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CCP No longer adding sandbox?

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Esruc 'Sadim
Lazaretto
#81 - 2012-11-11 19:53:10 UTC
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:
Yeah... other than every ship that always had specific weapon bonuses or abilities like mining yield... And only ever used some ships *cough* empire mining frigs for the first week of play than never used them again.
Now we have a miner frig thats awesome for rookies, and awesome later yet again for advanced players for gas mining. It always has a use. Whens the last time you used a Bantam? Or other empire mining frigate? It was a few day stepping stone that you dare not look back at.


Actually...I like to use a cloaky navitas for swift ammo transport through null. Its holds a lot and doesn't take long to align when fitted for it. When the +warp strength ore frig comes out I'll start using that for the same thing.

Insert something witty and clever here
Mr Pragmatic
#82 - 2012-11-11 19:58:34 UTC
I think OP has a disdain for the growing carebear threat. Thus the attitude of "Dumbing down" eve.

Super cali hella yolo swaga dopeness.  -Yoloswaggins, in the fellowship of the bling.
Guttripper
State War Academy
Caldari State
#83 - 2012-11-11 20:45:49 UTC
Let's be realistic - give players options, place them in an open environment, and most will not adapt to avoid conflict.

Hulks can be built for cargo or can be (somewhat) tanked to survive. Hulkaggeddon rages, Goons go on a tear, and most miners cry to CCP instead of altering their style.

If freighters got altered to allow modules, then how many players will build for survival over more cargo hold?

History is littered with players not adapting.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#84 - 2012-11-11 20:50:57 UTC
You know it's a slow day in the forum when a bad troll pulls the ganker, the straw man and the egoist into his web.

A solid 8/10 from me.

Mr Epeen Cool
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#85 - 2012-11-11 21:04:51 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
You know it's a slow day in the forum when a bad troll pulls the ganker, the straw man and the egoist into his web.

A solid 8/10 from me.

Mr Epeen Cool


As you said, its a slow day. Right now I am watching Shadow...
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#86 - 2012-11-12 12:58:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Lin-Young Borovskova
Guttripper wrote:
If freighters got altered to allow modules, then how many players will build for survival over more cargo hold?

History is littered with players not adapting.



At least having slots would give them the choice, then judge them and mock them in local or GD because they're still stupid it's another thread.

Whatever, this thread is a full troll from the beginning anyway.

brb
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#87 - 2012-11-12 12:59:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Lin-Young Borovskova
baltec1 wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
You know it's a slow day in the forum when a bad troll pulls the ganker, the straw man and the egoist into his web.

A solid 8/10 from me.

Mr Epeen Cool


As you said, its a slow day. Right now I am watching Shadow...



I liked the blonde even if they could have chosen a better looking one like Mrs Punkuris. [faggöt: ON]

brb
Hazen Koraka
HK Enterprises
#88 - 2012-11-12 13:23:29 UTC
Generals4 wrote:
Souisa wrote:
Hello,

It seems CCP on a large part no longer add sandbox. They make a Mining Frigate. And make it exactly clear what to use it for. They make salvaging drones and making it excactly clear what they are suppose to be used for. Freighters dont have even fitting options.


Yeah it's kind of weird eh, a ship which has a dedicated role. I mean it's not like it's clear my drake is a combat ship and not hauler. Or that my hulk is a mining ship and not supposed to be used to probe down DED sites. Etc. It has always been clear what ships should be used for and just like with other ships that doesn't mean you can't use it for something else if you truly want to.


Battle-Badgers FTW!

Exploration is Random. Random is Random... or is it?! http://docs.python.org/2/library/random.html
Smiknight
Smiknight Corporation
#89 - 2012-11-12 14:08:52 UTC
Souisa wrote:
Hello,

It seems CCP on a large part no longer add sandbox. They make a Mining Frigate. And make it exactly clear what to use it for. They make salvaging drones and making it excactly clear what they are suppose to be used for. Freighters dont have even fitting options.

