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CCP Training Corporation (Idea)

First post First post
Author
No More Heroes
Sanctuary of Shadows
Triumvirate.
#101 - 2012-11-14 17:00:39 UTC
I think anytime CCP opts to do things in-game or fulfill a role that players could and should be doing- it defiles and defeats the purpose of the sandbox.

.

Fractal Muse
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#102 - 2012-11-14 17:16:24 UTC
The greatest issue with EVE Online is the barrier to entry for new players.

It is tough to become involved in the established community but this isn't something that is isolated to EVE Online. This is a standard problem for any new person in any existing community. Think about the first day at school for a new kid. Or the first day on the job in a new work environment. Or joining a game that's been active for years.

To claim that this is an EVE specific issue is being short-sighted.

But, that being written, I would say that I think EVE Online doesn't do a good job at reducing this barrier. CCP should really re-focus on the new user experience and work on retention numbers without reshaping the game. For awhile CCP was making great strides in working on the new user experience but that seems to have stalled in recent times.

I am a proponent of an increased "help the new player" type role that players can opt into participating with. I think one on one mentoring is one of the best ways to introduce someone to a new environment. Basically, study any successful integration program in a new environment and map it over to EVE Online.

Companies that successfully make new recruits feel welcome usually have orientation, a mentoring system, a company guidebook of some sort, and sometimes welcoming videos. There is a lot to take in those first days even if you are fully qualified for your new position.

EVE Online lacks a really good orientation - it has an okay one in terms of trailers and advertising. After all, that marketing material is basically the introduction to the game. The game trailers and ads are where the new user experience begins.

EVE's initial tutorial missions are pretty decent in my mind. I enjoyed them when I flew them and learned a fair bit. I felt that the game experience changed abruptly when the tutorials end. There is no transition from CCP guided gameplay (tutorials) to self generated gameplay (how the game is actually played). This is bad.

I would guess that a lot of players stop playing at this point - they'll do the tutorials then stick around for a day or to and quit. I could be wrong but I bet there is a significant loss of players at this point - the other place being during the first day of gameplay but I don't think there is a lot that EVE can do in this regard. If one doesn't like the UI or owning a spaceship in space then they simply will not like EVE Online. :)

Anyway, I hope CCP puts a lot of focus on the new user experience in the coming year and looks at ways to improve player retention.



XxRTEKxX
256th Shadow Wing
Phantom-Recon
#103 - 2012-11-14 18:52:33 UTC
To the OP.......I had to stop reading your post when I got to the part about WoW and how easy it is........

EVE is not meant to be easy. Thats what kept me playing after my first week into the game. I figured out all the basics on my own. I got stuck on the epic arc on one mission towards the end. Instead of losing more ships, I came to the forums looking for a noob friendly corp. I found one, contacted them, and joined them asap. They assisted me with advice on ship fitting and even came to help me survive the arc.

My point is I seeked out a group of players that were accepting of other players regardless of their age.

If you are having trouble joining a big alliance, then go find someone else. Build up an employment history, get a bit of experience, then try again. Some alliances/corps have strict recruitment requirements. Deal with it and welcome to EVE Online.
Del DelVechio
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
#104 - 2012-11-14 20:41:18 UTC
RvB is not a "training" corp and never will be. Anyone who tells you that is full of it. But we do try and help noobs. We do have a NoobFleet team who help with PvP basics and fittings. Granted its nowhere as organized as EVE Uni, but we do our best. Most RvBers are happy to help noobs in any way they can. Sometimes that includes blowing them up.....

Del
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
ChaosTheory.
#105 - 2012-11-14 20:47:41 UTC
XxRTEKxX wrote:
To the OP.......I had to stop reading your post when I got to the part about WoW and how easy it is........

EVE is not meant to be easy. Thats what kept me playing after my first week into the game. I figured out all the basics on my own. I got stuck on the epic arc on one mission towards the end. Instead of losing more ships, I came to the forums looking for a noob friendly corp. I found one, contacted them, and joined them asap. They assisted me with advice on ship fitting and even came to help me survive the arc.

My point is I seeked out a group of players that were accepting of other players regardless of their age.

If you are having trouble joining a big alliance, then go find someone else. Build up an employment history, get a bit of experience, then try again. Some alliances/corps have strict recruitment requirements. Deal with it and welcome to EVE Online.


Well said,

The op said she just came from WoW. This is a very good example of why the average EVE player holds WoW in such low regard (and why people like me pounce on any suggestion to make this game more like WoW).

If a person likes WoW, to each his own and all that, but some of us wish they would stay there instead of coming here and saying "why isn't this game more like WoW". Does everything have to be WoW?

In that game it's easy to join a guild because you risk nothing. In EVE letting the wrong person in can mean bad things happen to the corp you've spent YEARS building.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#106 - 2012-11-14 20:56:49 UTC
Casirio wrote:
lanyaie wrote:
http://v.cdn.cad-comic.com/comics/cad-20120625-8bb4c.png

was waiting for this. /thread


Waiting? You didn't read past page 1 did you? See post #32, page 2.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#107 - 2012-11-14 21:00:26 UTC
Helpful advice for new players can be found in the EVE New Citizens Q&A Resources thread. Of special relevance to the OP would be the link to Educational Organisations.

