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Upcoming BC/BS/CS Changes

Author
Metal Icarus
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#21 - 2012-11-08 17:05:50 UTC
Jacob Holland wrote:
The Ferox with a Damage and Optimal bonus is totally outclassed on both Optimal and Damage by the Naga with its eight higher base range, higher base damage, BS railguns - trying to make the Ferox into a sniper is absolutely the wrong way to go.

The Tier 3s make the job of balancing and assigning roles to all of the T1 BCs far more difficult than was the case with cruisers and frigates - they're just so far off the norm.

As to others mentioned, I'd prefer to see the Harb become the drone boat - its looks are more suited IMHO, with the Prophecy getting an ROF bonus (I would like to see a boost to its drone bay to make it more like the 'geddon but...) and resist bonus.

A good deal of this rebalance is tricky, the Tier 3 BCs are a major factor but the rebalance is also starting to reach iconic ships - the Megathron for example which is faced with competition from the Hyp and the wish from many people to retain its current status.


Have you ever tried shooting destroyers and frigs with a naga? Alignment is so important that you would have to pray that your target would make the mistake of aligning to you and turn on their MWD.

The ferox doesn't need them to make a mistake, damage gets applied much more often.
Britannica
Legion of Ghost
#22 - 2012-11-08 17:38:01 UTC
I'm optimistic about some of the proposed changes. the ferox might end up being a reasonable choice for close to mid range hybrid combat while the naga sticks to sniping. also nice to see the raven is getting a look in and the typhoon becoming a torp brawler.

I was suprised to see the idea of making the prophecy a drone boat, not yet sure how that one will work out. the prophecy does look like its spent all day eating drones though so perhaps it does make some sense
Lili Lu
#23 - 2012-11-08 19:40:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Lili Lu
Dibblerette wrote:
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
125/ 200 would be more Gallente.

That starts to infringe on Ishtar/Dominix usage though, I'm betting 100 bandwidth and 200 or so bay.

The Myrm already had 125 bandwidth. It got nerfed right away, and harshly down to 75.

It will be 100, unless they do something like cutting the turrets in half. But even then I doubt they would allow it to be fit with all neuts and 5 heavy drones for damage. 100 sits right in between 75 of a Vexor and 125 of a Domi, conceptually it makes sense, and in Eve there are some conceptual design decisions in the game irrespective of other factors.

The interesting part will be the cuts in a slot from the tier 2s (and presumably the Cyclone as well at least as far as a high?), or addition to some like the prohpecy. 17 slots is a current Cyclone, 16 is the current Prophecy, 18 is the current tier 2s that aren't Myrm. For some ships like the Drake and Harby they could lose that 8th high and it would have no effect on either ship. So it will all depend on how they get reshuffled. Slot restructuring will certainly be shaking up the current paradigms with BCs.Smile
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
#24 - 2012-11-08 19:46:05 UTC
Lili Lu wrote:
The interesting part will be the cuts in a slot from the tier 2s (and presumably the Cyclone as well?). For some ships like the Drake and Harby they could lose that 8th high and it would have no effect on either ship.

That would make no sense. But could be OK if -1 turret/launcher hardpoint follows, which brings them closer to HACs in terms of DPS.

Either way, I'm excited and anticipating lots of fun both from actual PvP and forum tears.

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.

Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#25 - 2012-11-08 20:11:45 UTC
Odds are the tier 2 BCs will all lose a slot (including the Myrmidon) and that the Ferox and Brutix will both gain a slot. The Cyclone is already at 17, and the Prophecy is becoming a drone boat so it'll likely remain at 16. The Myrmidon will still be a drone boat, so it'll have to be decreased to 16 slots as well.

Of course, this is just going by CCP's typical balance ideas.

I'm interested to see how things turn out.
stoicfaux
#26 - 2012-11-08 20:13:36 UTC
Sounds like CCP is mixing things up, where "mixing things up" means more intra-faction choices which in turn means more cross-training to fly all of a faction's ships which means more training time which means more sub money. Quixotically, it also encourages inter-faction cross-training since Faction A's skills are now easier to carry over to Faction B, and, as previously noted, more cross-training equals more sub money.


Twisted

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#27 - 2012-11-08 20:23:43 UTC
Because people unsubscribe when there are no skills left to train.
turmajin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2012-11-08 23:15:06 UTC
Looking forward to how the balances pan out,as a whole.But i do feel Gellente hulls really do need something,either a speed buff to offset tracking ,espically for the blaster ships because of the weapons very short range .Or a buff for hybrid weapons as a whole blasters either need to deliver a massive scary DPS or a range buff so they are inline with ACs and P-Lasars,while railguns imo should have the longest range in game of any gunnery system .To fit in with what i precive to be Gelente military doctrine,Drone hulls like the Myri or Domi should have bonuses for railguns and Drone DPS,while Megs and Brutix ect ,should have bonuses for speed and blasters or speed and armour resists
Alara IonStorm
#29 - 2012-11-09 01:31:23 UTC
Metal Icarus wrote:
Jacob Holland wrote:
The Ferox with a Damage and Optimal bonus is totally outclassed on both Optimal and Damage by the Naga with its eight higher base range, higher base damage, BS railguns - trying to make the Ferox into a sniper is absolutely the wrong way to go.

