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Rebalance Clone Prices

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Jurias
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#81 - 2012-11-13 19:18:20 UTC
Further to that Othran, I'm also sitting on a decent amount of liquid ISK, not to mention assets. I've created this thread to discuss something that's been bugging me that's all.

This isn't a whine about not having ISK or being able to afford something. It's just silly to use a low SP alt to get around something that could be changed. Would be nice to have my combat history all on one character for instance (gasp roleplayers! lol)

Like I said, CCP have acknowledged this problem in the past, but now we are at the same point again where the prices are back to where they were before the previous nerf.
Jurias
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#82 - 2012-11-13 19:19:27 UTC
Ashterothi wrote:
Jurias wrote:
Oh dear here we go. Please READ the post. The forums are not here for spam and abuse, they are here for constructive discussion. Very helpful start, bravo.


I fear you have a fundamental misunderstanding of general forums.

There are legitimate forums and avenues for legitimate discussion. GD is not one of them.

Tell you what, go to Jita, post this in local, then complain when no one reads it.


Sorry, you wrote a lot there...but your contribution is?
fukier
Gallente Federation
#83 - 2012-11-13 19:20:17 UTC
hell i would even like the ability to use LP to buy new clones... that would be epic for FW.
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
Jurias
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#84 - 2012-11-13 19:22:26 UTC
fukier wrote:
hell i would even like the ability to use LP to buy new clones... that would be epic for FW.


That's a good idea - perhaps even with an added twist of some sort of factional clone that does something else? How about upgrading your pod with an interdiction nullifier and +1 warp strength? Ok so I'm just kidding :P

Good idea though.
Mire Stoude
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#85 - 2012-11-13 20:56:24 UTC
As a 100m SP character with a good amount of isk in his wallet, I support paying less in clone costs. I don't know why others are against it. Probaby the same group of people who hate any change because they like disagreeing with someone they believe to be complaining (like people who were against adding a skill queue).

Reactivating clones manually is dumb, paying more than 10m for a clone is also dumb.
fukier
Gallente Federation
#86 - 2012-11-13 21:01:24 UTC
Mire Stoude wrote:

Reactivating clones manually is dumb, paying more than 10m for a clone is also dumb.


maybe mabye not...

if you can manufacture clones then its up to supply and demand to determin the cost ratio for that region...


At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#87 - 2012-11-13 21:09:10 UTC
Jurias wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
fukier wrote:
why not make clone grades manufacturable?


It's an isk sink that everyone uses. The game needs more isk sinks, not less.


...and I agree, but this thread is about balance. If you would like to start a topic on ISK sinks I will be more than willing to contribute. Please try to remember the topic people.


Isk sinks are also a matter of balance & lowering the cost of clones would affect that, which is why it's a valid point to bring up.

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Hemmo Paskiainen
#88 - 2012-11-13 21:16:23 UTC
Confirming i stopped flying my favourite ships and reduced my undocking by 80% after i passed the 120 mil sp. (got 138 now).

My favourite ships are frigats and i only play in 0.0. (lots of bubbles)

My expensive clone cost reduced my fun for eve. Even though its not about the isk but its the pshycological affect of losing half a GTC when i lose my pod. Ppl could claim that at that sp lever dieing doesnt cost 250 mil but i do have the right to put 2 racial skill implants in. Why dont i have the right? (reed why i have the psycological barriere).

Clone cost for 156mil sp clone: 45 mil
2 racial +4's: 38 mil
1 harwireing: 10 mil

Thats 100 mil before the ship, firgats like sabres, ect die like flies. In terms of carebearish: I need to bear 2 and a half hours to recover 1 clone. Basic math: How much fun can i have each week when i need to bear 2.5 hours each time i die.

Not that this is whiny or something i have plenty of isk but its psycological barriere thats the point. It go's up the more sp you have and i think thats wrong.

Summary for the shortsighted ppl: eacht time i fly a dictor i fly in a 180 mil (inc 0.0 cost of stuff or haul cost) destroy thats a sitting duck on bubbled gates.

If relativity equals time plus momentum, what equals relativity, if the momentum is minus to the time?
Keen Fallsword
Skyway Patrol
#89 - 2012-11-13 21:17:30 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Edit: Spam removed - ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#90 - 2012-11-13 21:26:41 UTC
Hemmo Paskiainen wrote:
Confirming i stopped flying my favourite ships and reduced my undocking by 80% after i passed the 120 mil sp. (got 138 now).

My favourite ships are frigats and i only play in 0.0. (lots of bubbles)

My expensive clone cost reduced my fun for eve. Even though its not about the isk but its the pshycological affect of losing half a GTC when i lose my pod. Ppl could claim that at that sp lever dieing doesnt cost 250 mil but i do have the right to put 2 racial skill implants in. Why dont i have the right? (reed why i have the psycological barriere).

Clone cost for 156mil sp clone: 45 mil
2 racial +4's: 38 mil
1 harwireing: 10 mil

Thats 100 mil before the ship, firgats like sabres, ect die like flies. In terms of carebearish: I need to bear 2 and a half hours to recover 1 clone. Basic math: How much fun can i have each week when i need to bear 2.5 hours each time i die.

Not that this is whiny or something i have plenty of isk but its psycological barriere thats the point. It go's up the more sp you have and i think thats wrong.

Summary for the shortsighted ppl: eacht time i fly a dictor i fly in a 180 mil (inc 0.0 cost of stuff or haul cost) destroy thats a sitting duck on bubbled gates.


