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Rebalance Clone Prices

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Inquisitor Kitchner
The Executives
#121 - 2012-11-14 12:38:29 UTC

My opinion:

The fact you can play EVE for 5 years and then lose all your skillpoints in one day because of a mistake is ridiculous.

My opinion is the system should work like this:

- When you die money is automatically taken out of your wallet for the cheapest clone you need to house your skillpoints
- If you don't have enough money for it you are charged for the most expensive clone you can afford and you can't train any skill points until you have bought a clone with room to spare.
- If you go over the threshold for your current clone (e.g it holds 20mil skillpoints and you go to 20mil+1) then you can't train any more skills until you upgrade your clone.

"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli
Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
#122 - 2012-11-14 13:07:09 UTC
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:

My opinion:

The fact you can play EVE for 5 years and then lose all your skillpoints in one day because of a mistake is ridiculous.
I guess that's why it's not possible Roll
Jurias
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#123 - 2012-11-14 13:08:07 UTC
Malphilos wrote:


Don't fly what you can't afford to lose, including your clone.


Exactly the point of the thread. You yourself will reach a time when you can't afford to even undock in your pod, so the fix is to move to a new alt for undocking/pvping. You may not be there yet, you may not be there for 5 years, but some pilots are there now, and the cost is already restrictive.
Malphilos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#124 - 2012-11-14 13:16:31 UTC
Jurias wrote:
Malphilos wrote:


Don't fly what you can't afford to lose, including your clone.


Exactly the point of the thread. You yourself will reach a time when you can't afford to even undock in your pod, ...


9 years and counting, and that's never happened.

How much longer should I wait?
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#125 - 2012-11-14 13:16:55 UTC
This thread is a prime example why these forums need better moderation.

Start banning the trolls and maybe a decent discussion can he had.
AndromacheDarkstar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#126 - 2012-11-14 13:26:08 UTC
I think you have to point out that EVE players train their Characters 24/7. They may however only be able to play for a couple of hours a week. This situation created an unavoidable issue caused by game mechanics. It dosent mean they are bad at eve just unwilling to spend allot of time playing to grind isk to throw into clones and instead want to play the way they want to play . I agree with making the clone upgrades permanent and at the same costs or slightly higher and be done with it.
AndromacheDarkstar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#127 - 2012-11-14 13:28:32 UTC
Malphilos wrote:
Jurias wrote:
Malphilos wrote:


Don't fly what you can't afford to lose, including your clone.


Exactly the point of the thread. You yourself will reach a time when you can't afford to even undock in your pod, ...


9 years and counting, and that's never happened.

How much longer should I wait?


Not everyone has the time or dedication to earn the isk needed to do what you are doing, as it stands this system dosent actually benefit anyone at all it just makes some peoples lives harder, why not remove it and make everyone elses lives a bit sweeter.
Vartan Sarkisian
Lucifer's Hammer
A Band Apart.
#128 - 2012-11-14 14:04:36 UTC
I think you make a valid point, My clone is not up to the level yet of making it prohibitively expensive (31.5m SP) but if it cost me 60m a pop to replace my clone every time I got podded then it would make me think twice about PVPing.

Reading answers like "don't get podded" isn't really helpful as that decision is often out of your hands after your ship disintegrates around you. If you carrying a bunch of expensive implants then yeah that is all your own fault but being penalized that harshly for having excessive skill point is harsh.

The only real solution if they don't change it is to alter training onto another account alt up to a level you can pvp in, I know you touched on that but I cannot see any other solution, then you may have to use the 3rd account alt at some time too. a p.i.t.a for sure but unless they change this is cannot see another solution.
iskflakes
#129 - 2012-11-14 14:47:15 UTC
PVP is competitive. You shouldn't be PVPing without HG slaves and a full set of hardwirings... unless you're in a blob alliance of course, in which case you win by default.

