These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Missions & Complexes

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Help with Hitting Cruiser and Frigate targets with BS guns??
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Dark Ways
Purple Void Corporation
LinkNet
#1 - 2012-11-14 05:24:18 UTC
I am an old missile user moving to gun ships for my future mission running. As I have been EFT'ing it up trying to decide where to invest my money, I was hoping to get some wisdom from the long time gun users. I was trying to find how much tracking do BS guns need to be able to hit these small targets as much as possible. I have no interest in using Web's or anything else just guns and then drones if they do get under my range. I am currently looking at a Vindi or Mach and my current ideal build are coming it at a tracking of .09 and .06 respectively. I am totally new to this end and any help explaining what i can expect to get would help me a great deal.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#2 - 2012-11-14 05:40:38 UTC
Well, not using webs is fine and good; not a lot of mission ships fit them. You'll definitely want to look in to a few other things though: tracking enhancers, tracking computers, and a prop mod of some sort. Without fitting some combination of these things you really don't want to fly a gun ship.

There's a bit of a mess of a thread active that hits on the same basic questions down here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=170720&find=unread

It's worth reading, but be careful with some of the more outlandish ideas in there. Bottom line is that better tracking helps you hit at or under optimal and falloff doesn't do anything at that range. Over optimal falloff and tracking both factor into damage and hit quality.

As for your specific numbers... they're... ok? I get ~.068 on my Machariel. It tracks well enough, but more importantly I can always pull range and drop transveral to near 0 if I need to kill something in it -- and that's a bit part of why you need the prop mod. Any 4 gyro/3 TE fit should do the trick well enough though. And on the Vindicator -- well, blasters are going to give you more range problems than tracking problems. It is odd that you'd rather not put a web on that one though; goodness knows it's built for that.
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#3 - 2012-11-14 07:44:47 UTC
Can't say about Vindi but my Mach has no problems with frigs as long as they are at >15km range, closer it basically pointless to use guns, drones are the way to deal with them. But it's not a problem because usually rats are a lot further and I can take frigs with one volley at 80km (sometimes 2 or 3 volleys needed if they are elite frigs). I didn't notice any problems with hitting cruisers at closer ranges but maybe it's because they die too fast to really get under my guns. Last night I think I saw last cruiser from a spawn being at 3.5km or sth like that and it died with 2 volleys.

So basically, you should shoot frigs ASAP and if they happen to get under your guns release your puppies of doom aka drones :) and take care of bigger targets. After all if you clear all BSs/BCs/cruisers a few remaining frigs won't break your tank and even scammed and webbed you will survive and can wait for drones do their job. Of course assuming you will be able to really kill everything posing a real threat. And Mach is pretty good at this part.

BTW, I have 3 gyro and 3 TE on my Mach, last low is nano because this ship is like a shark - it needs to move to be alive.

Taking support skills up to 4 and even 5 for low rank skills should be a priority, things like Rapid Firing, Motion Prediction, Sharpshooter, Surgical Strike really, REALLY make a difference.

Invalid signature format
Faulx
Brother Fox Corp
#4 - 2012-11-14 09:45:29 UTC
Differently sized guns have different signature resolutions, small guns have a 40 resolution which means the exponent in the formula for your chance to miss is influenced by (40/targetSignatureRadius)^2.

Meanwhile, large guns have a 400 signature resolution, their ability to hit frigates (which commonly have around 40 sig radius) is about (400/40)^2 = 100 "times" worse than small guns, on top of that large turrets have much lower base tracking and larger ships rarely have tracking bonuses.

This disparity can be mitigated by shooting at a very slow or immobile target, because the formula has another factor with a similar form: (range*transverseVelocity/tracking)^2.

There is also another term in the formula which involves falloff: (max(range-optimalRange,0)/falloff)^2, but that wont apply at close range.

Basically though, if you're not going to massively web/paint and kite your target while boosting your gun's tracking you have only the minimum chance (1%) of hitting a frigate at close range. 2x webs (90% each) on a paladin is probably the best bet for large guns hitting frigates at close range. That or using ECM to make them run directly away (0 transverse = easy target).

A flight of small drones is really the easiest way to deal with them.

The full formula is:

chanceToHit = .5 ^ ( (gunSignatureResolution/targetSignatureRadius)^2 * (range*transverseVelocity/tracking)^2 + (max(range-optimalRange,0)/falloff)^2 )

if you want to have any real DPS, the exponent should be kept below 1 (.5 ^ 1= 50% chance to hit).
Charles Burger
Reckless Abandon
#5 - 2012-11-14 09:46:39 UTC
AC Mach can one-shot most frigs and destroyers at 20km or above. Elite frigs can take a few shots but they still die. If they do get close, use drones, but it's quicker to primary the frigs at range. Cruisers die at any range but faster if they are 10km or more, so secondary them.