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Tech 3, maybe a mistake.

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Inquisitor Kitchner
The Executives
#81 - 2012-11-12 00:30:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Inquisitor Kitchner
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
wow considering your CCP and CCP say balancing ships isn't based on cost....


My job isn't to balance ships, so that's my personal opinion after having been a PvPer for best part of 10 years Smile





How about this.
If you have a "personal opinion" you want to express, you do it with one of your chars that does not start with "CCP".
Posting in so many threads with your CCP Falcon char is wrong.

At best, it is annoying to jump to a dev comment only to find some throwaway one line comment by you.
At worst, it can be extremely misleading since many people who read a post by anyone with a CCP moniker believe that CCP employee is expressing an official CCP response, not "their personal opinion".

So stop doing it, and use one of your regular chars when you want to comment in a thread, unless you are stating a sanctioned CCP response on an issue.



Hey Dinsdale: December is nearly here.

The clock is ticking until you face Retribution for your terrible, terrible posting in the form of a bounty.

Are you looking forward to looking over your shoulder all the time?

"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli
Orzo Torasson
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#82 - 2012-11-12 00:42:51 UTC
I love it when people are like "Please excuse my bad English, it's not my native language" and then they go and post better than 99% of the people who visit these forums.

I think a bit of balance tweaking is needed (especially where the Loki is concerned), but all in all the T3's are awesome.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#83 - 2012-11-12 00:59:21 UTC
Orzo Torasson wrote:
I love it when people are like "Please excuse my bad English, it's not my native language" and then they go and post better than 99% of the people who visit these forums.

I think a bit of balance tweaking is needed (especially where the Loki is concerned), but all in all the T3's are awesome.

The Loki and Legion both need a bit of love. The Loki seems somewhat underpowered for most roles except fleet boosting and the Legion is underutilized except in very niche cases like incursions and wormhole PVP. The Proteus is of course an exceptional PVP ship with some PVE utility and the Tengu sees extensive use in both PVP and PVE.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#84 - 2012-11-12 01:09:22 UTC
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
wow considering your CCP and CCP say balancing ships isn't based on cost....


My job isn't to balance ships, so that's my personal opinion after having been a PvPer for best part of 10 years Smile





How about this.
If you have a "personal opinion" you want to express, you do it with one of your chars that does not start with "CCP".
Posting in so many threads with your CCP Falcon char is wrong.

At best, it is annoying to jump to a dev comment only to find some throwaway one line comment by you.
At worst, it can be extremely misleading since many people who read a post by anyone with a CCP moniker believe that CCP employee is expressing an official CCP response, not "their personal opinion".

So stop doing it, and use one of your regular chars when you want to comment in a thread, unless you are stating a sanctioned CCP response on an issue.



Hey Dinsdale: December is nearly here.

The clock is ticking until you face Retribution for your terrible, terrible posting in the form of a bounty.

Are you looking forward to looking over your shoulder all the time?


Yup.
You take the coward's way out.

You don't have the guts, or maybe the skills, to go after me now, so you need to enlist every griefer in the game on Dec 4th.
I am looking foward to undocking in a Proteus with a half mill in buffer and then gathering the griefer tears in a bucket.
Name Family Name
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#85 - 2012-11-12 01:12:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Name Family Name
BinaryData wrote:

Erebus as Fleet command with Level 5 skills, including Titan 5. Thats 7.5% more armor per level of Gallente Titan. So in total, the titan gives out 37.5% More armor. Throw in T3 6 Link Tech 3 booster, and oh my god, you're stats go up the yingyang. I've seen Abaddons, Zealots get up to 200k eHP or higher, and thats with gank/buffer fits.


Hmm? My standard alliance 'hellcat' Abaddon has 214 k EHP without any implants or fleet boosters in a simple T2 fit, whereas I'd most likely have to stretch it to a faction/officer fitted all-tank Zealot with HG slaves and the boosters you mentioned to get close to that.

Anyway - there are some examples of where T3s work fine - exploration ships with a cloak, probe launcher, salvager, codebreaker and analyzer are a near perfect example (well - they offer the option to probe too well due to being able to fit three probing rigs instead of two).

