coupling array - Complex reactor - silo
Harvester - Coupling array / . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Silo (B) - Coupling array /

once its started, depending of course on the final set up, you have to move material from the simple reactors silo A (on tower 1) to silo B on the second tower, and vice-a-verse once every two days. You end with the final output of 12,000 sylarmic fibers for a cost of 64 fuel blocks, an hour.

make a note of all the moons and the material combinations you have available to you and figure the optimal setups for you, with increased cost you can make the cycles longer for easier management.

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#10 - 2012-11-26 20:46:54 UTC
Kusum Fawn wrote:

Consider Sylramic fibers, which needs 100 units of Silicates, Evaporate deposits, Platinum, and Chromium per hour.


Wow, thanks. That is great news. Very conveniently, in my ratting / PI system, I have a decent outpost as well as unoccupied moons with each of those materials. I’ve just jumped some small Minnie towers, moon mining modules, and POS-fuel into area and so will start setting up the harvesting arm of that operation. Once I’m a little more savvy with moon mining I’ll grab a large / medium caldari tower or two and setup the higher level processing.

The advice and responses here have been very helpful and, clearly, very knowledgeable. TYVM.

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.
Leopold Jakuard
State Of Unrest
#11 - 2012-11-27 01:07:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Leopold Jakuard
Platinum is definitely a good moon goo to mine. Since they are so common, you can just put a small POS and you won't have to worry about hostiles trying to blow up your POS. I'd rather be worried by your own alliance trying to grab them for the "greater good of the alliance" ;). If you don't mind handling more than one POS at the same time (you said you found 6+ moons with Platinum), then go for it, as in the end it will providing an income very similar to a single Neod moon.

You willl see that other than the initial investment (6x POS with fuel) and the the time to set it all up, you will have little to no work to do other than importing you fuel and exporting your poo to Jita. Make sure you follow a bit the price of Platinum, so that you sort of know when to sell it. Now would be a good time as it is 9k ++ per unit, compared to 6k a couple of weeks ago and 4-5k one month ago :).

It is also, IMO, less work than a POS with moon-mining and reactions.

EDIT : Terrible english