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Taking down a hi-sec POS
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Doddy
Excidium.
#21 - 2012-10-19 14:06:26 UTC
Yeah cos running a smarty on a mach in hi sec is a good idea.
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#22 - 2012-10-19 15:52:26 UTC
not only is smartbomb stupid, but ammo costs for mach are crazy when doing pos shoot.
mach dps is nice, but you are doing pos bash wrong.

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Reppyk
The Black Shell
#23 - 2012-10-19 16:42:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Reppyk
LordulSoare wrote:
I am shocked how low the dps of some ppl is. this is a huge building static and you can be in optimal range...com on with Macariel i do like 1100 dps alone...ok you do not go with that on you go with thornado whey cheaper. still you get something like 800 dps with good skills...but com on 4 bs with sentry and guns to do just 1000 dps...this is like wtf...get some skills in 4 ppl.Lol

LordulSoare wrote:
ok just went in eft and put 4 gyro 3 track + 4 garde + one large EMP bomb t2. 1.5 k dps com on how much dps do you need more:)
just pay attention to local cos after all you are wardec
Uh.

Look, my son. This is the definition of a "bad poster". Don't become like him.

PS : 1.5k DPS is not that much and we almost never use gardes to shoot POSes, but eh, keep playing with EFT and tell us how to do it.

I AM SPACE CAPTAIN REPPYK. BEWARE.

Proud co-admin of frugu.net, a French fansite about EVE !
Max Godsnottlingson
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2012-10-20 09:14:39 UTC
Err, I know that this may seem a bit obvious. But have you thought about contacting the owners first? I hit a similer situation once and did just that.
Ok, I may have just got lucky, but one of the owning Corps got back to me. Not only did they take down thier POS and kit, but we also did a nice deal which has the POS back up in another system, but under my ownership
Trader Kim
Unknown Guardians
#25 - 2012-10-21 05:32:00 UTC
or you can just buy a moon off me.

3 jumps from jita
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=165060&find=unread
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#26 - 2012-10-22 16:09:15 UTC
LordulSoare wrote:
I am shocked how low the dps of some ppl is. this is a huge building static and you can be in optimal range...com on with Macariel i do like 1100 dps alone...ok you do not go with that on you go with thornado whey cheaper. still you get something like 800 dps with good skills...but com on 4 bs with sentry and guns to do just 1000 dps...this is like wtf...get some skills in 4 ppl.Lol

1000 DPS each, not cumulative. 4 ships doing at least 1000 DPS each can take down a small ofline POS in about 1 hour. Even a DPS fitted Cane can do 650-700 with +4 gyro's and T2 auto cannons. if you are not worried about ammo you can get over 1200 out of a raven or over 1400 out of a golem. I said 1000 DPS because it is easy to fit a BS that can do over 1000 DPS.
A properly fit DPS macariel can do 1400-1600 DPS if you want to risk a faction BS in a POS bash.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#27 - 2012-10-22 16:15:54 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
Once you get 8 jumps or more from jita it is easy to find a system with open moons, under 100,000isk per month office rental, Good agents, a station with 50% refinery, cloning facilities, belonging to a corp you want to run missions for.

Given that rentals start at 10k, aiming for 100k rent would considerably narrow your choices.

I'm currently paying ~8m, and have had that vary up to ~25m. Generally the less affluent corps start to leave the station once it breaks ~15m, but I have seen better stations at well over ~50m (the station I'm in only lacks manufacturing lines).

Keep in mind that 30m-40m is one decent level 4 mission a month. A large control tower is about 350m on average, or about 10 more missions per month if you don't make a single ISK with it.

I am currently in a station 7 jumps from jita with lvl 4 agents in system. a 50% refinery in home station, and paying 30,000 isk per month rental. But I had to clear a dead POS to get a moon. I never said having to pay up to 25 mil is not workable. but if I can keep that isk in my pocket why spend it? If you are 8 jumps from Jita anyway, a little work can net you a corp office for under 100,000 isk per month.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#28 - 2012-10-22 16:24:30 UTC
Max Godsnottlingson wrote:
Err, I know that this may seem a bit obvious. But have you thought about contacting the owners first? I hit a similer situation once and did just that.
Ok, I may have just got lucky, but one of the owning Corps got back to me. Not only did they take down their POS and kit, but we also did a nice deal which has the POS back up in another system, but under my ownership

This often works, after all the war dec will cost you 50 mil. Offer the 50 mil to the owning corp for them to take the POS down. It is the same cost but saves you the work of the POS bash.

The problem is many dead POSes belong to dead/inactive corps. In which case the only way to remove them is to bash them.

The thing is if you have enough accounts to make full use of a POS and have it make a profit over and above fuel costs. You probably can field at least 4 1000 DPS boats, which makes a Small dead tower easy to take down.
Reppyk
The Black Shell
#29 - 2012-10-22 17:05:53 UTC
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
1000 DPS each, not cumulative. 4 ships doing at least 1000 DPS each can take down a small ofline POS in about 1 hour.
A bit more than 1h, but yes that's the scale.