However, there are far too many configurations that allow a T3 doing the same thing as an existing T2 ship, just with more EHP, DPS or whatever. A Legion should never be better than a Zealot at being an AHAC, a tengu should never be the better Cerberus etc...

As a matter of fact there are only very few instances where this works properly, like a Drone-Proteus vs.Ishtar.



And with 100% Certainty, a highly mobile and hard to scan, couple of weeks trainig time T3 Cruiser should enever outmatch a months to train and easy to scan T2 Battlecuiser at being a fleetbooster.
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#86 - 2012-11-12 01:13:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Mars Theran
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
wow considering your CCP and CCP say balancing ships isn't based on cost....


My job isn't to balance ships, so that's my personal opinion after having been a PvPer for best part of 10 years Smile





How about this.
If you have a "personal opinion" you want to express, you do it with one of your chars that does not start with "CCP".
Posting in so many threads with your CCP Falcon char is wrong.

At best, it is annoying to jump to a dev comment only to find some throwaway one line comment by you.
At worst, it can be extremely misleading since many people who read a post by anyone with a CCP moniker believe that CCP employee is expressing an official CCP response, not "their personal opinion".

So stop doing it, and use one of your regular chars when you want to comment in a thread, unless you are stating a sanctioned CCP response on an issue.



Hey Dinsdale: December is nearly here.

The clock is ticking until you face Retribution for your terrible, terrible posting in the form of a bounty.

Are you looking forward to looking over your shoulder all the time?


Yup.
You take the coward's way out.

You don't have the guts, or maybe the skills, to go after me now, so you need to enlist every griefer in the game on Dec 4th.
I am looking foward to undocking in a Proteus with a half mill in buffer and then gathering the griefer tears in a bucket.



So, you're going to option for Station game without aggression then? Let me know how that works out for you.
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#87 - 2012-11-12 01:17:27 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
wow considering your CCP and CCP say balancing ships isn't based on cost....


My job isn't to balance ships, so that's my personal opinion after having been a PvPer for best part of 10 years Smile





How about this.
If you have a "personal opinion" you want to express, you do it with one of your chars that does not start with "CCP".
Posting in so many threads with your CCP Falcon char is wrong.

At best, it is annoying to jump to a dev comment only to find some throwaway one line comment by you.
At worst, it can be extremely misleading since many people who read a post by anyone with a CCP moniker believe that CCP employee is expressing an official CCP response, not "their personal opinion".

So stop doing it, and use one of your regular chars when you want to comment in a thread, unless you are stating a sanctioned CCP response on an issue.



Hey Dinsdale: December is nearly here.

The clock is ticking until you face Retribution for your terrible, terrible posting in the form of a bounty.

Are you looking forward to looking over your shoulder all the time?


Yup.
You take the coward's way out.

You don't have the guts, or maybe the skills, to go after me now, so you need to enlist every griefer in the game on Dec 4th.
I am looking foward to undocking in a Proteus with a half mill in buffer and then gathering the griefer tears in a bucket.

I think you're missing the point. It's the difference between ganking you because you pissed him off, and making your life hell because you deserve it.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#88 - 2012-11-12 01:20:33 UTC
Mars Theran wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:



Hey Dinsdale: December is nearly here.

The clock is ticking until you face Retribution for your terrible, terrible posting in the form of a bounty.

Are you looking forward to looking over your shoulder all the time?


Yup.
You take the coward's way out.

You don't have the guts, or maybe the skills, to go after me now, so you need to enlist every griefer in the game on Dec 4th.
I am looking foward to undocking in a Proteus with a half mill in buffer and then gathering the griefer tears in a bucket.



So, you're going to option for Station game without aggression then? Let me know how that works out for you.


Should work out pretty well. I don't have to shoot anything, and when someone shoots me Concord takes care of them, and I get a kill right. The griefers/cowards are going to love the new bounty system, but the mechanic where I can dock up if I don't aggress is unchanged.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#89 - 2012-11-12 01:49:43 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Should work out pretty well. I don't have to shoot anything, and when someone shoots me Concord takes care of them, and I get a kill right. The griefers/cowards are going to love the new bounty system, but the mechanic where I can dock up if I don't aggress is unchanged.

So if they're shooting at you, thus opening themselves up to attack since you can always defend yourself, and they won't be able to dock, eject, or jump for a minute after shooting you, how does that make them the cowards?

