Player Features and Ideas Discussion

This has long been a pet idea of mine. It is constantly evolving, but the main idea is the same: Juggernauts are to Battleships what Battlecruisers are to Cruisers.

There are two flavors of Juggernauts in planning:

Exit Level Sub Capitals and Entry Level Capitals.

Each Race would have a two 'tier' 1 Juggernauts, one for each role.

Amarr: Pantheon and Executor

Caldari: Revenant and Shrike

Gallente: Sumeris and Wendigo

Minmatar: Jörmungandr and Angrboda

The Pantheon, Shrike, Wendigo, and Jörmungandr are the Sub Capitals. They take a lot of design cues from the Battleships of each race. Each has two Role Bonuses and Several Special Bonuses:

Role
Pantheon: 200% Capital Energy Turret Damage and 100% Cruise/Torpedo Damage
Shrike: 200% Citadel Cruise/Torpedo Damage and 100% Large Hybrid Turret Damage
Wendigo: 200% Capital Hybrid Turret Damage and 100% Large Hybrid Damage
Jörmungandr: 200% Capital Projectile Turret Damage and 100% Cruise/Torpedo Damage

Special
Pantheon: 95% Capital Energy Turret Powergrid need, 50% Capital Energy Turret CPU Need, and 50% Capital Energy Turret Cap Use
Shrike: 95% Citadel Launcher Powergrid Need, 50% Citadel Launcher CPU Need, and 50% Citadel Explosion Velocity
Wendigo: 95% Capital Hybrid Turret Powergrid Need, 50% Capital Hybrid Turret CPU Need, 100% Heavy, Medium, and Light Drone Damage and Hitpoints.
Jörmungandr: 95% Capital Projectile Turret Powergrid Need, 50% Capital Projectile Turret CPU Need, and 50% Capital Projectile Turret Tracking

Ship Skill Bonuses
Pantheon: 5% Capital Energy Turret RoF and 5% Cruise/Torpedo Launcher RoF
Shrike: 5% Citadel Launcher RoF and 10% Large Hybrid Turret Optimal
Wendigo: 5% Capital Hybrid Turret Damage and 5% Large Hybrid Turret Damage
Jörmungandr: 5% Capital Projectile Turret RoF and 5% Cruise/Torpedo RoF

Each Sub Capital Juggernaut can fit two Capital Ship Weapons and four Large Weapons with two utility high slots. Each of them has a different layout for mid and low slots, but they only have eight total:

Pantheon: 3 Mid, 5 Low
Shrike: 5 Mid, 3 Low
Wendigo: 4 Mid, 4 Low
Jörmungandr: 4 Mid, 4 Low

The purpose is to keep these ships from being uber tanks when compared to Battleships.

The Entry Level Capital Juggernauts have a different approach to the same principle, they are very tanky, but not ultra ganky.

The Executor, Revenant, Sumeris, and Angrboda all have jump drives and the same restrictions as all Carriers, Dreads, and Supers. The difference is, none of them can use Capital Weapons. They can fit other capital modules.

Executor: 5% Large Energy Turret Damage and 7.5% Large Energy Turret Optimal
Revenent: 10% Large Hybrid Turret Optimal and 5% Large Hybrid turret Damage
Sumeris: 5% Large Hybrid Turret Damage and 5% Large Hybrid Turret Falloff
Angrboda: 5% Large Projectile Turret Damage and 5% Large Projectile RoF

While they do not have tank bonuses, they do have a large number of slots, a total of eleven spread among mid and low:

Executor: 4 Mid, 7 Low
Revenent: 7 Mid, 4 Low
Sumeris: 5 Mid, 6 Low
Angrboda: 6 Mid, 5 Low

They also have hp roughly equal to Carriers, but only about 40% of the fittings. Mineral values of the Pantheon, Shrike, Wendigo, and Jörmungandr should be about 200% of a Tier 3 BS. While the Executor, Revenant, Sumeris, and Angrboda should be about a third the cost of a Dreadnought.

I'm mostly just conceptualizing since CCP tends to not like overly specific ideas. So don't trip about that, I can still answer any question or address any concern.

Skills would be a new Juggernaut Skill. It would require Advanced Space Ship Command I, Racial BS 3 for the Pantheon, Shrike, Wendigo, and Jörmungandr. ASSC V and Capital Ships I is required for the Executor, Revenant, Sumeris, and Angrboda.

TLDR: Two new ship classes: 'Flagships' and 'Nub Capitals'

Well that particular class of ships will be quite large, easily double or more the side of BSes.

i agree strongly with this idea partially because once you hit BS sized ships. your done. the jump to caps is too big for most casual players and current cap ships are very niche (except for carriers insane logi ability). there needs to be something after BS before Caps usable in high sec if CCP wants to continue adding "end game" content for carebares to grind. without it starting to need 40+ people. Or just outright adding endgame raids where you need 40+ people to try to grind through waves of mobs to acheive goals.

once you can fit a BS in high sec its basically go run incursions or go to low sec to make isk (if you trained combat only). and with incursions being way less risk and way more isk/hour there needs to be something else that would require more tanky ships to fight things other then incursions.

a ship that can act as a stepping stone from BS to Caps can benefit a lot of players. especially if one of the new ships was a sub cap carrier/logi as there is no logi after cruiser and before carriers.

just saying.

because of the capital guns.
i agree that there needs to be a stepping stone between BS's and caps, not only for dreadnaught, but for carriers as well.

But capital sized modules on a sub-cap ship is not the way to go, there's a reason why they disabled subcaps from fitting them in the first place (some ship could fit them with a lot of fitting modules)

Meaning that they obsolete them. So the net sum of your idea is to require new-ish players to train for many months more before they are able to take part in large-scale combat in a fleet "battleship". Nice one.

That is how CCP operates. Battlecruisers changed the face of pvp more than any other ship type. Including capitals.

I really dont see the need for a new class of ship TBH.I think we can achive simalar results with a rejigging balancing of Maurader class ships.Perhaps by letting them carry a limted number of cap turrets suplemented by launcher hardpoints or larger drone bays for the smaller ship threats.Of course it would mean them having fewer turret high slots to achive this ,but imo its alot better solution than introducing a whole new class of ship.You would still of course have to train the cap weapons skills ,but if your going to do them anyway for dreadnoughts and carriers ect,.Having Mauraders with cap armament would be a halfway house solution,and certinally bring more firepower to hig sec It would also mean that the other Maurader stats and bonuses can remain basically unchanged ,and offer a threat to capital ships in 0.0 space,espically if allowed to carry bombs and bomb launchers designed for use against capital ships.Might even see the end of blob warfare in the long run .But have doughts about that lol.

It is supposed to be a bit like what would happen if you took the Tier 3 BCs and made Dread babies with them. Split duo tier weapons and more limited support slots.




I can agree that the 200% bonus is a bit much, I intended for the XL weapons on these to be more shock and alpha than viable for sustained DPS. But perhaps it should be a RoF bonus instead. Maybe in the realm of 75% RoF bonus.

Anyway, I think at least one ship class should be designed for more than one class of weapon.

Feel free to come up with another name then.

That was partially the reason for fitting XL weapons on these hulls, to give us an option for taking out a high sec tower rather than boring fifty players to death.

The XL weapons on the Juggernauts should probably even get the Titan XL Buff/Nerf:

Massive Damage buff, but nerfed vs sub caps.

Let their Large weapons be for the sub caps they will no doubt have to fight.

I'll post a revision after work.