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Trading, i don't get it.

Author
Prince Volcae
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-11-07 07:00:50 UTC
basicaly I am tring to find good trade routes and well its hard for me to find any. i have foind only one that seems of any valure in highsec to me. Basicaly I buy a product at one station at the system make a few jumps and trade for a higher price at the last system. How can I find other trade routes or how does it realy work? Also what is station trading? How does that work and how can that benifit me in Gellente space. My relations with the Caldari and Amar are not so good. If you do not want togive any info on here send me a message. any advice would be great.

De la mesure dont nous mesurons les autres nous serons mesurés.

clamslayer
Doomheim
#2 - 2012-11-07 07:12:49 UTC
I would suggest a new EVE career.
Prince Volcae
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-11-07 07:14:21 UTC
why is that?

De la mesure dont nous mesurons les autres nous serons mesurés.

Tul Breetai
Impromptu Asset Requisition
#4 - 2012-11-07 07:53:15 UTC
Are you open to strongly implied indentured servitude? If yes, convo me in-game. If no, set destination to Amamake and check out the market for new implants.

There's nothing worse than an EVE player, generally considered to be top of the food chain in the MMO world, that cannot smacktalk with wit and coherency.

DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#5 - 2012-11-07 07:55:29 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Prince Volcae wrote:
why is that?


Well Jita is THE HUB OF EVE w/o good enough standing to travel there (Caldari) U are screwed.
Amarr is a far second and third is farther still
Finding aniche isimportant & once you find it you are at the whims of nerfs & hevy competition inHI SEC
You want agood trade route that isvery profitable you have to be ready for the risks on lo, NULL, & chancy WH spaces
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Tom Hagen
Twilight Empire
Rate My Ticks
#6 - 2012-11-07 08:04:53 UTC
Because you fail at finding trade routes. Not a very helpful comment. But some take it for granted that it should be easy to trade.

You mention you do your trade in Gallente space. It is hard to find trade routes unless you working between trade hubs.
In that case try to find a mission hub, place buy orders on common dropped loot and wait a while before transporting it to a trade hub. But you will hardly be alone in that practice. And often a good mission hubs and trade hub are the same :-)

Often in trade you need to have a bit of patients, it is hardly ever worth it to buy on direct buy and then try to sell it to a sell order.
Also you don't mention at what % of profit you are trying to get. Maybe you have to high expectations, often in trade you only get a few % of profit. Often we trade in volume and try to diversify. If it is something that is very lucrative there will always be some other that pick up the slack and pretty soon the competition have eroded the really good profit items.

Station trading most often refer to a person who place buy orders on items and the try to resell them at a higher price with their own sell orders. Earning their profit on the spread. Works best in trade hubs ofc..
Prince Volcae
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-11-07 13:23:00 UTC
I dont see how station trading work?

De la mesure dont nous mesurons les autres nous serons mesurés.

Riyal
invidious Squid
#8 - 2012-11-07 13:45:19 UTC
Station trading;
1) Put up a buy order for an item.
2) When some are sold to you put it up on a sell order.

The profit you make is the difference between the two prices (less taxes), a populated system and popular items are desirable.

In hindsight my post should have had more psssshhhh

Prince Volcae
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-11-07 13:55:57 UTC
That made no sence to me. Is there a vedio at all with it shown?

De la mesure dont nous mesurons les autres nous serons mesurés.

Riyal
invidious Squid
#10 - 2012-11-07 14:13:12 UTC
You buy items at a low price, then sell them at a higher price, and you do this from the same station.

In hindsight my post should have had more psssshhhh

Ioci
Bad Girl Posse
Somethin Awfull Forums
#11 - 2012-11-07 16:17:00 UTC
Riyal wrote:
You buy items at a low price, then sell them at a higher price, and you do this from the same station.


This. It's called speculating. A little over month ago Meta 4 Heavy Assault Missile launchers were selling for around 500K
Now the buy orders are around a mill.

I turned 500 mill in to a Billion in a month and never left Jita IV 4

R.I.P. Vile Rat

Oska Rus
Free Ice Cream People
#12 - 2012-11-07 16:33:05 UTC
Good trade routes are most easily find when you are station trading in each trade hub. And haul goods in profitable manner or use eve central.