The Tier 3s make the job of balancing and assigning roles to all of the T1 BCs far more difficult than was the case with cruisers and frigates - they're just so far off the norm.


Have you ever tried shooting destroyers and frigs with a naga? Alignment is so important that you would have to pray that your target would make the mistake of aligning to you and turn on their MWD.

The ferox doesn't need them to make a mistake, damage gets applied much more often.

In addition to that I see the word Sniper whenever anyone talks Rails of any size just because they have good range. Heavy Missiles fly about as far as not range bonused Hybrids shoot with Spike and no one calls them Snipers.

They are considered Mid Range, that is what the new Ferox will be, Mid Range. With 7 / 250mm's with 3 Mags you are looking at 400 DPS out to 50km using CN Uranium Ammo, 500 with AM / Jav. That is before Drones.

Naga can be the "Sniper" All it wants to be. I foresee a great accurate mid range fleet boat like the current Arty Cane. It is such a shame they didn't make the Moa a Rail Skirmish ship instead of a Shield Thorax. There are no T1 Cruiser Rail Boats. At least they are not as bad as Medium Beams though, not seeing those things on T1 Ships anytime soon.
serras bang
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#30 - 2012-11-09 01:40:18 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
The Drake, Harb, Cane, and possibly Myrm will all be losing a slot somewhere in their layouts. I'm surprised at the lack of screaming going on.Shocked


if given a buff with pg and cpu a drake can easily afford a low slot loss or a med if not a low without a pg or cpu buff.
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2012-11-14 13:35:35 UTC
Buff to Drone damage amplifier seems relevant, although I wouldn't mind renaming as well.
Any news on faction DDAs? Guess not.
Noisrevbus
#32 - 2012-11-14 14:08:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Noisrevbus
Alara IonStorm wrote:

In addition to that I see the word Sniper whenever anyone talks Rails of any size just because they have good range. Heavy Missiles fly about as far as not range bonused Hybrids shoot with Spike and no one calls them Snipers.


That on the other hand have to do with player-labelling (that CCP have also encouraged suggestively). Rails are considered sniping weapons on the same premise that made some people consider Caldari ships rail platforms and Gallente ships blaster platforms. That backwards logic have made people refer to them (correctly, but on incorrect terms) as snipers because many Caldari turret platforms had range bonuses.

When properly defined: Rails are sniping weapons because they are a long-range weapon, same as HML are sniping weapons as they too are long-range weapons, like Beam lasers and Artillery. That also mean that the loose term "sniper" today can be estimated to average ranges for common setups on ships without range bonuses (ie., "sniping" have gone from being defined as 150km+, to 100km+, to about 80km+). It'll be interesting to see if the HML nerf affect the consensus regarding ranges or wether the SR BS systems manage to sustain the trend on their own.

It'll also be interesting to see how that (together with the booster changes) change the outlook on Recon ranges and how those things together will affect the game at large. Up until this winter expansion you have been able to point people outside the range of L-pulse, HML and other "upper midrange" systems. Prior to Crucible there were also very few ships that maintained the older defined "sniping range" of 100km (from bonused Cruiser-systems and Recons), and also had the mobility to affect distances the way a ship with Cruiser speed and BS reach does. Alot of people never thought about that when it came to L-pulse and HML that have been at ranges popular for years.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#33 - 2012-11-14 14:43:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
Malcanis wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
The Drake, Harb, Cane, and possibly Myrm will all be losing a slot somewhere in their layouts. I'm surprised at the lack of screaming going on.Shocked


Myrm was already down a slot


As it should be.

Speaking of the Myrm, I'm rooting for 100mbit/250m^3

That would place it nicely in the middle between the Vexor and the Dominix.


That would put Prophecy at 275m3 or more.

100/150 or 100/175 for Myrm
75/175 or 75/200 for Prophecy
?
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#34 - 2012-11-14 20:05:35 UTC
A 125m^3 Myrm would in no way impinge upon the role of the Ishtar and Domi. The Myrm is too slow to replace the Ishtar and doesn't have heavy neuts/large RR/large blasters as the Domi does.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Ares Desideratus
UNSAFE SPACE
#35 - 2012-11-14 20:55:29 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
A 125m^3 Myrm would in no way impinge upon the role of the Ishtar and Domi. The Myrm is too slow to replace the Ishtar and doesn't have heavy neuts/large RR/large blasters as the Domi does.

-Liang

it would kind of conflict with the ishtar but that's only cause the ishtar hasnt been buffed yet
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