They have to stay true to the sandbox element else they will be loosing players faster and faster. For example instead of making a mining frigate, just make a frigate with many turret hardpoints and lots of CPU. People will figure out its the best for mining. Instead of making salvaging drones make drones that tractor wrecks to your ship. People will figure out to get a ship that fits a decent amount of salvagers. And there are also plenty of other uses for this tractor drone. Freighters should have fitting flots. Atm. they just gave them plenty of HP, made them slow, and gave them lots of cargo space. It has to be up to players to experiement with fits and make the freighter they want. A slow but tanky one, or a fast but more more easier to gank one etc. Its all about the sandbox element, leaving choice up to the player. Experimenting is part of the game.


The sandbox is a lie.
A reward devoid of risk is no reward at all, but is instead a handout.
Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
#90 - 2012-11-12 15:49:28 UTC
Smiknight wrote:

The sandbox is a lie.


The sandbox is cake?
Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2012-11-12 16:00:52 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
At least having slots would give them the choice, then judge them and mock them in local or GD because they're still stupid it's another thread.

That strategy worked oh so well for miners in Hulks Lol

Quote:
Whatever, this thread is a full troll from the beginning anyway.

Agreed.

"I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin
Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#92 - 2012-11-12 16:03:51 UTC
Ruskarn Andedare wrote:
Smiknight wrote:

The sandbox is a lie.


The sandbox is cake?

To heck with cake, pie is where it's at.

"I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#93 - 2012-11-12 17:24:54 UTC
Souisa wrote:
The fact you think freighters should not have fitting slots is more a sign on your lack of imagination and constructive thought than anything else. Im sorry but thats the way i see it. When i try to understand your position you back out. Im sorry but im done talking with you


People who want freighters to have fitting slots are the ones with no imagination. People start suicide ganking freighters & instead of using your imagination to adapt, you want CCP to buff them.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Alundil
Rolled Out
#94 - 2012-11-12 17:30:24 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
When freighters run into problems (gankers, bumping, whatever) they have no options on how to deal with it. They can't decide to trade cargo for tank or vice versa. Yet they get blamed when "foolish behavior" gets them killed? How does one blame someone else for something they have no say in? So yes, freighters need fittings, just like everything else. It's overdue. Some may say that freighters are working fine. Really?



I imagine that the upcoming bounty changes will offer some more compelling (not to mention more balanced) method of securing freighter routes and passages. The reason I state this as opposed to agreeing with the "give freighters tank mods" is this:
1. If you give mods/rigs to freighters they will naturally become tougher nuts to crack and therefore harder to kill. "Win" you say right?
1a. No. If this occurs, then the people looking to gank said carriers will only bring +n number of ships required to alpha through the next new EHP target value. Nothing changes for the freighter other than the amount of ISK sunk into the hull+mods goes up. The gankers cost to do "business" goes up. Everything else stays the same. Ganks still occur with, likely, the same frequency. The ISK losses to freighters/freight corps increases.
2. No amount of tank will ensure safety for freighters. See 1a.

Post Retribution (hopefully the bounty changes and kill right changes will work well - I know a big hope) this will allow mercenary corporations to provide protection for freighters by way of the shipping corps placing bounties on the gank corps or known gank pilots. Thereby allowing for combat operations to occur and clear (or at least thin) the systems that need to be traversed (either through the merc corps or even the shipping corp pilots). It doesn't take much variance to ruin a frieghter ganking operation. Just one or two gank ships not hitting the freighter throws all the calculations off and the freighter lives.


Katran Luftschreck wrote:

Have you asked the freighter captains that, or are we just asking the people who prey on them? I'll go with what the freighter captains have to say first, thank you.


Colorful fish detected.

Unless you have an ear to all freighter pilots your info is anecdotal at best and therefore shouldn't be used to set policy or game design decisions.