Have fun not being able to do anything BUT undock in heavily tanked ships only to redock at any sign of danger.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Keen Fallsword
Skyway Patrol
#90 - 2012-11-12 02:14:25 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
Vilnius Zar wrote:

Until CCP shows me they can actually make T3 cruisers balanced (as in they're all viable in their own way while not stomping T2s into the ground) I'm very much against any new type of T3s.


They are all viable in their own way. A pilgrim can solo a proteus for God sake. Prefect balance doesn't make for fun game play.


Not true it does.
Check the new raising star of MMO gaming star method = Wargaming known from World of Tanks. Their balancing its just awesome. If the one tank is better then others (they are checking statistics of every tank) they are nerfing it to make it equal with others in win/loss ratio. Its awesome way because they are making tanks fun to play for everyone. CCP wasn't balancing game for YEARS !!! I remeber two ships Drake and Hurricane (you can "win" the game with those two ships :) ) . Where are others in the same class ? And please dont tell me that brutix is awesome in small gangs bla bla bla. Ive heard that a lot in the last 7 yrs.. And yes if you can kick someone's ass in 1:1 duel scenario - because ships are equal and only player skill counts, game is good. for me at last.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#91 - 2012-11-12 02:27:12 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Should work out pretty well. I don't have to shoot anything, and when someone shoots me Concord takes care of them, and I get a kill right. The griefers/cowards are going to love the new bounty system, but the mechanic where I can dock up if I don't aggress is unchanged.

So if they're shooting at you, thus opening themselves up to attack since you can always defend yourself, and they won't be able to dock, eject, or jump for a minute after shooting you, how does that make them the cowards?

Have fun not being able to do anything BUT undock in heavily tanked ships only to redock at any sign of danger.


1. I am not the one being the coward using the new bounty mechanic to try to grief players out of the game.
2. Somehow suggesting suicide ganking someone for a bounty rings rather hollow when talking about cowards and honour.

You know James, sometimes I agree with you on stuff. But in this case you are way, way out of line.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#92 - 2012-11-12 02:35:17 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Should work out pretty well. I don't have to shoot anything, and when someone shoots me Concord takes care of them, and I get a kill right. The griefers/cowards are going to love the new bounty system, but the mechanic where I can dock up if I don't aggress is unchanged.

So if they're shooting at you, thus opening themselves up to attack since you can always defend yourself, and they won't be able to dock, eject, or jump for a minute after shooting you, how does that make them the cowards?

Have fun not being able to do anything BUT undock in heavily tanked ships only to redock at any sign of danger.


1. I am not the one being the coward using the new bounty mechanic to try to grief players out of the game.
2. Somehow suggesting suicide ganking someone for a bounty rings rather hollow when talking about cowards and honour.

You know James, sometimes I agree with you on stuff. But in this case you are way, way out of line.

1. I don't think that's what he was suggesting, at all.
2. I don't think that's what he was suggesting, at all.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Inquisitor Kitchner
The Executives
#93 - 2012-11-12 02:42:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Inquisitor Kitchner
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:


1. I am not the one being the coward using the new bounty mechanic to try to grief players out of the game.
2. Somehow suggesting suicide ganking someone for a bounty rings rather hollow when talking about cowards and honour.





1. If you left the game because I placed a bounty on you, that is a bonus side effect. You cant make someone quit.

2. I don't care about honour.

Dinsdale: I would like you to learn that your posting and your arguments are terrible, and people take exception to that and there are consequences for your actions. I don't intend to actually spend my time hunting you down personally because you haven't offended me personally. Hunting someone down for forum posts not even aimed at you, however terrible they may be, is a lot of pointless effort.

If I place a massive bounty on you (everyone else feel free to contribute) and you stop spouting inane rubbish on the forums in such a way that is actually quite offensive to some and not at all what the rest of the community wants to see, it achieves its goal. If you decide to quit the game because of said bounty, then the goal has also been achieved. I'm happy for you to start posting like a rational, decent and polite human being with no desire for you to quit the game in particular. However from experience if either of these happens it'll be the latter before the former.

I don't care how it happens, I'd just like to think you'll learn that spouting off this sort of inane rubbish has consequences.

