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Effective Hit Points, How to read it...

Author
Zoctrine
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-11-16 16:27:01 UTC
So,

I just lost my ship, it had a 12,967 EHP, looking at the KM it states that my “total damage taken” was 7,938... Shocked WTF... Am I missing something here? I should've survived that, right?

Then I decide to check on the pod KM as well and its the same thing, pod has 482 EHP and the KM states I got total damage at 460...

Either I don't understand what Effective Hit Points means and/or how its applied, or the KM information is not correct or omissive...

Any help is much appreciated, thank you.
Savnire Jacitu
Abysmal Gentlemen
We Didn't Mean It
#2 - 2012-11-16 16:31:15 UTC
Killmails show real damage done I beleive. So if you have 100k effective but 50k actual it woud show as 50k damage taken.

Liam Inkuras
ParabeIIum
#3 - 2012-11-16 16:34:21 UTC
EHP: actual hitpoints + shield/armour/structure resists
Damage taken: your actual number of hitpoints

I wear my goggles at night.

Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone

Zoctrine
Doomheim
#4 - 2012-11-16 16:37:46 UTC
Savnire Jacitu wrote:
Killmails show real damage done I beleive. So if you have 100k effective but 50k actual it woud show as 50k damage taken.



I was not aware hit points does not equal damage... Good to know, thank you mate.

How does one go about figuring out how to calculate damage/hit points formula?
Maeltstome
Academy of the Unseen Arts
The Potato Alliance
#5 - 2012-11-16 16:46:30 UTC
Zoctrine wrote:
Savnire Jacitu wrote:
Killmails show real damage done I beleive. So if you have 100k effective but 50k actual it woud show as 50k damage taken.



I was not aware hit points does not equal damage... Good to know, thank you mate.

How does one go about figuring out how to calculate damage/hit points formula?


On EFT/Pyfa there is an option to toggle between EHP and actual hitpoints. Plus your hud can show actual hit points as a number for you to see in space. You can also right-click your ship and show info to see actual hit points on shield, armor and hull.

Although here is an example: You have 50% resists on shield, armor and hit points. You have 1000 shield, 1000 armor and 1000 hull. That means it takes 3000 total damage to kill you. But your resists stop 50% of all damage, so a ship has to do double your hitpoints in effective damage.

Your EFT shows 800 dps. but against 50% resists it only does 400 dps. Effective hitpoint and effective DPS are just easier ways of quickly working out how much DPS you can take without worrying about resisted damage.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#6 - 2012-11-16 16:48:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Bugsy VanHalen
Kill mails show applied damage, as in what you were hit with after resists where applied. EHP shows how much raw DPS it would take to push through your resists. For example say your ship has about 40,000 hp but with high resists your ehp is around 100,000. Some one attacks you doing 100,000 damage, but your resists knock that down to about 40,000.

Your ship had 100,000 ehp and took 100,000 damage, but the kill mail shows the 40,000 damage that made it past your resists. While your ehp shows the 100,000 raw damage needed to kill you. It is the same applied damage but one show with resists and the other without.
Zoctrine
Doomheim
#7 - 2012-11-16 17:02:31 UTC
My understanding was that EHP was the total amount of damage you could sustain, so I'm a bit confused... I understand the resists and the diferent shield armor and structure values, not used to reading KM... One more reason to consider KM a crap IMHO, not enough information to me equals to bad information.
Zoctrine
Doomheim
#8 - 2012-11-16 17:31:29 UTC
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
Kill mails show applied damage, as in what you were hit with after resists where applied. EHP shows how much raw DPS it would take to push through your resists. For example say your ship has about 40,000 hp but with high resists your ehp is around 100,000. Some one attacks you doing 100,000 damage, but your resists knock that down to about 40,000.

Your ship had 100,000 ehp and took 100,000 damage, but the kill mail shows the 40,000 damage that made it past your resists. While your ehp shows the 100,000 raw damage needed to kill you. It is the same applied damage but one show with resists and the other without.



Great information here...

That is what a KM should show, thank you mate.
Perihelion Olenard
#9 - 2012-11-16 18:43:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Perihelion Olenard
In addition to what was already stated, it depends on what damage type they're hitting you with. The EHP shown in fitting tools assumes you're hit evenly across the resists. If you have a resist hole your EHP will be substantially lower for that damage type. You can't always trust the EHP number unless your resists are pretty much even. You can change the damage type the fitting tool hits you with, though.
Kasutra
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-11-17 16:35:11 UTC
Zoctrine wrote:
My understanding was that EHP was the total amount of damage you could sustain, so I'm a bit confused... I understand the resists and the diferent shield armor and structure values, not used to reading KM... One more reason to consider KM a crap IMHO, not enough information to me equals to bad information.

I wouldn't say this is a case of the KMs being crap, more a case of the EHP term being so widely used that people forget that it's an abstraction.
illirdor
Upper Class Goat
#11 - 2012-11-17 17:59:20 UTC
Zoctrine wrote:
My understanding was that EHP was the total amount of damage you could sustain, so I'm a bit confused... I understand the resists and the diferent shield armor and structure values, not used to reading KM... One more reason to consider KM a crap IMHO, not enough information to me equals to bad information.


uhm no... if you use EFT then the EHP it shows means that you are hit with 25 % of each dmg type wich is not the case ingame if you want to really know the EHP of your ship then you need to make some dmg profiles in EFT...

Soooo this is my sig.... 

Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2012-11-18 02:22:25 UTC
EHP = damage(actual hp) - resists

Someone shoots at you with an EM missile. You have 50% EM resist. The missile hits you for 100 damage. 50 damage is deducted from your ship.

Boomhaur
#13 - 2012-11-18 09:46:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Boomhaur
As others have mentioned, I am just expanding on this further. Make damage profiles of damage types in EFT or whatever program you use for all EM, Therm, Kinetic, EXP so you can see what your EHP (Max damage you can take factoring in resists) before you go pop. This is different from the damage you do take, EHP is AFTER the resits are factored in. Making these damage profiles will help you find what your actual EHP is as EFT I know by default does 25% for each damage type so it only gives you a baseline and not what your true weakness is.

So 1,000 shield with 50% EM resist: So someone shoots you and the shot SHOULD do 1k EM damage, but when it hits it encounters the shield resists so it is now doing 500dmg. And you have 500 shield left.

EHP = hit point /resist hole: example from above 1,000/0.5 (em resist) = 2,000 EM EHP
Another example: 1,000 shield, 75% em resist: 1,000/0.25= 4,000 EM EHP

So using the examples above it will take 1k damage to break your shield, but in order to do that in the first example you need to do 2k damage before resists are factored in. And 4k in the second example.

This is why there is a discrepancy in terms of EHP and the Damage Taken.

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