You don't have to use those implants when you PvP, but I think a better idea would be for CCP to remove attribute implants entirely. The main problem people have with clone costs isn't the clone costs themselves, but that they don't want to buy new implants.

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Ayeshah Volfield
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#91 - 2012-11-13 21:27:19 UTC
I'm all for lower clone costs if insurance payout is removed at the same time for any players past say...900k SP.

EVE is what happens when the rule of law does not apply and Darwinism is allowed to run freely.
Jurias
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#92 - 2012-11-13 21:29:51 UTC
Actually implants are a separate discussion. You can choose to use those or not. You pay your money, you make your choice. I'm talking about the basic cost of losing a clone. Older characters should not be discouraged in taking part if they need to grind 10 times longer than the pilot next to them to replace a clone.

If you think this is fair, then by that logic, a new player should play 100mil for a battleship, but a vet should pay 1bil....because they have more sp, or because they have been playing longer, or because they can make isk faster, or because an isk sink is required...
Gul Amarr
Orange County Cruisers
#93 - 2012-11-13 23:55:42 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:


You don't have to use those implants when you PvP, but I think a better idea would be for CCP to remove attribute implants entirely. The main problem people have with clone costs isn't the clone costs themselves, but that they don't want to buy new implants.



Actually to me, clone costs do matter and I never lost a clone with implants.

As anyone who really bothers can clearly see, I suck balls at pvp, so I'd love to join some rather shoddy newbish, high activity pvp corp doing frig roams for the most part and die in hilarious ways.

The problem isn't the clone cost as such (I can afford a few clones, even have trade skills on this very character and know how to make money, but can't really be arsed to anymore) - the problem is that it just feels completely wrong to pay more for the implant-less clone than the ship flown and fittings combined.

Clone costs should be based on the skills that were actually applied to the ship that was lost.
Shederov Blood
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
#94 - 2012-11-14 00:09:46 UTC
The medical stations should sell a clone that has bubble immunity and +2 warp core strength, but only saves the same SP as an alpha clone. Cool

Who put the goat in there?
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#95 - 2012-11-14 00:17:18 UTC
Jurias wrote:
If you think this is fair, then by that logic, a new player should play 100mil for a battleship, but a vet should pay 1bil....because they have more sp, or because they have been playing longer, or because they can make isk faster, or because an isk sink is required...


Ship prices are set by the players & are not an isk sink. Clone prices are set by CCP & are an isk sink, so the logic you tried to use there is completely off the scale.

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Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#96 - 2012-11-14 00:25:33 UTC
Honestly, I think they should cost more. If it is getting too expensive... die less.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#97 - 2012-11-14 00:32:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Il Feytid
Remove all insurance and clone upgrade costs completely. Insurance injects ISK into the game, even when you didn't buy any insurance. Costs should be in the ship you fly, how you fit it and any implants you plug in to gain an edge. NOT how long you have been playing the game.
Terh Rumnatarn
Epidemic Inc.
#98 - 2012-11-14 00:46:44 UTC
Jurias wrote:

This isn't a whine about not having ISK or being able to afford something. It's just silly to use a low SP alt to get around something that could be changed. Would be nice to have my combat history all on one character for instance (gasp roleplayers! lol)


Join FW. Upgrade a system to 5 and you get 50% discount (or join the winning militia, you have plenty of those). Rather simple.

There were some other suggestions in this thread, like alts, better ways of making money, etc. Power and the ability to fly whatever you want costs isk, sorry about that.

I am not saying that I fully agree with the current cost of clones, and there was a suggestion for the ability to buy clones for a certain amount of SP. 10 mil etc. and choose for each which skills to use.

If you don`t accept any of these suggestions, then I propose that CCP make a 100 mil isk button, every time I press it I get 100 mil.

Clone problem solved.

Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
#99 - 2012-11-14 01:11:03 UTC
True clone cost= clone cost * sec status of location of clone not to go below 0.1.

Jump clones stay as is.

I would definitely support this change.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#100 - 2012-11-14 01:24:43 UTC
CSM meeting minutes – Iceland, 30th of May to 1st of June 2012 wrote:
Turning towards other future matters, CCP Soundwave stated that they were currently looking at medical clones, as the cost of dying for highly skilled pilots is very high and is getting in the way of PvPing – flying a 500k ISK Rifter and paying 10 to 20 million ISK for a clone is not very encouraging for PvP activity. Furthermore, the skill-loss mechanism is also something that needs to be looked at as punishing forgetful people for participating in PvP is counter-intuitive. While nothing has been decided the aim is not to reduce the risk of PvPing, but to move the mechanism of spending the ISK to somewhere else – such as investing the ISK in customizable clones that then give you some benefits (special mining clone, PvP clone, etc.).

In general no one of the CSM voiced concerns with this plan, as penalizing players for not remembering to buy a new clone is the wrong way to go about this.

Two step pointed out that wormhole dwellers would perhaps voice concerns regarding that plan due to the inability to switch clones in wormhole space. He also added that perhaps a ‘longevity’ perk could be added to clones, meaning that the longer a person is using a clone it would get unique bonuses.

Seleene agreed with the idea of making clones simpler and cheaper at its core.

Trebor Daehdoow was also in support of simple and cheaper clones, while he emphasized a ‘simpler is better’ approach to the change.

Due to Iceland’s weather being very hot that day (above freezing), ice cream was offered to people present at the session

http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=73092