"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli
Orzo Torasson
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#94 - 2012-11-12 03:18:02 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Orzo Torasson wrote:
I love it when people are like "Please excuse my bad English, it's not my native language" and then they go and post better than 99% of the people who visit these forums.

I think a bit of balance tweaking is needed (especially where the Loki is concerned), but all in all the T3's are awesome.

The Loki and Legion both need a bit of love. The Loki seems somewhat underpowered for most roles except fleet boosting and the Legion is underutilized except in very niche cases like incursions and wormhole PVP. The Proteus is of course an exceptional PVP ship with some PVE utility and the Tengu sees extensive use in both PVP and PVE.



I agree with you in that the Legion could use a bit of a buff too, but I was actually thinking about the other way for the Loki- it's the only T3 that can fit either an armor or shield tank and do both equally well while dealing decent (albeit short to medium range) DPS.
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#95 - 2012-11-12 03:35:00 UTC
Orzo Torasson wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Orzo Torasson wrote:
I love it when people are like "Please excuse my bad English, it's not my native language" and then they go and post better than 99% of the people who visit these forums.

I think a bit of balance tweaking is needed (especially where the Loki is concerned), but all in all the T3's are awesome.

The Loki and Legion both need a bit of love. The Loki seems somewhat underpowered for most roles except fleet boosting and the Legion is underutilized except in very niche cases like incursions and wormhole PVP. The Proteus is of course an exceptional PVP ship with some PVE utility and the Tengu sees extensive use in both PVP and PVE.



I agree with you in that the Legion could use a bit of a buff too, but I was actually thinking about the other way for the Loki- it's the only T3 that can fit either an armor or shield tank and do both equally well while dealing decent (albeit short to medium range) DPS.


Loki is Minmatar; that pretty much goes without saying. All Minmatar can swap tanks, and in fact, the Loki has alternative Subs for Armor and Shields. I don't see an issue with that. I have noticed however, that even with all the right Subs, the Loki seems to me to be Sub-standard on DPS.
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#96 - 2012-11-12 04:17:45 UTC
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:


1. I am not the one being the coward using the new bounty mechanic to try to grief players out of the game.
2. Somehow suggesting suicide ganking someone for a bounty rings rather hollow when talking about cowards and honour.





1. If you left the game because I placed a bounty on you, that is a bonus side effect. You cant make someone quit.

2. I don't care about honour.

Dinsdale: I would like you to learn that your posting and your arguments are terrible, and people take exception to that and there are consequences for your actions. I don't intend to actually spend my time hunting you down personally because you haven't offended me personally. Hunting someone down for forum posts not even aimed at you, however terrible they may be, is a lot of pointless effort.

If I place a massive bounty on you (everyone else feel free to contribute) and you stop spouting inane rubbish on the forums in such a way that is actually quite offensive to some and not at all what the rest of the community wants to see, it achieves its goal. If you decide to quit the game because of said bounty, then the goal has also been achieved. I'm happy for you to start posting like a rational, decent and polite human being with no desire for you to quit the game in particular. However from experience if either of these happens it'll be the latter before the former.

I don't care how it happens, I'd just like to think you'll learn that spouting off this sort of inane rubbish has consequences.


Spoken like a griefer and a coward.

What I post may be offensive to you, but you are not the arbiter of what is said on these forums. CCP has its own censorship team for that.
As for you teaching me some kind of lesson, think again.
I have dealt with your kind in game and in RL for a long time.

You try, quite badly at that, to hide your cowardice and bullying behind words, like "emergent gameplay", and "bad posting".
But simply put, you are a griefer. As for me quitting the game, you just may revitalize my interest in the game, because I may actually have to shoot asshats like you, when I start acquiring killrights. I say asshats LIKE you, because I am quite confident you will never look me up personally. Cowards like you never do.

Oh, and I am sitting on quite decent stack of coin, that will buy quite a few plexes and ships.
If I DO choose to leave the game at some point(I closed down all my other accounts this past summer due to Soundwave's actions), it will because of my dis-satisfaction with CCP's product, not because of some person like you.
Ghazu
#97 - 2012-11-12 04:19:28 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:


1. I am not the one being the coward using the new bounty mechanic to try to grief players out of the game.
2. Somehow suggesting suicide ganking someone for a bounty rings rather hollow when talking about cowards and honour.





