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Warfare & Tactics

 
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One last fix to make Faction Warfare benifit those who PVP.

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Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
#21 - 2012-11-10 11:21:01 UTC
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69 wrote:


Deen Wispa wrote:
This is too much LP. It has had an negative impact on the Gallente FW store as well. Practically everything has tanked.


Wow. It's almost like the market is regulating the amount people earn based on the availability of LP.


No, what it is, is all the '1337' PvP'ers complaining because they aren't making as much money as they were before inferno from running their missions. It is a simple case of buyers remorse. They championed change because they couldn't compete with the CALALT army in the first iteration of FW change, and they are crying again because now their LP isn't worth as much as when missions were the only way to gain LP.

Here is a hint Deen, EVERYTHING has tanked and you have only your factions crying and complaining to blame.

SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN!! http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schalac
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#22 - 2012-11-10 11:46:47 UTC
Schalac wrote:
Damar Rocarion wrote:
Vordak Kallager wrote:
No one did missions in pre-Inferno? What are you smoking?


he is referring to "old times" when missions gave crappy lp and actual conversion ratio in lp store was pretty bad. Then came Gallente sponsored Ankh CSM and that's pretty much the moment FW started going wrong.

You mean the moment that everyone and their mother joined Cal Mil to farm missions and then used the inflated numbers that the change brought to champion more changes because of the so called "imbalance" of "players" on the caldari side.


Sounds a lot like the amarr for the last few months doesn't it.



I don't know about other amarr. But this amarr always prefered economic balance and the good fights it brings, over trillions of isk making the war lopsided.

We could have had everything pvp, money to pvp, and balance. But CCP started out by just throwing tons of money at their new feature before making mechanics changes to increase the balance and pvp. This brought some exta pvp due to the sheer number of people farming isk in the same place. But now that the isk is drying up and most of the noobs are leaving we just have an unbalanced war with a bunch of other changes casual pvpers hate. Null style station lock outs, and soon we will have to spam the dscan button like the oc wh dwellers everytime we run a plex in a busy system.

Lets face it, all our hopes that ccp would turn fw plexing into this awesome crazy pvp mechanic were completely misguided. Instead of making plexing a pvp mechanic they turned it into a more annoying form of pve.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
#23 - 2012-11-10 12:39:14 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Schalac wrote:
Damar Rocarion wrote:
Vordak Kallager wrote:
No one did missions in pre-Inferno? What are you smoking?


he is referring to "old times" when missions gave crappy lp and actual conversion ratio in lp store was pretty bad. Then came Gallente sponsored Ankh CSM and that's pretty much the moment FW started going wrong.

You mean the moment that everyone and their mother joined Cal Mil to farm missions and then used the inflated numbers that the change brought to champion more changes because of the so called "imbalance" of "players" on the caldari side.


Sounds a lot like the amarr for the last few months doesn't it.



I don't know about other amarr. But this amarr always prefered economic balance and the good fights it brings, over trillions of isk making the war lopsided.

We could have had everything pvp, money to pvp, and balance. But CCP started out by just throwing tons of money at their new feature before making mechanics changes to increase the balance and pvp. This brought some exta pvp due to the sheer number of people farming isk in the same place. But now that the isk is drying up and most of the noobs are leaving we just have an unbalanced war with a bunch of other changes casual pvpers hate. Null style station lock outs, and soon we will have to spam the dscan button like the oc wh dwellers everytime we run a plex in a busy system.

Lets face it, all our hopes that ccp would turn fw plexing into this awesome crazy pvp mechanic were completely misguided. Instead of making plexing a pvp mechanic they turned it into a more annoying form of pve.

Except that the way the plex mechanic worked at the start of Inferno was the same mechanic that was around for years. All they did was added LP for completing them. How people thought that this was going to drive more PvP is beyond me. There was a thread in 2010 or 2009 about how to fix plexing and before there was even talk about getting LP for it that was like 20+ pages. Yet CCP, as always, took a look at the main complaint, the frogs saying that there is no point in plexing because it doesn't mean anything and you get nothing from it, and they were plenty vocal about it too. While all of the good ideas are tossed aside and look who is the main ones complaining again...those damned frogs. Except this time they are complaining that it is too easy to make LP.

I just can't wait to see what is going to happen when DUST starts to count towards system control as well. I wonder if you will get LP that will be transferable to EVE items.

SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN!! http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schalac
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#24 - 2012-11-10 13:59:09 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69 wrote:
Ok accepting your first few points here, but this is just silly, what if 310k LP is only worth 10m? do you still have a problem with it then? There seems to be an attitude of 'OMG big number, that must be wrong' Even though mission runners are now earning a small fraction of what was possible pre-patch.
31 Federation Navy Comets will always be worth more than 100 million isk - to me. However, I get your point - I just don't think it applies in this case.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#25 - 2012-11-10 15:08:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
While I don't blame frogs or any particular faction it is true that ccp just threw isk at fw as opposed to changing the actual plex dmechanic to make it less pve and more pvp.

Some frogs like chatgris warned against that approach.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#26 - 2012-11-10 16:52:24 UTC
Cearain wrote:
While I don't blame frogs or any particular faction it is true that ccp just threw isk at fw as opposed to changing the actual plex dmechanic to make it less pve and more pvp.

Some frogs like chatgris warned against that approach.

*sigh* please log in and play the game.
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#27 - 2012-11-10 17:38:39 UTC  |  Edited by: chatgris
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69 wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
The LP multiplier for missions is rubbish. And yes, making 310k LP/hour for an activity that doesn't help the occupancy war is not right.


Ok accepting your first few points here, but this is just silly, what if 310k LP is only worth 10m? do you still have a problem with it then?


Yes - because mission running is a purely pve activity, no way for the opposing side to fail your mission (you can reject the one pickup missions that pays crap), and it makes far far more LP than the pvp activities (plexing).

It is EXACTLY because the market adjusts that this is a problem.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#28 - 2012-11-11 14:14:13 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
While I don't blame frogs or any particular faction it is true that ccp just threw isk at fw as opposed to changing the actual plex dmechanic to make it less pve and more pvp.

Some frogs like chatgris warned against that approach.

*sigh* please log in and play the game.



I did. Last time I roamed for about an hour in a merlin. I was willing to fight some afs, any destroyers and most navy frigates and of course other t1 frigates. No fights. A comet in a plex ran from me and I warped from a plex when and enemy altron, firetail and catalyst landed. The time before that I roamed for about an hour and got one so so fight. Another time before that I roamed for about 1.5 hours and got 1 fight.

This is barely better - if at all - than pre inferno. There was a time right after inferno when I could get 3-7 fights per 2 hours. Thats pretty much no longer the case. The only thing they did to increase the fights in fw was throw allot of isk at it and thereby increase the number of people per system. Now that the isk has dried up, it's the same as ever.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69
Crouching Woman Hidden Cucumber
#29 - 2012-11-11 14:33:07 UTC
chatgris wrote:
Yes - because mission running is a purely pve activity, no way for the opposing side to fail your mission (you can reject the one pickup missions that pays crap), and it makes far far more LP than the pvp activities (plexing).


Fair enough, I always understood it as LP from kills and plexing where just to help you along with the intention of missions being an income source.

I still maintain it would be better if none of it gave LP and missions were the only income source, funnily enough that was when plexing gave the best fights. At least then you could ignore people who were farming and you knew when someone was plexing they wanted a fight, now the two are far too blurred.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#30 - 2012-11-11 14:39:05 UTC
Cearain wrote:
I did. Last time I roamed for about an hour in a merlin. I was willing to fight some afs, any destroyers and most navy frigates and of course other t1 frigates. No fights.
You must be the worst solo roamer in the history of Eve. Seriously.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#31 - 2012-11-11 14:40:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
I did. Last time I roamed for about an hour in a merlin. I was willing to fight some afs, any destroyers and most navy frigates and of course other t1 frigates. No fights.
You must be the worst solo roamer in the history of Eve. Seriously.



How many decent fights are you getting per 2 hours of a solo roam?

Edit: and were you getting more than 3-7 decent fights per 2 hours right after inferno?

