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Dev Blog: Inventory Improvements

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CCP RubberBAND
CCP Engineering Corp
#61 - 2012-11-20 17:57:27 UTC
Xikuan wrote:
Nice work, the changes look nice.

While you are looking into corp hanger permissions, would it be possible to address the issue of not being able to directly drag items from a corporate hanger to the trade window? At the moment (even if you have the correct permissions) you must first move it to your personal hanger before trading it.

I understand this would probably be a small use case, but for test_free (the program that we have to give out free ships to newbies from the corp hanger) this is used very heavily and would make our lives easier.


Will do. This is a defect, will investigate if there is a technical reason we cannot allow users to drag directly from a division to the trade window. A few people have mentioned it in this thread so I would assume that this is a problem for more than some.

Feel free to poke me on: Twitter
CCP Arrow
C C P
C C P Alliance
#62 - 2012-11-20 18:00:31 UTC
Undeadenemy wrote:
Please please please please PLEASE give us a check box to disable this feature.

They can be changed or cleared via "Shortcuts - General" in the Esc Menu. Big smile

Also if you are using the Back or Forward buttons on your mouse for Push-to-Talk, (like I do myself) it might be good to open SetPoint or whatever software you use to set up your mouse. There you can change what these buttons do by default and set a custom function for them per software, which allows you to turn them off for Browsers only, for example.

CCP Arrow   |   Director of User Experience   |   EVE Online   |   @CCP_Arrow
Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#63 - 2012-11-20 18:01:15 UTC
CCP Arrow wrote:
Marcel Devereux wrote:
NOTE: THIS IS NOT A TROLL

I can't tell the difference between the limited and restricted icons. My digital color meter is telling me the limited is 115,101,34 and the restricted is 136,47,34 but I can't tell them apart as it falls too much into the golden/greenish area. Can you make it more yellow (like the wreck icons)?

Which type of color blindness is it? We tested this out using both Protanopia and Deuteranopia and it had a visible difference between the two types. Let me know what type of color blindness it is and I'll look into it for you.

Hope that helps.


I have all kinds of problems with colors. The more distinctive the color the easier it is for me to tell what it is (sometimes). When the shades are close together I cant distinguish the color. In this case of these two icons the only way for me to tell that they are different colors is to use the digital color meter. To me they both look red.
Galmas
United System's Commonwealth
#64 - 2012-11-20 18:01:23 UTC
This is positive feedback! Five stars! Awesome stuff! GOGOGO!!!! :)
Qvar Dar'Zanar
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#65 - 2012-11-20 18:06:50 UTC
I'm gonna cry tears of joy.
Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#66 - 2012-11-20 18:10:46 UTC
Wonderful to see such great new additions and fixes. I wanted to add 2 things that may have been overlooked.

1) When clicking on an Orca and opening the corporate hangars the focus is taken from your current window and is set to the hangars. In most situations (at least in my experience) players opening a hangar are doing so to put items into the hangars, not to take from. This basically means almost every time you open a hangar you need to click back to what you had open previously, and in the situation of a miner it would be back to their ore hold. It may not sound like much but when you have 5 players/miners having to re-open the corp hangars every 15 - 20 minutes and then reset focus back to the ore hold where the window focus was previously and then drag and drop to the hangars it begins to become a very annoying ui feature.

And yes I know corp hangars will be replaced with fleet hangars, but I'm guessing this functionality will also be carried over to these hangars.


2) Blueprints. Sorting and searching for blueprints vs blue print copies. There isn't a way to separate between these two items, either within an inventory window, or within the filter system. Now I understand the difficulity of seperating the two items because a bpc is a bpo but with a llimited number of runs.

What I think would work great is when filtering blueprints there are no real useful options to filter blueprints by. For example ME level greater then 0, or requires > then minteral type amount. If we could sort blueprints by for example licensed production runs remaining = infinite or > 1000 or < 5 we could then easily have a system that allows us to filter / sort between BPC's and BPO's.
Soma Khan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#67 - 2012-11-20 18:11:42 UTC
thank you very much those changes are great!

is it possible for the in-game web browser to have the same scroll-bars as the other windows?
87102-6
Doomheim
#68 - 2012-11-20 18:12:29 UTC
Great blog post, with lots of useful and well-thought-out information. I look forward to some of these improvements (the others I probably won't use just based on my usage habits).