Stable trade route is imho nonexistant. Because trade route oportuninty is created by price impallance and that imballance is eliminated by hauling goods. So if you want to haul for profit you have to get used to finding new trade routes all the time and have reasonable capital at hand (bill or few of them).

Otherwise you are much better doing missions or afk mining.

Great sources of information are greedy goblins blog (he is one sick trader) and trying to google eve trading guide ;-) .
Nayl Mkoll
Godless Horizon.
Atlas. Alliance
#13 - 2012-11-07 21:18:53 UTC
Prince Volcae wrote:
That made no sence to me. Is there a vedio at all with it shown?


if it still makes no sense see the first post about changing careers. 98% of trade is traditional economics of a brokerage system. The only part of it that you need in gave 'EVE' knowledge is to know what gets consumed and whats valuable.
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#14 - 2012-11-08 00:53:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Akita T
Look at market prices of random or not so random stuff.
Highest buy order is almost always always LOWER than the lowest sell order in any particular station - especially in trade hubs like Jita - and it's usually lower by at least 5% or thereabouts (when it's not lower, something fishy might be going on, and you'd best stay clear either way).

Practical example, let's say we look at Ballistic Control System II in The Forge in general, and Jita in particular.
Let's say most sell orders are at 905k ISK or over that, and most buy orders are at 835k and under that.

Now, if you yourself place a buy order at 840k ISK (cost in broker fees depends on skills and standings, but usually under 9k ISK), then eventually get one sold to you, it means you paid a total of 850k ISK to get one.
Then you turn around and place the item for sale with a sell order of your own at 900k ISK.
It costs you roughly at most 9k ISK to place that order too (reduced by skills and standings), and then when it sells, you also automatically pay a sales tax (another 9k without skill bonuses), so you get a bit over 880k for it.
Yet you only paid 850k for it in the first place.
You just pocket the ~880k - ~850k = 30+k difference AS PROFIT.
And that's per item, without any skills nor standings. With skills and standings, you can reduce all those fees you paid so far (around 27k) to less than half of that, even just a third of that, meaning you make an even bigger profit per item that passes through your hands (almost double in this particular case).
Now look at how many of those items are bought and sold each day (thousands), and imagine what if even a tenth of that passed through your hands instead of anybody else's hands... you'd be making dozens of millions of ISK for just having the best orders in place, not even logged in.

The total tax burden on a complete newbie with no skills and neutral standings is roughly 3% (2x 1% broker fees, 1x 1% sales tax ; EDIT - might be different this day since I don't exactly recall how they recently changed market taxes - END EDIT), which means that even a complete newbie can make a profit even if the difference between buy and sell is barely over 3% - although you generally want to only bother with items that have at least 5% difference, and even then, only if the total volume is high.


Of course, it's not quite that simple, since people WILL overbid your buy orders and underbid your sell orders quite fast in a place like Jita, so you'd have to either stick around to keep updating prices, or accept a much smaller total volume of items for whatever happens to reach back to whatever prices you have set before logging out.
However, go into a more quiet area (not ac ompletely quiet one, of course, just a bit more "out of the way" of the classic trade hubs), and all of a sudden, competition is rather lax, and the differences between buy and sell can be huge. The downside is that volume is low.

All in all, it's a matter of taste and playstyle which one you prefer to do, station-trade in a busy hub (slim profit per item but high volume and high competition meaning you can make a lot of ISK but you need to be active) or in an out-of-the-way system (huge profit per item and low or even no competition, but very low volume, meaning you still make a halfway decent amount of ISK and you don't really need to be very active).

You never actually have to leave the station for any of that.
Selene D'Celeste
The D'Celeste Trading Company
ISK Six
#15 - 2012-11-08 02:59:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Selene D'Celeste
Prince Volcae wrote:
That made no sence to me. Is there a vedio at all with it shown?


You're bad at trading and should feel bad.

Akita T wrote:
Words


I haven't been here in months. Glad you're still around, doing your thing!

Visit www.eohpoker.com and enjoy EVE's oldest ISK gaming service!

Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2012-11-08 03:13:23 UTC
You're not going to make much money buying an item from a sell order in one station, and then selling it off in another for a profit. You're doing it backwards. You want to setup orders to buy items, and then set those items up as sell orders.

Basically what you want to do is find items that have sold in your region, but are not seeded. Buy these items (though setting up your own buy orders if you can) normally in a different region and set them up as sell orders for a descent profit.


Another example of what you can do. check your region for a specific item that has no sell orders setup (or are not 10X the price). Look at the average sale/buy price in the region. Next go onto eve-central.com and look up how much the item is being sold for, and where. Then its a simple mater of flying out and buying up the item, and then seeding it in the new region.

The key here is to try to buy items though setting up your own buy orders up, and then selling them though your own sell orders. it takes time.
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#17 - 2012-11-08 10:25:35 UTC
The problem I see here is not the OP's competence and/or time availability to make the trades, its the inability of just about every one posting here to identify the real problem.

He/She came to the forums, obviously in need of some basic insight from the experienced traders, who have, in a way, eaten the dog on the subject who are, themselves repeating the same exact thing over and over and over, buy low sell high with a sugar coated nutsack filled with random trolling or some numbers completely irreverent to the subject.

1.
A trade route, is not only about hauling, its a very braud definition, but in short, its most related to a Niche, or some kind of unique strategy that you create/evolve, anything that makes more then 1 ISK in any given amount of time, is considered a trade route, which may or may not require transportation.

As you move from one trade route to another, the goal is to make each one more profitable with less time invested to make each ISK, (your ultimate goals may vary) billions per hour perhaps sounds better, but billions is currently not the point im trying to make.

Explore everything, most people start from outright penny wars against each other, focus on a handful of items, establish yourself and seek out more profitable trades/trade routes.

as you find yourself focusing on a single 1 dimensional strategy, you will begin to form a trade route, acquiring the good or goods of a particular niche from all over eve to try and make more and more ISK per hour with as little time invested, this is when the trade route begins to really start looking like all those websites describe.

You can go into scamming, the path leads to the same ending, where you eventually form a complicated mesh of whatever system it is that you end up developing turns into a complicated, yet very lucrative trade route.

For example, my personal Niche, was once ships, I would make them, buy them right in the trade hubs, different stations and different regions and then sell them wherever I felt like depending on the actual time I could devote to trading in eve considering real life responsibilities.

2.
Google has become a stagnant cesspool of repetitive bullshit people spew at each other across the entire spectrum of human knowledge, most of it is just people repeating what they heard and what they think, its perfectly on topic but almost always fails to answer in depth information (in a timely manor) as we all would expect such a refined search engine to answer for us, the right answer takes time, or usually costly expertise, sometimes you really do get lucky, be it here or by using the "Im feeling lucky" search method through google search.

3.
This is not something some one should teach you step by step, this is the traders path you must undertake on your own, its very interesting, remember, most importantly have fun doing whatever it is that you do here in eve, be yourself.
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#18 - 2012-11-08 12:53:33 UTC
Selene D'Celeste wrote:
Akita T wrote:
Words

I haven't been here in months. Glad you're still around, doing your thing!

Quite infrequently. But yeah, technically still around Blink
Barakach
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-11-08 13:40:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Barakach
Prince Volcae wrote:
I dont see how station trading work?


Station trading is filled with a lot of competition. You will rarely find an "Easy" trade. You need to figure out what the low will be and what the high will be. You can't look at just the current high-buy and low-sell.

If you ever actually watch prices of almost any item, you will see them swing all over the place, day-to-day and week-to-week. In the morning you may see a buy of 1.0m and a sell of 1.01m and think "I can't make any money on that margin, but then later that day the buy is 1.1m and the sell is 1.15m. Suddenly your margin went from 0.01m to 0.15m

That's station trading in a nut-shell.

P.S. Watch broker's fees and sales tax
Katileen
Slow Orbital Decay
#20 - 2012-11-08 14:33:38 UTC
There are many Station Trading Tutorials on YouTube.

Also Eve University has a nice selection of Audio and Written Material on the subject.

http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/EVE_University_Class_Library#Trading

It can be a fun profession, but cut-throat at times.
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