I wonder if it might be possible for CCP to float that sticky to the top of the Q&A first page. There are far too many stickies on that page (and let's not even start on the Features & Ideas page right now Lol)
Casirio
TunDraGon
Shadow Cartel
#108 - 2012-11-14 21:04:57 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Casirio wrote:
lanyaie wrote:
http://v.cdn.cad-comic.com/comics/cad-20120625-8bb4c.png

was waiting for this. /thread


Waiting? You didn't read past page 1 did you? See post #32, page 2.


yeah I was literally waiting .. lol
Mars Theran
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#109 - 2012-11-15 04:15:32 UTC
CCP Gargant wrote:
As CCP Eterne replied earlier, this idea has been thrown around often for things we could do for our customers. The biggest problem with this is that a CCP run corporation or alliance would always be viewed as a biased, unfair entity that helps players in a way that mocks all the effort put in by players who came before. Other training corporations would have no hope of "competing" against a CCP run corporation and this would be a direct intervention in the game environment itself. Interventions of that kind, such as spawning assets or giving away goodies, is something we avoid in any way possible as we don't want to direct how you play in our sandbox.

The best we can do in our current mindset is to have a good new player experience coupled with good articles on basics, and a good place to find other players that you might be able to join. Currently the Alliance & Corporation Recruitment Center forum is a very active ground for finding corporations but we can't really force players to go to the forums.

I don't want to sound like a grizzled, battle-scarred veteran that somehow "survived" EVE's early beginnings but this game requires a certain amount of simply going out there and chatting with people. You will get scammed, destroyed, cheated, trolled, and blown up but that is just a part of the essence of this game.

Just remember, your trust is your most valuable asset.


I wouldn't consider myself mocked if you provided a bit of help to new players. Sure, maybe I didn't have it when I started, but really, who cares. Go up about 2-3 posts from yous, and you'll see I myself suggested a way to make it feasible.

I don't care about newer players having it easier. Biased is only relevant if you are leading them against other Player Corporations, challenging Nullsec Alliances, or Running massive Trade and Industrial Operations that directly compete against other players.

Also, as I suggested, it wouldn't be a major time investment if you did it right. Sure, you can have a CCP employee CEO the Corp as one of the Live events staff, but it doesn't mean that person has to babysit it. If it's treated as an NPC Corp with a little alternative activity and interaction here and there, it should be perfectly feasible.

You structure the amount of investment on behalf of the developers. ISDs can monitor and moderate the channels, answer questions, and treat Corp chat much like Rookie chat. Less people per Corp, but more ISDs between Corps. GMs can surf the channel, Devs can check in, whatever..

It's a training Corp, not a Player Corp. Training institutions don't generally try to leverage their student body into amassing them glorious riches. Sure, some schools make money off their students, but it isn't particularly common. Usually, training is kept simple and cost effective, with revenues from tuition's and fees covering the majority of the expenses associated with that training.

This doesn't go against player training Corporations either. Once a player has left, that player cannot return to the Starte Training Corp. Players should be given a choice after 30 days to continue as a member, (if they haven't been kicked out by a GM, based on a Moderators complaint, or at the GMs discretion), or drop Corp. Just a pop-up.

Cripes, you have more tools than we for making this easy and less work intensive; you can automate half the process. You have Player Volunteers that are willing to put up with Rookie chat. Divide Rookie chat by 9, and allow a Player to deal with that 9th. Personally, I think that would be far more functional.

Here's another thing. Rookie chat is all new players everywhere. If you move this to Corp chat for starter Corporations, you've split the load and you've moved players into a help channel that is shared by players within a common region and part of Empire, initially anyway.

So if they do want to develop teamwork skills or do something together, or one of your Live events players or Devs wants to arrange an event or excursion of some kind, they're probably all within 20 jumps of a common location.

I don't see how any of that is unfair or potentially biased, (against other players), at all.
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Torvin Yulus
Doomheim
#110 - 2012-11-15 04:29:05 UTC
my god my gooncademy theory is true

im a pubby and im proud

Me ofcourse
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#111 - 2012-11-15 04:52:37 UTC
let me pull your attention to this OP

http://www.restokin.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Sensory_Overload.jpg

EVE is hard, was designed to be hard. and well........ ok, its easier now though, since things have been dumbed down a little, but the general idea of EVE is that you actualy need an IQ to start playing the game. after that its just listen to the FC, lock target, press F1 and drool
Mars Theran
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#112 - 2012-11-15 05:00:48 UTC
Torvin Yulus wrote:
my god my gooncademy theory is true


I think I'm missing the point of that statement. Conspiracy theories always boggle the mind, even when they're your own I guess.

..anyway, regarding my last post, and not regarding the quote above, forgive my vociferous nature but I find it hard to accept it when people refuse to even consider an alternative to a possibility. One idea as presented maybe impractical, undoable, completely ridiculous, but that doesn't mean the basis of the idea itself is bad.