Finally, a cosmetic issue that's been nagging my OCD for quite some time:

Is there a particular reason an item's text name changes to a darker grey (and remains that way until either re-opening the window entirely or doing Stack All) after the item has been selected + deselected? (Yes, the RGB values actually differ) If so, what is the reason? If you want screenshots showing it, or an official in-game bug made for it, I'm happy to provide either.

Things like this, as well as Bug 144789, indicate to me that some CCP devs (as well as QA) lack good eyes for pixel-level details. Shame.
Takeshi Yamato
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#69 - 2012-11-20 18:13:51 UTC
Very nice.

Any chance to separate the solar system map from the galaxy map? They really are two completely different things and currently they are assigned to the same shortcut and switching between them requires clicking a button.
Tinukeda'ya Naskingar
Minmatar Expeditions ltd.
#70 - 2012-11-20 18:15:40 UTC
Thanks for the changes those all look very nice.

One thing I would like to see is a way to rename the divisions inside POS structures. Any chance on having that?

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." -  Arthur C. Clarke
Dex Tera
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#71 - 2012-11-20 18:15:53 UTC
inb4 "roll it back"
Elegbara
White Wolf Enterprises
Harmonious Ascent
#72 - 2012-11-20 18:15:57 UTC
I don't like how locking in the secure containers currently works with regards to different clients/installations. Basically the choice whether an item put into secure container will be locked depends on client settings, not on the container itself. Will that be changed?

Open your eyes. And awaken.
CCP Arrow
C C P
C C P Alliance
#73 - 2012-11-20 18:16:56 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Arrow
87102-6 wrote:
Is there a particular reason an item's text name changes to a darker grey (and remains that way until either re-opening the window entirely or doing Stack All) after the item has been selected + deselected? (Yes, the RGB values actually differ) If so, what is the reason? If you want screenshots showing it, or an official in-game bug made for it, I'm happy to provide either.


It was a defect that has been resolved in the Retribution build. Nice work spotting it though Idea

CCP Arrow   |   Director of User Experience   |   EVE Online   |   @CCP_Arrow
Irregessa
Obfuscation and Reflections
#74 - 2012-11-20 18:28:40 UTC
:sigh:

I was the one that opened the FanFest roundtable bringing up issues about how the colorblind see things. Looking through the blog, I came to the 'limited access' vs. 'no access' icons for hangars. I can barely tell the difference between the yellow and red being used.

I will ask again what I said at that round table: Please use a different symbol. Maybe use an X in the circle for the 'no access'. It isn't like we are trying to see something that is encircled and crossed by the icon, like you would on a road sign to tell you what is prohibited. Relying on color alone to distinguish states is incredibly frustrating to me in the rest of my life (I work support for an equipment manufacturer who unfortunately uses 'amber' and 'red' for the same LED to distinguish states. I have to get a co-worker to look at them to see what they are for me). I really don't need it in a game.

Thank you.
Panhead4411
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services
The Possum Lodge
#75 - 2012-11-20 18:37:29 UTC
This. Is. What. It. Should. Have. Been. Released. As First. This is exactly what we were asking for when we gave you our feedback in the first week of SiSi testing, while begging you to delay release. (instead of botching all the feedback that told you to do it this way while it was on SiSi for a month, then taking NINE months to figure it out it wasn't ready, with only a few token 'tweeks' after promising "weekly fixes till its as good")

Seriously, i would have gladly, ever so gladly, traded the last 9 months of crap for a delay of this 'improved feature' if this is how it is now. It is finally equal to the previous non-unified version in functionality and work flow. Sad thing is, if one goes back and looks at the initial feedback from SiSi, it describes this new awesome version. Why oh why could you not listen to us the first time? (have you learned your lesson now?) After this update i will no longer hate on the Uni Inv, only to hate on how arrogant the Dev's were through that whole process. (and in some limited cases continue to be)

If you guys ever realize the current public image of where you are taking the capitol "corp hanger" is in the completely wrong direction, this will be an epic update.

Glad you finally understood that we wanted the cargo-capacity visible while not needing that insanely useless border around our cargo holds and Ore holds. (Still not sure how that made it past the design phase, since you all claim to actually play this game)

Glad the fleet hanger no longer closes itself upon session change.