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Damar Rocarion
Nasranite Watch
#32 - 2012-11-11 15:50:39 UTC
Of course frogs want nerf to mission LP so we cannot use our alts to take advantage of their CCP sponsored high-tier and engage in asymmetrical warfare by dumping down the value of their LP.
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
#33 - 2012-11-11 16:51:03 UTC
HTFU

SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN!! http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schalac
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#34 - 2012-11-11 17:21:52 UTC
Damar Rocarion wrote:
Of course frogs want nerf to mission LP so we cannot use our alts to take advantage of their CCP sponsored high-tier and engage in asymmetrical warfare by dumping down the value of their LP.
Exactly. That's why. We all hate Damar and try to find any reason we can to ruin his isk making activities.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#35 - 2012-11-11 17:31:05 UTC
Cearain wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
I did. Last time I roamed for about an hour in a merlin. I was willing to fight some afs, any destroyers and most navy frigates and of course other t1 frigates. No fights.
You must be the worst solo roamer in the history of Eve. Seriously.

How many decent fights are you getting per 2 hours of a solo roam?
Edit: and were you getting more than 3-7 decent fights per 2 hours right after inferno?

I can get into a fight within 10 minutes of undocking.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#36 - 2012-11-11 17:55:24 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
I did. Last time I roamed for about an hour in a merlin. I was willing to fight some afs, any destroyers and most navy frigates and of course other t1 frigates. No fights.
You must be the worst solo roamer in the history of Eve. Seriously.

How many decent fights are you getting per 2 hours of a solo roam?
Edit: and were you getting more than 3-7 decent fights per 2 hours right after inferno?

I can get into a fight within 10 minutes of undocking.


You are claiming you can get a decent solo fight within 10 minutes of signing on? Roll

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Dread Operative
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#37 - 2012-11-11 19:07:31 UTC
Damar Rocarion wrote:
Of course frogs want nerf to mission LP so we cannot use our alts to take advantage of their CCP sponsored high-tier and engage in asymmetrical warfare by dumping down the value of their LP.


Use your alt to plex then you ninny. The reason is to stabilize FW item prices. Or how about you use your main, AND TAKE SOME SYSTEMS!!!!! Gasp!!!!
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#38 - 2012-11-11 19:19:13 UTC
Cearain wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
I did. Last time I roamed for about an hour in a merlin. I was willing to fight some afs, any destroyers and most navy frigates and of course other t1 frigates. No fights.
You must be the worst solo roamer in the history of Eve. Seriously.

How many decent fights are you getting per 2 hours of a solo roam?
Edit: and were you getting more than 3-7 decent fights per 2 hours right after inferno?

I can get into a fight within 10 minutes of undocking.

You are claiming you can get a decent solo fight within 10 minutes of signing on? Roll

Yes, but that's because I choose to engage people even if they have an initial advantage, even if it's 1 vs multiple targets. But YMMV. Since comets are cheap - even though I've done this with comets before Inferno, during inferno, and now after this latest patch, so inb4 you're "You're at Tier 4 so you can afford to have fun" whine post.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#39 - 2012-11-11 19:31:27 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:

Edit: and were you getting more than 3-7 decent fights per 2 hours right after inferno?

I can get into a fight within 10 minutes of undocking.

You are claiming you can get a decent solo fight within 10 minutes of signing on? Roll

Yes, but that's because I choose to engage people even if they have an initial advantage, even if it's 1 vs multiple targets. But YMMV. Since comets are cheap - even though I've done this with comets before Inferno, during inferno, and now after this latest patch, so inb4 you're "You're at Tier 4 so you can afford to have fun" whine post.



I don't have a problem engaging versus multiple targets either. But I only occassionally suicide my ships.

XG your claim that you find decent solo pvp fights every 10 minutes just demonstrates how removed from reality your view is.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Dread Operative
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#40 - 2012-11-11 20:06:10 UTC
Cearain wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:

Edit: and were you getting more than 3-7 decent fights per 2 hours right after inferno?

I can get into a fight within 10 minutes of undocking.

You are claiming you can get a decent solo fight within 10 minutes of signing on? Roll

Yes, but that's because I choose to engage people even if they have an initial advantage, even if it's 1 vs multiple targets. But YMMV. Since comets are cheap - even though I've done this with comets before Inferno, during inferno, and now after this latest patch, so inb4 you're "You're at Tier 4 so you can afford to have fun" whine post.



I don't have a problem engaging versus multiple targets either. But I only occassionally suicide my ships.

XG your claim that you find decent solo pvp fights every 10 minutes just demonstrates how removed from reality your view is.


Or yours. And he didn't say every, he said within 10 min. Its not that hard, do a minor in Eha. The fights roll in.