Take it out of context, apply some reason, and/or look at it from a different perspective. As presented, the idea may be 'bad,' but that doesn't mean presented differently it wouldn't be a good idea. Completely rethought, it might be a very good idea.

Take my idea for example. Sure, it is actually way off track from the original post, and it may even be bad in some ways. It could be improved. That doesn't mean it or the original post is a write-off and to be dismissed off hand.

What we had here, was a Dev response amounting to, "That would be to much work, and it would put us in a position where we were running a Corp in direct competition with other players."

Wait.. I don't believe anyone suggested that; that's just what you happened to take from it. So, my thought is a means to balance that in a way to reduce the requirement to maintain and control the Corp and direct players actions, or otherwise remove the load from the Devs shoulders by incorporating the idea as an improvement over an existing system.

The NPE isn't awful. It also isn't particularly fantastic. Most NPEs aren't though. Once you've reached the limit of players that can easily adapt to your game, you rely on the NPE to guide other players into the game and help them adapt to it.

EVE isn't what it started as; it isn't what it was when I started either. It's still EVE, and I still love it. If I had not started then, and had started now, would I still love it? Maybe, and maybe not. I'm not guaranteeing that the new NPE would have held me, or that EVE as it is would have held me.

Most games don't.

So, lets get back to perspective. Maybe you could take something else from what I put in there. Maybe, you could just take one little thing.

Eliminate Rookie Chat, and create for different Help Channels, one for each of the Empires, which becomes available members of Starter Corporations in each of those Factions: Gallente, Amarr, Minmatar, and Caldari.

Doesn't matter what starter Corporation they're in within their Faction, they all have access to a common Help Chat within their Faction. No Dev Corp, no conflict of interest; just a means of making ISDs jobs easier and reducing Help request Spam making it all but impossible to see responses to your questions.
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Me ofcourse
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#113 - 2012-11-15 05:04:18 UTC
Mars Theran wrote:

So, lets get back to perspective. Maybe you could take something else from what I put in there. Maybe, you could just take one little thing.

Eliminate Rookie Chat, and create for different Help Channels, one for each of the Empires, which becomes available members of Starter Corporations in each of those Factions: Gallente, Amarr, Minmatar, and Caldari.

Doesn't matter what starter Corporation they're in within their Faction, they all have access to a common Help Chat within their Faction. No Dev Corp, no conflict of interest; just a means of making ISDs jobs easier and reducing Help request Spam making it all but impossible to see responses to your questions.


actually this might help a little, simply because im sure that there are people in the help channel asking things which are related to the faction they picked, for example, amarrian asking about lasers, gallente asking about hybrids and ect, it will help sort out some of the stuff and make things a little easier for newcomers asking question along with people providing answers
Mr Pragmatic
#114 - 2012-11-15 11:41:59 UTC
OP should have not ofmetionedwow because eve plyers get all pissed off when they see that word.

OP is right in the fact that ccp claim its game to be a social game, but its really hard to be social when older plyers are so resistant

For being a super high tech space pilot alot of new players are ignorant.

perhaps when a new plyers join the game they can join an advanced NPC corp that teachs them the in and out of proffesions.

for example, a bounty hunting NPCcorp would teach players thru expierence how to find potentional bounty targets.

Super cali hella yolo swaga dopeness.  -Yoloswaggins, in the fellowship of the bling.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Legion
#115 - 2012-11-15 11:50:51 UTC
Mr Pragmatic wrote:
OP should have not ofmetionedwow because eve plyers get all pissed off when they see that word.

OP is right in the fact that ccp claim its game to be a social game, but its really hard to be social when older plyers are so resistant

For being a super high tech space pilot alot of new players are ignorant.

perhaps when a new plyers join the game they can join an advanced NPC corp that teachs them the in and out of proffesions.

for example, a bounty hunting NPCcorp would teach players thru expierence how to find potentional bounty targets.


We call it EVE Uni. You can them move onto RvB for pvp experience.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#116 - 2012-11-15 15:06:40 UTC
I don't understand where the OP is coming from.


I look in corp recruitment channel. I look in the corp finder in game. I look in the recruitment chat channel....

What I see are TONS of corporations looking for new players.
Kelduum Revaan
The Ebon Hawk
The Ebon Hawk.
#117 - 2012-11-15 17:30:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Kelduum Revaan
CCP Gargant wrote:
Other training corporations would have no hope of "competing" against a CCP run corporation
Hi, Kelduum Revaan here. Apparently you haven't heard of my corp? We have the problem that other training corporations have no hope of "competing" against us, so we have ended up as the de-facto training corporation.


And yes, the main barrier for new players getting into established corps is that of trust. As a member you instantly get access to a ton of useful information and roles, which can very easily be abused and cause a ton of headaches, which is why everyone, E-UNI included, is careful to screen applicants.

If the corp mechanics ever get fixed that may be a lot less risky, but it should never be without risk.
JIDF
#118 - 2012-11-15 17:53:24 UTC
Yes, CCP teaching new players about EVE, this will be lovely.

Perhaps the next generation will favor locking everyone's guns in high-sec.