1. If you left the game because I placed a bounty on you, that is a bonus side effect. You cant make someone quit.

2. I don't care about honour.

Dinsdale: I would like you to learn that your posting and your arguments are terrible, and people take exception to that and there are consequences for your actions. I don't intend to actually spend my time hunting you down personally because you haven't offended me personally. Hunting someone down for forum posts not even aimed at you, however terrible they may be, is a lot of pointless effort.

If I place a massive bounty on you (everyone else feel free to contribute) and you stop spouting inane rubbish on the forums in such a way that is actually quite offensive to some and not at all what the rest of the community wants to see, it achieves its goal. If you decide to quit the game because of said bounty, then the goal has also been achieved. I'm happy for you to start posting like a rational, decent and polite human being with no desire for you to quit the game in particular. However from experience if either of these happens it'll be the latter before the former.

I don't care how it happens, I'd just like to think you'll learn that spouting off this sort of inane rubbish has consequences.


Spoken like a griefer and a coward.

What I post may be offensive to you, but you are not the arbiter of what is said on these forums. CCP has its own censorship team for that.
As for you teaching me some kind of lesson, think again.
I have dealt with your kind in game and in RL for a long time.

You try, quite badly at that, to hide your cowardice and bullying behind words, like "emergent gameplay", and "bad posting".
But simply put, you are a griefer. As for me quitting the game, you just may revitalize my interest in the game, because I may actually have to shoot asshats like you, when I start acquiring killrights. I say asshats LIKE you, because I am quite confident you will never look me up personally. Cowards like you never do.

Oh, and I am sitting on quite decent stack of coin, that will buy quite a few plexes and ships.
If I DO choose to leave the game at some point(I closed down all my other accounts this past summer due to Soundwave's actions), it will because of my dis-satisfaction with CCP's product, not because of some person like you.


"i am not coming back until eve-survival gets updated so i know how to farm. "

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984
CaptainFalcon07
Scarlet Weather Rhapsody
#98 - 2012-11-12 04:36:46 UTC
I like how these people with their dumb sayings like how Tech 3 is better than Tech 2 ships. How so?

-Tech 3 are rather poor logistic ships compared to Tech 2 and now the Tech 1 variants coming.

-There is no Tech 3 Hictor.

-Tech 2 Recons have superior Ewar/Neut Power compared to their Tech 3 Variants.

-Tech 2 HAC's have advantages that Tech 3 doesn't like mobility and speed, smaller sig radius, and LR advantages.

-Tech 3 Leadership boosting is already being fixed with the upcoming changes.

I'm Down
Macabre Votum
Northern Coalition.
#99 - 2012-11-12 04:51:58 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Falcon
Trolling is bad for your forum posting health - CCP Falcon
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#100 - 2012-11-12 04:56:25 UTC
CaptainFalcon07 wrote:
I like how these people with their dumb sayings like how Tech 3 is better than Tech 2 ships. How so?

-Tech 3 are rather poor logistic ships compared to Tech 2 and now the Tech 1 variants coming.

-There is no Tech 3 Hictor.

-Tech 2 Recons have superior Ewar/Neut Power compared to their Tech 3 Variants.

-Tech 2 HAC's have advantages that Tech 3 doesn't like mobility and speed, smaller sig radius, and LR advantages.

-Tech 3 Leadership boosting is already being fixed with the upcoming changes.



There are few T3 niche fits that are far superior to their T2 counterparts, but they are few and far between.
Example: I fly both an Ishtar and a Proteus for mission running. The Ishtar is far superior when it comes to tanking Angels, but the Proteus is superior against Serps, Guristas, and in many cases, em/therm NPC's.

Further, the Proteus, Tengu, and Loki are superb PvP boats. (poor, poor Legion, stick with Incursions)
There is a reason that certain null alliances will fill a fleet with 250 Tengus.
They can perform a role that no T2 can.

But ultimately, a T2 specialist boat (Recon, HIC, Logi) are better than a T3.

Bottom line, with a T3, you get what you pay for. There is a reason that a hull and 5 subs is still costing north of 400M.