I AM SPACE CAPTAIN REPPYK. BEWARE.

Proud co-admin of frugu.net, a French fansite about EVE !
Priestess Natasha
Nox Incurro
#30 - 2012-11-12 11:34:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Priestess Natasha
I've used 3 alts over the last couple of days to take out some Sm Cal Offline towers.

Using 3 of the following took me a little over an hour.
Yes yes no tank...but who gives a ****, you're deccing inactive 1-10 man corps.

Obviously if your skills arent up to it or you need to reload for other races, your mileage will vary.



[Armageddon, POS]

7x Mega Pulse Laser II (Conflagration L)

3x Cap Recharger II

3x Drone Damage Amplifier II
5x Heat Sink II

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

5x Ogre II

Capacitor (Stable at 42.42%)

Volley Damage: 5,401.64
DPS: 1,595.86


Edit: Forgot to say that those numbers include the 5% Surgical Strike and 5% Large energy turret implants
David Zahavi
Doomheim
#31 - 2012-11-21 15:38:19 UTC  |  Edited by: David Zahavi
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
Max Godsnottlingson wrote:
Err, I know that this may seem a bit obvious. But have you thought about contacting the owners first? I hit a similer situation once and did just that.
Ok, I may have just got lucky, but one of the owning Corps got back to me. Not only did they take down their POS and kit, but we also did a nice deal which has the POS back up in another system, but under my ownership

This often works, after all the war dec will cost you 50 mil. Offer the 50 mil to the owning corp for them to take the POS down. It is the same cost but saves you the work of the POS bash.

The problem is many dead POSes belong to dead/inactive corps. In which case the only way to remove them is to bash them.

The thing is if you have enough accounts to make full use of a POS and have it make a profit over and above fuel costs. You probably can field at least 4 1000 DPS boats, which makes a Small dead tower easy to take down.


science and industry SP =/= dps chars who aren't already in a real alliance

Very frustrating for those of us with our dps chars all committed to null sec warfare, and our high sec care bear alts all in science/indy.

MY QUESTION:
Does anyone know if its possible for a ~460 dps oracle (my indy alts best bet) to solo a large caldari pos? Using pulse/multifrequency and 3 heat sinks....

I'm most worried about being able to overcome the large towers passive regen.

Also, about how long will this take, and will down time ruin all my plans?
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#32 - 2012-11-21 17:58:13 UTC
David Zahavi wrote:
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
Max Godsnottlingson wrote:
Err, I know that this may seem a bit obvious. But have you thought about contacting the owners first? I hit a similer situation once and did just that.
Ok, I may have just got lucky, but one of the owning Corps got back to me. Not only did they take down their POS and kit, but we also did a nice deal which has the POS back up in another system, but under my ownership

This often works, after all the war dec will cost you 50 mil. Offer the 50 mil to the owning corp for them to take the POS down. It is the same cost but saves you the work of the POS bash.

The problem is many dead POSes belong to dead/inactive corps. In which case the only way to remove them is to bash them.

The thing is if you have enough accounts to make full use of a POS and have it make a profit over and above fuel costs. You probably can field at least 4 1000 DPS boats, which makes a Small dead tower easy to take down.


science and industry SP =/= dps chars who aren't already in a real alliance

Very frustrating for those of us with our dps chars all committed to null sec warfare, and our high sec care bear alts all in science/indy.

MY QUESTION:
Does anyone know if its possible for a ~460 dps oracle (my indy alts best bet) to solo a large caldari pos? Using pulse/multifrequency and 3 heat sinks....

I'm most worried about being able to overcome the large towers passive regen.

Also, about how long will this take, and will down time ruin all my plans?


I don't believe the DPS on that ship would even keep up with the shield regen. I believe shield regen on a large POS is around 750 DPS.

Even if you could slowly chew it down, I doubt you would be able to reinforce it in the 23 hours between downtime. On a small POS it could work, would take a while though. A single ship with good DPS should be able to take down a small POS in 5-6 hours. Large POS is not just 4 times the EHP but also 4 times the shield regen. When bashing a large POS the shield regen usually eats the damage from one ship. I would not recommend even trying to take down a large POS with less than 5-6 ships. And even that will take a long time.
Reppyk
The Black Shell
#33 - 2012-11-21 18:16:16 UTC
David Zahavi wrote:
Does anyone know if its possible for a ~460 dps oracle (my indy alts best bet) to solo a large caldari pos? Using pulse/multifrequency and 3 heat sinks....

I'm most worried about being able to overcome the large towers passive regen.

Also, about how long will this take, and will down time ruin all my plans?
You can't pass the shield regen (by only a tiny bit).
And 460dps for an oracle is very very low ; with good skills you get 800dps.

I AM SPACE CAPTAIN REPPYK. BEWARE.

Proud co-admin of frugu.net, a French fansite about EVE !
David Zahavi
Doomheim
#34 - 2012-11-21 18:33:48 UTC  |  Edited by: David Zahavi
Reppyk wrote:
David Zahavi wrote:
Does anyone know if its possible for a ~460 dps oracle (my indy alts best bet) to solo a large caldari pos? Using pulse/multifrequency and 3 heat sinks....

