Player Features and Ideas Discussion

If they are not interacting, how do the people in the system know they are there?

Two login screen? What?

Cloakers can already be hunted. But to nerf cloaks without also nerfing local's easy mode intel, wouldn't be a balanced approach.

I'm also not avoiding anything, as it's your claim cloaks are not balanced. I'm waiting for facts to back that up.

It would be deployed in the systems where ships are at greatest risk, making a high sec pocket in null sec.

You say there is nothing here that nerfs cloaking, yet you want the ability to:

Effect:

The Cloak Jamming Array prohibits the usage of ANY cloaking devices in system, as long as it is online. That means FRIENDLY and ENEMY. If an alliance decides to install this module, NO ONE will be able to cloak in the system.


Call it friendly / enemy all you want... the ability to completely REMOVE cloaking in the entire system strikes me soundly as a nerf.

Also: They would simply put it in bottle neck systems, forcing you to have to try and travel through with no cloak whatsoever. Making their back water systems even safer than they already are!

I don't see a way to make this functional and not overly exploitable. It would simply remove cloaking from viable play in all important target, and bottleneck systems of SOV.

You say you don't want it nerfed, then say you want a nerf (the ability to break the cloak = a nerf compared to how it stands now)

Please don't call it what its not. Saying afk cloaking interrupts it being a 'social' game is no where near the truth. It does not stop anyone from talking, pve'ing together, pvp'ing together, etc. Null space, in particular further in past the bottlenecks, is in many ways safer than high sec could ever be. And it has the hands down ultimate unbeatable / uncounterable alarm system .... big flashy colored names in local.

The second that non friendly name pops up in local, everyone simply takes their multi-billion isk ratting and mining toys, POS's them up, grabs their pvp boats and their probes, and immediately holds a hunt to remove the 1 person in the system that has just magically stopped all of their no risk playing.

AFK cloaking can be a pain in the ass, its true. It is also SUPPOSED to. You also do not KNOW if he is afk. You know what else? Being that its a cloaked ship, you should not know he is in system at all. I do not see you asking for a nerf to that ability (local giving away presence).

This is almost never complained about in Low sec. Reason? SOV protection does not exist in low sec as it does in Null. It is also never complained about in WH. Reason? No local at all (I am not saying this is a solution for Null, as many do. I do think there is merit in to looking at options for it however).

This really only comes into play for null sec areas where people are pve'ing. And I am sorry, but the very last thing nullsec needs atm is LESS danger in their deeper systems. They need more in my book. NPC's that attack stations, Mini-incursion fleets to come through, etc. It should be as dangerous as they like to describe it in their books. Not even less so, by removing the inconvenience of a name you can't hunt down being up in local.

~Just my view.

the moment someone shows up in local? what if they sit their alt there for 7 days? 14 days? which happened to us in providence.

we tried to pvp him, but he wasnt on. his alt was on 20+ hours a day. we even tried to bait him by leaving a solo miner and everyone else stayed in another system within jump range. for hours. they all got bored. 3 days later, he finally decided to strike.

as i stated, its a great tactic. just leave an alt in a system for several days, pop a cyno and hot drop with an aeon. 1 guy, 6 alts over several system...it worked well. but checks and balances...cloaking is a powerful tool. it can cause folks to evacuate a system. there goes mining and combat upgrades. there goes money making. thats too much. thats power beyond belief.

if you wanna be cloaked in a system, be cloaked in a system. dont log your character in and cloak and go to work. come pvp, dont hide until someone is in a defenseless ship and jump em.
or
give us the ability to disrupt your cloak if only for a moment. then, if yer not on, we will hunt you down and give u a ride back to the station. if yer on, you will be able to cloak right up before anyone begins to get a probe on u.

you said " the second someone pops up in local we park our multi-billion isk ships and hunt him down. thats farthest form the truth. these guys log in, then leave. we show up and sit there. probing reveals nothing. and then they leave them there cloaked for weeks.

that tactic is WAY over powered if u cant agree with that, then i dont know what to say.

In Providence, you are in 0.0 space. Which goes to the above null space argument. The problem stands, you want local to tell you weather you are safe or not. THAT is the over powered mechanic. There is no counter to it, other than afk cloaking. Period. You can not interrupt weather or not you show up in local. You can not change your color to look like an ally (other than maybe trying some long round about spycraft betrayal system). You can not hide yourself from everyone in system knowing you are there.

You say my quote is the farthest from the truth, yet you say in the same paragraph that you and your friends immediately tried to hunt them down. Probing, etc. They waited 3 days before choosing to strike. Why you ask? Simple, because it is the only way to counter local simply telling you when you are not safe in Null Sec. What else could you be doing in there, if not pve'ing? There obviously was no other enemies around if you went through all that trouble just for 1 name.

THAT tactic, is WAY over powered. If you can not agree with that, then I don't know what to say. ;)



Last year one of the larger alliances were paying people from outside their alliance who could fly cloaking ships a good amount of isk on a delayed payment, for reliable intel in several systems that they wanted to attack. I made a deal with my son and nephew, and we proceeded to sneak around one of the listed systems for a little over 6 days. The character was logged in 24 hours a day, and we took rotating shifts, writing down when regular names logged off / on, what ships we were able to identify coming through system at what time, etc.

We never interacted with anyone, although we were flying around, gathering intel most (maybe 80%) of the time. We were paid VERY well for doing this after the attack happened. We were rarely AFK.


What you are asking for is not about AFK cloaking. It is about not feeling secure in Null Sec space when there is a non friendly name around that you can not chase away. Cloaking is the ONLY way to keep people guessing about weather it is safe or not ... in Null Sec, and THAT is something that needs to be worked on. Providence has a decent reputation as the 'newer' Null sec players place to learn and develop their skills, but it is still 0.0 space, and should be more dangerous than other space, not less.


---Local in High Sec is next to useless because there are always so many people around. More paranoia because of this.
---Low Sec Cloakers AFK or there for a long time does not change anything, because in low sec people tend to be paranoid all the time.
---WH space Cloakers AFK are laughed at. WH space is CONSTANT D-scan paranoia.
---0.0 Space, what is supposed to be the 'end game' scary danger zone, is safer in many ways to High sec simply because you can have a policy of 'If it isn't blue / purple, kill it'. Local names popping up makes that too easy.

WH space is the one place I have had very limited experiences in. But out of all of them, in order of paranoia / getting ganked it was WH / High Sec / Low Sec (in low sec you know its coming, and are looking for it most of the time) / 0.0.

You can disagree (that is the best part of these forums, after all ), but from the few responses I have already seen from Devs, and the mass majority of responses I have seen from other players, I am predicting the current cloaking mechanic is not going anywhere until or if they look into the Local Chat mechanic for options on things they can do that will not break the game, but still help limit the current Unbeatable Intel system.

~Z

You used a defective intel tool for HOW long?

At what point do you admit something is broken, and replace it?

ALWAYS assume that hostile forces are willing and able to attack on short notice.
The FACT that you were unwilling to act under these circumstances, is a clear indicator that you managed to create a comfort level free of hostile forces for far too long.

The "AFK Cloaker" you described did you a service, showing you how your flawless intel tool could be so easily turned against you.
Consider this:
It does not show an opponent with hostile intent. You assume the rest.
It does not show an opponent about to attack. You assume the rest.
It does not show an opponent with a fleet ready to jump into system. You assume the rest.
It just shows a list of pilots in system, with the intent of knowing who is capable of seeing items entered into the CHAT WINDOW.

So, as Mag's would say: How are they interacting with you if they are AFK?

I'd add more, but Nikk has already said it all eloquently.

You cannot simply remove local, or change it to act as it does in wh space. It's not that easy and is why CCP have had such a hard time, coming up with a change.

Any decloaking pulse mod fitted, would have to have limited range and also limited use around stargates etc. Plus any changes would need to take wh space into account, as dwellers there like it as it is.

This. You should NEVER know if there's a cloaked person in your system, because you shouldn't have magical local chat information in the first place If you can't even see the dude from like... ten miles away, then how do your sensors somehow know exactly who he is and his affiliation and a picture of his face as soon as he enters the system?

Without local, nobody would AKF-cloak, because every system owner would rightfully already have to be paranoid about possible cloaked ships in their system at ANY given time.