And i bet your payroll/subscription department is wishing you would have listened to all the feedback the first time, b/c then if you would have delayed pushing that pile of Pre-Beta crap on us in march, you might not have had near as many unsubs...as this is what it should have been, and you would have received few unsubs. Just a guess though.

http://blog.beyondreality.se/shift-click-does-nothing    < Unified Inventory is NOT ready...
Awateru
Caldari Reclaimation Front
#76 - 2012-11-20 18:52:03 UTC
CCP Arrow wrote:
Marcel Devereux wrote:
NOTE: THIS IS NOT A TROLL

I can't tell the difference between the limited and restricted icons. My digital color meter is telling me the limited is 115,101,34 and the restricted is 136,47,34 but I can't tell them apart as it falls too much into the golden/greenish area. Can you make it more yellow (like the wreck icons)?

Which type of color blindness is it? We tested this out using both Protanopia and Deuteranopia and it had a visible difference between the two types. Let me know what type of color blindness it is and I'll look into it for you.

Hope that helps.


Could you please include a different icon, like possibly a '?' for limited, or a circle with a single line through it for limited versus a circle with an 'X' through it for restricted?
Tek Handle
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#77 - 2012-11-20 18:55:14 UTC
**** yeah!!!

One thing: Could you move the restriction icon in front of the corporation hangar name? Or maybe have it overlap the hangar icon to save some room. ♥
Lykouleon
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#78 - 2012-11-20 18:59:09 UTC
Quote:
But we don't want to rush into anything and are carefully taking one step at a time in order to do things properly


****, they're learning. Clevah girls.

Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER so I can hit them with my sword
Moraguth
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#79 - 2012-11-20 19:09:17 UTC
CCP Arrow wrote:
Marcel Devereux wrote:
NOTE: THIS IS NOT A TROLL

I can't tell the difference between the limited and restricted icons. My digital color meter is telling me the limited is 115,101,34 and the restricted is 136,47,34 but I can't tell them apart as it falls too much into the golden/greenish area. Can you make it more yellow (like the wreck icons)?

Which type of color blindness is it? We tested this out using both Protanopia and Deuteranopia and it had a visible difference between the two types. Let me know what type of color blindness it is and I'll look into it for you.

Hope that helps.


Instead of just using the same icon with a different color, could you make a slightly different icon to show the difference too?
Circle with a slash to show that you have partial access to a hangar. Circle with an X through it to indicate you have no access. Then the color wouldn't matter.

I got a Feature Added!

Stop calling an Abaddon "abba-dawn".  It is "uh-bad-in" dictionary.com/abaddon
Undeadenemy
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2012-11-20 19:09:47 UTC
nikon56 wrote:
Undeadenemy wrote:
Overall, very awesome changes to the inventory. It looks like you're going to fix a lot of annoyances.

One big point of concern (for me especially):

Quote:
You will also notice a set of ‘<<’ and ‘>>’ icons to the left of the View mode icons in the Inventory window. These are the Back and Forward buttons to move between the inventories in the order you selected them within the same window. You will also be able to use the mouse to go back and forward, if you have a mouse with such buttons.


Please please please please PLEASE give us a check box to disable this feature.

I use the thumb buttons on my mouse to talk on TS, and when I have reason to have multiple TS/Vent/Mumble clients open, I use the other thumb button to work the second client. Needless to say, when I'm trying to browse the web and talk on TS, it is a HUGE pain in the ass. Every time someone asks me a question or says something to me that needs a response, I end up either going backward or forward on the internet if I have focus on the browser. When I read the highlighted statement, my thoughts immediately went to fighting with the inventory while trying to talk on TS. Overall, anything that improves ease of use is a good thing, but understand that there are going to be a significant number of players out there in my situation, and for them it will be a major headache, probably the BIGGEST headache of the patch.

why you don't then attribute another config to those buttons in your drivers, then match them to your voip software?

i too use the middle thumb button for the push-to-talk, and because of simiar issue i sat up a mapping and then it works


Because I don't know how to do that. I also tried downloading a program off my mouse manufacturers website, but it wanted to use cloud software which I'm not crazy about. Besides, if I'm understanding you correctly, doing what you suggest won't solve the problem. As long as the EVE Client or a web browser recognizes my mouse button click as "go back" the annoyance of having my inventory flip back a page every time I try to talk on TS will remain. I understand the usefulness of the feature, I'm just asking that CCP please allow me to disable it in the options.

While browsing the web, out of 100 uses of the button: 99 of them were unwanted interactions with the web browser, and maybe 1 was me actually wanting the go back a web page. What I'm saying here is, for many people this particular feature is going to be FAR FAR more annoying than helpful. Also, the answer isn't for the person to change their key bindings or modify drivers to work around some feature. Where ever possible, software should be designed to be customizable for users. This is one of those cases where it would be easy enough for CCP to give me the option to disable this feature.