I'm most worried about being able to overcome the large towers passive regen.

Also, about how long will this take, and will down time ruin all my plans?
You can't pass the shield regen (by only a tiny bit).
And 460dps for an oracle is very very low ; with good skills you get 800dps.


Lol, yeah, its a new alt with low skills, and most skills he does have are in science.

How much combined dps is needed to overcome the passive regen and get the tower down.

Also, its offline, there is no reinforcement.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#35 - 2012-11-21 19:44:15 UTC
Sorry I was wrong.

Passive shield regen on an offline large Caldari tower is 250 DPS not 750 DPS. Based on 50,000,000 shield divided by 200,000 second recharge time. So 450 DPS could in theory take down a large towers shield in 69.5 hours plus down time and any regen it got thru down time. Then you have 4,000,000 armor, and 4,000,000 structure to burn through. Which should in theory take another 11 hours.

So if you were able to log on every day right after down time and start shooting you could in theory be able to take down a large offline tower in 100 hours or so doing 450 DPS accounting for down time and passive regen.

Large off line towers still have full shields, they just do not have the force field bubble online towers have. However online towers also have hardeners increasing the EHP well beyond 58,000,000.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#36 - 2012-11-21 20:20:54 UTC
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
Sorry I was wrong.

Passive shield regen on an offline large Caldari tower is 250 DPS not 750 DPS. Based on 50,000,000 shield divided by 200,000 second recharge time.

Remember that shield recharge is not linear (same formula as capacitor recharge).
Agrippa Arkaral
Rogue Inferno.
Pandemic Horde
#37 - 2012-11-21 20:27:39 UTC
Another way of finding empty moons is with combat scanner probes.

Assuming you have a prober on hand:
1. Set your probing filter to Control Towers only.
2. Enter system, launch drones, set them to lowest scan radius.
3. Move probes to the first cluster of moons, spread them around a bit, hit scan.
4. Look for moons that have no green mark (Tower) or station on them, you should be able to anchor your pos there.
5. Repeat scanning for every unscanned cluster of moons.

This may be a bit of a hassle, but it scans down systems with 20 moons as fast as systems with 100 moons, and you aren't reliant on having to count t
Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2012-11-21 20:37:27 UTC
David Zahavi wrote:
Reppyk wrote:
David Zahavi wrote:
Does anyone know if its possible for a ~460 dps oracle (my indy alts best bet) to solo a large caldari pos? Using pulse/multifrequency and 3 heat sinks....

I'm most worried about being able to overcome the large towers passive regen.

Also, about how long will this take, and will down time ruin all my plans?
You can't pass the shield regen (by only a tiny bit).
And 460dps for an oracle is very very low ; with good skills you get 800dps.


Lol, yeah, its a new alt with low skills, and most skills he does have are in science.

How much combined dps is needed to overcome the passive regen and get the tower down.

Also, its offline, there is no reinforcement.


The most important factor in taking down a POS tower (well any structure) is time. No one wants to spend 10 hours a day for 2 days grinding a structure, so you're better off figuring out how much DPS you need per hour, and then fill that hourly need with ships.

For example. You want to take down a tower in 5 hours. A large Caldari control tower will have 58,000,000 hp. You will need to do at least 3472 dps to meet the 5 hour timeline.

The above numbers I'm sure are far from accurate, but should help with understanding what should be considered before taking on a task like attempting to take down a POS.
David Zahavi
Doomheim
#39 - 2012-11-21 23:17:53 UTC  |  Edited by: David Zahavi
I recruited all my alts, spent all their unallocated skill points and have them in 220dps harbys bashing away with my oracle now.

Another friend also made 3 1 day old alts to put on the tower shooting about 80 dps each, combined to about 240.

So about 1k dps total between us all.

Do you think that will be enough to overcome the pos shield when it is at its strongest recharge at just over 25%?

By my calculations the average recharge rate of the shield is 250, with it hitting 650 at its peak of 25%, and then all down hill after that. I'm most worried that I'm going to be hitting around 25% at down time >.>

Guess we'll pick it up from there after that and see if we can really overcome it in any meaningful amount of time.

Now I wish I'd payed better attention in calculus 10 years ago so I could set up the forumla and find out exactly how much HP we have to eat through total including shield recharge with our current dps.

(especially since a fleet with more DPS has to deal with less time of the shield recharging, making me feel that high sec poses are a cruel joke CCP decided to use in order to troll most newbie industrialists.)




EDIT: And what is the best way to find a reliable merc corp that would be willing to help?
Karig'Ano Keikira
Tax Cheaters
#40 - 2012-11-22 13:20:41 UTC
speaking about towers and mercs, I had this problem myself - you can find moons reasonably close to Jita (4-6 jumps) but it can be pain in the butt :(
how much do mercs charge for services like this? say... blowing up offline pos that (likely) belongs to dead corp. Or... blowing up not offline pos that belongs to not so good friend of mine and his 3 men corp? :)
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