I believe, much like your statement, that there are many more freighters being flown around New Eden without being sploded. That either means they are doing something right and the sploded ones are doing something wrong or the game is working as intended (at least as far as risk/reward goes).

Disclaimer - I have lost 0 freighters and I have ganked 0 freighters. But it's not a hard mechanic to figure out one way or another.

I'm right behind you
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#95 - 2012-11-12 18:57:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Abdiel Kavash
Since when does "sandbox" imply "every ship is a Swiss army knife"?

Oh wait, we have lasers that shoot people and lasers that shoot spacerocks. That's not sandboxy enough, let's just have one type of laser that everybody can use to shoot at anything they desire. Why should we have to choose one or the other, it's a sandbox.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#96 - 2012-11-12 20:32:10 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Souisa wrote:
The fact you think freighters should not have fitting slots is more a sign on your lack of imagination and constructive thought than anything else. Im sorry but thats the way i see it. When i try to understand your position you back out. Im sorry but im done talking with you


People who want freighters to have fitting slots are the ones with no imagination. People start suicide ganking freighters & instead of using your imagination to adapt, you want CCP to buff them.

As someone who is neither a freighter pilot nor a ganker I must ask, what creative options for freighters are there? We have the act of carrying less in your hold of course, and instawarp BM's for undocks, but I'm not aware of other options to make oneself more safe in transit.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#97 - 2012-11-12 20:42:10 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Souisa wrote:
The fact you think freighters should not have fitting slots is more a sign on your lack of imagination and constructive thought than anything else. Im sorry but thats the way i see it. When i try to understand your position you back out. Im sorry but im done talking with you


People who want freighters to have fitting slots are the ones with no imagination. People start suicide ganking freighters & instead of using your imagination to adapt, you want CCP to buff them.

As someone who is neither a freighter pilot nor a ganker I must ask, what creative options for freighters are there? We have the act of carrying less in your hold of course, and instawarp BM's for undocks, but I'm not aware of other options to make oneself more safe in transit.

In-corp webbing alts
Carry less in your hold
Agility implants
Carry less in your hold
Take routes that don't go through popular ganking spots
Carry less in your hold
Form a fleet to defend your freighter against attack
Carry less in your hold

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#98 - 2012-11-12 20:43:18 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Since when does "sandbox" imply "every ship is a Swiss army knife"?

Oh wait, we have lasers that shoot people and lasers that shoot spacerocks. That's not sandboxy enough, let's just have one type of laser that everybody can use to shoot at anything they desire. Why should we have to choose one or the other, it's a sandbox.



Pro tip 1: officer fit Bhaalgorn

Pro tip 2: pick a 1.0 SS system and warp to belt 1

Pro tip 3: target Veldspar and hit F1

Watch Concord mine with guns.

Lol

Can you shoot rocks with your pulse lasers? -of course you can !

brb
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#99 - 2012-11-12 20:45:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Souisa wrote:
The fact you think freighters should not have fitting slots is more a sign on your lack of imagination and constructive thought than anything else. Im sorry but thats the way i see it. When i try to understand your position you back out. Im sorry but im done talking with you


People who want freighters to have fitting slots are the ones with no imagination. People start suicide ganking freighters & instead of using your imagination to adapt, you want CCP to buff them.

As someone who is neither a freighter pilot nor a ganker I must ask, what creative options for freighters are there? We have the act of carrying less in your hold of course, and instawarp BM's for undocks, but I'm not aware of other options to make oneself more safe in transit.

In-corp webbing alts
Carry less in your hold
Agility implants
Carry less in your hold
Take routes that don't go through popular ganking spots
Carry less in your hold
Form a fleet to defend your freighter against attack
Carry less in your hold

Thanks, though "Carry less in your hold" didn't need repeated so much considering I had already mentioned that one.
Matt Grav
Wrath of the Pea
#100 - 2012-11-12 20:48:11 UTC
How about trying out the 'mulitplayer' part of MMO. You're suppost to work together with other players to protect your freighter.

and of course carry less in your hold !