I propose clone costs should be increased by a factor of 10, due to the inflation that has happened since 2003.

Can't afford it? Pause training, create a new character, and now you can afford it.

-
Jurias
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#130 - 2012-11-14 14:55:02 UTC
iskflakes wrote:
PVP is competitive. You shouldn't be PVPing without HG slaves and a full set of hardwirings... unless you're in a blob alliance of course, in which case you win by default.

I propose clone costs should be increased by a factor of 10, due to the inflation that has happened since 2003.

Can't afford it? Pause training, create a new character, and now you can afford it.


So you are saying that people with 9 year old chars and 65mil+ clone prices should just start over? Or perhaps sell that char also? You don't think this is broken?
AndromacheDarkstar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#131 - 2012-11-14 14:57:36 UTC
iskflakes wrote:
PVP is competitive. You shouldn't be PVPing without HG slaves and a full set of hardwirings... unless you're in a blob alliance of course, in which case you win by default.

I propose clone costs should be increased by a factor of 10, due to the inflation that has happened since 2003.

Can't afford it? Pause training, create a new character, and now you can afford it.


Ill assume trolling, otherwise this is more of the elitist crap i seem to see on the forums everyday and EVE as a community could really do without, we are all nerds playing computer games, lets all try and make this as easy as possible for more people to play more often shall we and then everyone will be having more fun.
iskflakes
#132 - 2012-11-14 14:59:30 UTC  |  Edited by: iskflakes
Jurias wrote:
iskflakes wrote:
PVP is competitive. You shouldn't be PVPing without HG slaves and a full set of hardwirings... unless you're in a blob alliance of course, in which case you win by default.

I propose clone costs should be increased by a factor of 10, due to the inflation that has happened since 2003.

Can't afford it? Pause training, create a new character, and now you can afford it.


So you are saying that people with 9 year old chars and 65mil+ clone prices should just start over? Or perhaps sell that char also? You don't think this is broken?


My point is 65m should not be expensive to an old player, and certainly not to somebody who wants to PVP.

AndromacheDarkstar wrote:
lets all try and make this as easy as possible for more people to play more often shall we and then everyone will be having more fun.


This is an issue which only affects veteran players, not new players.

-
Jurias
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#133 - 2012-11-14 15:07:19 UTC
The problem is, threads like this just get shot down in flames by the type of people who like to indirectly imply that they are somehow superior, because they are rich, or have no problems making isk, or think they can outwit dictors and bubbles in large nullsec blob fights, or want to sound intelligent by proclaiming that "eve needs more isk sinks" because that sounds big and clever too.

Everybodys' situation is different, and medical clones are a pretty pathetic isk sink in the grand scheme of things (especially as more people are put off by getting podded on their 160mil+ chars and give up using them in null/bubble/blob situations). I bet sales tax and broker fees alone remove FAR more isk from the economy, and I'm sure new and inventive means could be introduced too.

Nobody is buying it, it's so easy to see through these types of posts, so please, cut the crap.
Jurias
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#134 - 2012-11-14 15:16:33 UTC
iskflakes wrote:


My point is 65m should not be expensive to an old player, and certainly not to somebody who wants to PVP.



...don't assume that all old players have lots of isk, or are able to make it 10 times faster than a newer player.

I've been having lots of fun on a 20mil sp char in a large nullsec alliance, dying many times in a week in huge fights in a ball of flames and inevitably getting podded because of dictors on the field or bubbles and camps during the 20 jump trip back home in a pod.

Sadly I wouldn't be able to afford to do the exact same thing on my main because losing cheap ships and then paying 65mil for a clone every time is madness - I don't care how elite you think you are or what smart comments you have to make.

What I am proposing should actually bring more skilled pilots into nullsec and encourage more pvp which can only be a good thing. The game is broken when myself and many others (again regardless of what some people making the smartass elitist comments in this thread say) choose to leave their experienced chars docked in favour of new alts.
Inquisitor Kitchner
The Executives
#135 - 2012-11-14 15:20:13 UTC
Pohbis wrote:
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:

My opinion:

The fact you can play EVE for 5 years and then lose all your skillpoints in one day because of a mistake is ridiculous.
I guess that's why it's not possible Roll


OK, lose all but 900,000 skill points?

Does that make it OK for you then if you lost all your skill points tomorrow?

Of course not, so don't be pedantic. The point is theres a difference between making death something that is a hindrance and potentially making you quit the game because you forgot to click a button.

"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli
jjjg tutyru6
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#136 - 2012-11-14 15:25:06 UTC
I totaly agree with you Jurias the clone price need to get lvled so u dont have to pay 65mill + implants everytime you get podded it takes the fun out of pvp, especially solo pvp
iskflakes
#137 - 2012-11-14 15:31:21 UTC
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:

OK, lose all but 900,000 skill points?

Does that make it OK for you then if you lost all your skill points tomorrow?

Of course not, so don't be pedantic. The point is theres a difference between making death something that is a hindrance and potentially making you quit the game because you forgot to click a button.


He's not being pedantic. When you die, you only lose 5% of the DIFFERENCE between your clone and your actual skillpoints.

Quote:
Quote:

If you have a lot of skills trained to level 5 then the skill points will be removed from the highest ranked of those skills.

However, for example, if you have a rank 12 skill at level 1 and a rank 4 skill at level 5, the skill points would be removed from the rank 4 skill as you have more skill points there.

When a skill has been selected, the system deducts the skill points your character has and the amount of skill points your clone saves. It then takes 5% of those skill points away, as long as that amount doesn’t total 50% of your total skill points in that skill.

To illustrate; if you have 10.000 skill points and your clone covers 9.000, the system removes 5% off 1.000 skill points, leaving 9950 skill points.


Emphasis mine.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/What_happens_when_my_character_dies

--

Back on the actual topic. There's certainly improvements that could be made, for example adding a dialogue warning you if you're about to undock without a clone, but PVP should not be free. It's bad enough that cheap ships are 99% as good as more expensive ships these days, let's not make that extend to clones too.

-
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
#138 - 2012-11-14 15:45:47 UTC
If they ever make implant production possible with their EVA prototype. Plus a ton of new implants to adjust your clone to make use of this new mechanic, the clone loss price should be reflected in how much of an advantage you wish to gain from implants which should be as important as fitting a ship.
As per my original post, the cost of the clone should be as expensive as the amount of implant slots you are planning to use. The full implant clone should be the one costing you 65m as you have the money to fully fit your head. A cheap clone wouldn't hold any implants thus lose the advantage but wouldn't have to worry about SP.
You don't fly what you can't afford. This has nothing to do with skill amount as your income is dictated by how you sandbox.
Your body should be the same idea. Don't use a body you cant afford.
Being a long term player shouldn't be punished nor should it be unrealistically rewarded.
Having a bunch of skills should be reward enough for being a long term player.
You should only be punished if you choose to use them. Flying a t2 Rifter with no implants shouldn't cost you a Cap skilled clone.
If you fly a cheap ship but have your clone dressed to the nines, that clone will be a more expensive asset beyond implant cost.
Lashenadeeka
Qinglong Fleet
#139 - 2012-11-14 15:49:04 UTC
iskflakes wrote:
It's bad enough that cheap ships are 99% as good as more expensive ships these days, let's not make that extend to clones too.


I really hope that 110B listed on your evestats website is not the full extent of your wealth or you simply sound ridiculous talking in such a way.
Inquisitor Kitchner
The Executives
#140 - 2012-11-14 16:14:15 UTC
iskflakes wrote:


He's not being pedantic. When you die, you only lose 5% of the DIFFERENCE between your clone and your actual skillpoints.



In which case I take back my comment and apologise.

It's still daft, just not AS daft.

"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli