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Anybody else tried the new X-Com: Enemy Unknown?

Author
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#41 - 2012-10-26 15:48:22 UTC
Told myself i wasn't going to argue further because you guys seem hell bent on not liking it, but i still don't get what you mean by it lacking replayability. The original was linear, too, like i already pointed out, and people still found lots of reason to replay it. I'm not sure what you expected. If this one didn't inspire you as much as the original, it's probably just because you're older and more jaded. When i was a child i was more excited about Super Mario World than i ever was about Skyrim now, but i wouldn't hold that against Skyrim.

I do agree on very minor things you've mentioned like not being able to intercept alien craft before they land for things, but you're being overly emotional by saying they ruin everything.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi

Coral Theisman
Space Ants
Phoenixx Alliance
#42 - 2012-10-27 15:50:44 UTC
In fact, I've stopped playing EVE to play XCOM (obviously not forever Lol ). I really love original X-Com, but I am not mindless zombified fanboi who'd spit on anything that is not 100% copy of the original.

Changes I like:
- I don't have to buy ammo for my rifles at the beginning - wow, really terrible, I don't have to micromanage every single bullet anymore, is that really something bad? It's not Sims, damn.
- I have only two actions - actually brilliant idea, now the game is more tactical than minmaxing points, and I have to think a lot before I send my soldiers into those dark corners.

Changes I dislike:
- Only one base. Nooo :( I loved to build specialized bases over the Earth (like everyone else I guess).

I was really worried about the game, especially since I've played that wannabe JA: Back In , but now I can say that I am definitely happy with XCOM 2012.

Also, for those crying that certain weapons are better than others: are you gonna say that you've ever entered Cydonia with something different than flying suit, laser rifles and Avenger? (yes, plasma rifles for those who loved to micromanage plasma rifle clips).
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#43 - 2012-10-27 17:03:23 UTC
Coral Theisman wrote:
In fact, I've stopped playing EVE to play XCOM (obviously not forever Lol ). I really love original X-Com, but I am not mindless zombified fanboi who'd spit on anything that is not 100% copy of the original.

Changes I like:
- I don't have to buy ammo for my rifles at the beginning - wow, really terrible, I don't have to micromanage every single bullet anymore, is that really something bad? It's not Sims, damn.
- I have only two actions - actually brilliant idea, now the game is more tactical than minmaxing points, and I have to think a lot before I send my soldiers into those dark corners.

Changes I dislike:
- Only one base. Nooo :( I loved to build specialized bases over the Earth (like everyone else I guess).

I was really worried about the game, especially since I've played that wannabe JA: Back In , but now I can say that I am definitely happy with XCOM 2012.

Also, for those crying that certain weapons are better than others: are you gonna say that you've ever entered Cydonia with something different than flying suit, laser rifles and Avenger? (yes, plasma rifles for those who loved to micromanage plasma rifle clips).


Why do you play EVE? You have to micromanage every bullet here too. Why not play a game where you have a set amount of bullets every time you undock or spawn no matter how you plan to play? I don't think removing such things is necessarily bad in itself, but it changes how the game plays. Logistics and manufacturing were critical parts of the old game and I liked it. It also provided a strong reason to try and salvage and capture things as intacts as possible because your fighting capability was so reliant on elerium. It brings new options and gameplay choices to the table and creates situations, that can't possibly arise in the new game.

Similar with the action points. In some ways you can change it to two actions without issues. It reminds me of how some current tabletop RPGs work and it works fine. That is also how many standard moves went in the old game and it removes the need to count actionpoints. The problem is that it loses granularity, misses the opportunity to improve the old AP system and the good sides could be achieved in other ways.

The need to count APs could have been removed by making the computer count them. Just colorcode the tiles to show where you can still move and show change to that area when you hover the cursor over an action. You've just eliminated the need to count APs and kept them in game. An example of improving on that is allowing the player to invest extra AP to actions in order to increase the chances of success. You took more time to aim, your shot is more accurate. It makes sense and gives the player more control over how he can play, instead of trying to shoehorn everything to the same mold.

I'm not saying the game is bad because the alterations they've made, but they've simplified the experience to the point, that it's not the game I'm looking for. If it were named any other than X-com, I wouldn't have even bother with it at all. I'm glad that some players enjoy it though. It shows there is still demand for these types of games and that increases the likelyhood of someone producing something that caters more to my taste.

PS. Are you telling me you didn't raid Cydonia with blaster launchers and blow everything that moved(and didn't move) to pieces with them? Such things were possible, since you could carry the ammo to do it. Also, laser rifles were crap at end game. The no need for ammo is nice in the early game, but it's inferior in every way to heavy plasma by a significant margin(more accurate with almost double damage) and most aliens carry plasma, so there is no excuse not to use them. Using lasers in X-com after the start is like doing PvP in EVE on a cap stable setup. You can do it, but it has fail written all over it.
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#44 - 2012-10-27 21:57:41 UTC
Bane Necran wrote:
Told myself i wasn't going to argue further because you guys seem hell bent on not liking it, but i still don't get what you mean by it lacking replayability.

The small squad size, the limited gear count per person, and the lack of finely-spendable TUs drastically reduces tactical options, ESPECIALLY if you further reduce the gun selection via class random assignment, and you quickly fall into a familiar rote on almost all missions.
The skills feel more like a gimmick than anything else, and the fact the "hard to kill aliens" part usually comes from MISSING THE SHOT instead of dealing too little damage with the weapons you do have does not help one little bit either.

You could replay almost the same mission (basically same enemies, vaguely different map) dozens of times even with the same people at the same experience levels and same overall gear on hand, since the combinations of things you COULD do were fairly extensive (even just shuffling the gear around to different people could change the mission flow significantly early on, and a lot more options sprung up if you also changed the equipment loadout) and the map FELT fairly large (even if it wasn't that much larger at times).
In fact, the earlier missions where you were strapped for gear and your guys were total newbies were amongst the more fun ones (even if more than half your team died), and as soon as you clearly had enough of the "best gear" for everybody (including resources for the consumables you would not generally loot enough of) it started being slightly less fun (not by a lot, but still).

You did HUNDREDS of missions of almost the exact same type and still you didn't really get bored REGARDLESS of difficulty level.

In the new one however, I played roughly 30 missions of at least 5 types (the standard UFO down one being more or less the same as the abduction mission, the terror mission target, the base assault more or less similar to the terror ship raiding and the final ship raiding, the bomb disabling, and rescue the VIP), but I already got bored of them mid-way though already.


Bottom line, it's not as fun as the old one, gameplay-wise, and the visual appeal is nowhere near sufficient to make up for it.
The old one was a game of chess, the new one is 3D 4x4x4 tic-tac-toe.
You can keep playing chess matches for a very long time, but you get pretty tired of even that fancy version of tic-tac-toe very soon.
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#45 - 2012-10-27 22:55:06 UTC
I find the smaller squad size scales perfectly with the smaller maps. And don't really miss spending 20 minutes at the end of each match scouring a large map for the last alien who is hiding somewhere. If we still had to do that, then by all means i'd miss having less people to scour with.

Don't find the change with TU's to be significant. Everyone used to save time for reaction shots, and now it's done automatically. In a way, TUs are still there, and you just can't see the numbers anymore. Also, various classes now have particular reaction shots and passives that compliment their role in the group, which i find only increases tactical options. I like groups where everyone has unique roles and abilities, and find it's more dynamic that way. Missing the shot was always the big killer in the original too, and i consider that to be something they carried over well, so i don't find much change there, but your mileage may vary.

And i still don't get the gear thing. I mean, the weapons themselves and the order they're researched is IDENTICAL to the original. You may have lost ammo clips, and the variety of rocket launchers and rockets, but there is even more gear in general, which makes up for it i find. I do think it wouldn't have been very hard for them to have at least one upgrade to the standard rocket launcher, though. That left me a little disappointed. I think i also mentioned this already, and i do miss being able to pick things up from fallen guys, but it's not a game breaker to me.

People said the fights in the original were repetitive too, even if there were slightly more environs to fight in, and i don't see how shuffling gear around helped that much, but it's really just personal choice i guess. I still find the early missions with green soldiers to be the most memorable in this.

I also don't really find myself as excited about playing it as i was with the original. After a couple playthroughs i feel i'm done until significant content is added. But like i already made reference to, this is just because i'm older and more jaded. And i know this because NO game captivates me like they did when i was younger. I could be enthralled with the most basic things back then, now all the awesomeness in the world is barely enough to keep my attention.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#46 - 2012-10-27 23:06:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Akita T
There's no kneeling (for better accuracy) nor different shot types (aimed vs snap, and of course also auto).
You can't do 6 shots (2 three-shot autofires) per round at all, nor 2 regular shots (with exception of two classes with the proper skills) nor fire THEN move (with the exception of one class with the proper skill).
You can't pack your team full of 50+ grenades and/or high explosives and/or rockets either.
Most of the other issues with items that were removed, I've already tackled in a previous post, and why their removal (for a few of them) WAS a big deal. As for the extra gear, it really doesn't feel like actual gear at all (those that are allowed for or classes) or the limitations placed on it are annoying as hell (i.e. only class X can use it even remotely efficiently but also only AFTER bothering with the appropriate skills).

I'll keep saying it again, no, it's not nostalgia, the older game just was THAT much better, in spite of the bugs that are not fixed even this day (including fan patches) and in spite of the seriously dated graphics.
Today, overall, it's STILL more fun to play the old one rather than this new one.
When that happens, the remake has FAILED in my opinion, even if it's an ok game all by itself (i.e. ignoring the existence of the old one for that particular assessment).
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#47 - 2012-11-01 17:48:29 UTC
The notoriously critical Yahtzee Croshaw weighs in on X-Com.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#48 - 2012-11-01 18:01:03 UTC
Shockingly, he liked it. Then again, he called the old game's interface complicated (what? did he actually play it ? I have a feeling that he didn't do that very much, if at all) and he got dead bored with EVE. So, eh. Same story, if you didn't play and replay the old one, the new one is good, it's just bad in comparison to what it could have been.
Elias Greyhand
#49 - 2012-11-01 18:15:49 UTC
Since reading the comments in this thread, I haven't touched it.

"That which is done cannot be undone. But it can be avenged."

MinefieldS
1 Sick Duck Standss on something
#50 - 2012-11-01 20:10:22 UTC
Bane Necran wrote:
Told myself i wasn't going to argue further because you guys seem hell bent on not liking it, but i still don't get what you mean by it lacking replayability. The original was linear, too, like i already pointed out, and people still found lots of reason to replay it. I'm not sure what you expected. If this one didn't inspire you as much as the original, it's probably just because you're older and more jaded. When i was a child i was more excited about Super Mario World than i ever was about Skyrim now, but i wouldn't hold that against Skyrim.

I do agree on very minor things you've mentioned like not being able to intercept alien craft before they land for things, but you're being overly emotional by saying they ruin everything.

The AI is S.H.I.V. That's why. It's supposed to be a strategy game, not a scripted turn-based Mass Effect 3 in which you **** dumb defenseless aliens on so-called "impossible" difficulty.
The original was linear? What do you mean by that? Battleships and alien bases were definitely NOT linear corridor maps, made for console owners.



Bart Starr
Aggressive Structural Steel Expediting Services
#51 - 2012-11-02 09:42:13 UTC
I mowed a lot of lawns to buy the original Xcom for the IBM back in 1994. Still have the box and jewel case.

I was excited to see the remake, but pretty disappointed with the result. Pretty, but very dumbed down.
I blame consoles and the people who buy them.

Akita's posts even reminded me of elements of the game that I'd forgotten....

But what struck me most was how the old game felt much more dynamic.

UFOs were spawned, and flying all around the globe. Depending on your radar coverage, you may or may not see them.
Different UFOs of many specialized classes assigned to different missions.

If you see them, you may intercept them - shoot them down over the water, shoot them down over land, which rewarded you with an easier (though smashed up) conquest....
You could let them land, and attempt to take an undamaged UFO...

Or, you can let them go about their missions - abductions, terror, and so on, spawning other types of mission.

This new XCOM doesn't do this at all....it feels like its just assigning you a random mission every few days.

Also, it feels very constrained in your performance.....
In the old XCOM you could afford to fail plenty of missions - even losing entire squads of rookies, and still be in the game.
Even the occasional terror mission - especially when those bastards turn the entire population of civilians into zombies.

On new Xcom Classic, the way panic is handled - failure is almost not an option, as you would end up with a fail cascade of countries leaving the project, given you can only stop one abduction mission at a time.

Game just feels linear, simplified and kind of 'fake'.
I'd have been thrilled with updated graphics slapped on the old formula. We didn't get that, and in this age of the market dominated by 14 year olds on consoles, I doubt we ever will again.

Its a shame, because I wasn't really much older than 14 when I was entranced by the original....


Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#52 - 2012-11-04 09:15:12 UTC
Bart Starr wrote:
Its a shame, because I wasn't really much older than 14 when I was entranced by the original....

17 myself back then, but I think I was 18 when I first actually played it.
Tinja Soikutsu
Perkone
Caldari State
#53 - 2012-11-04 11:25:32 UTC
I've really enjoyed my time playing... having finished yet because I got completely screwed by the 'final door' but and got pissed off enough to restart.

Is it like the originals? No.

Is this a bad thing? No.

Does it feel like the originals? Yes.

Is this a good things? Yes.

Let me put the reason why I like this game into one simple statement. I Fing love the originals games, I just can't Fing PLAY them. They've taken the feel and the story of X-Com, gotten to the core of what the game was about, and stripped away all the uselessly overly-complicated and overly-complex BS and added some new tactics and depth.

It's the one problem I have with people's reaction to going back to old games and series and that's people taking a too literal "Well the original did this, and this doesn't, SO IT'S A HORRIBLE GAME!!!" view and simply don't give the new game a chance to stand on its own merits.

This is a re-imagining of the classic, not the classic done up in fancy graphics, and I for one say THANK **** FOR THAT!
Xenuria
#54 - 2012-11-05 04:21:59 UTC
Bad graphics...
Tinja Soikutsu
Perkone
Caldari State
#55 - 2012-11-05 05:01:03 UTC
Xenuria wrote:
Bad graphics...

... seriously? that's all you have to say?

FFS...
Louis deGuerre
The Dark Tribe
#56 - 2012-11-05 10:43:08 UTC
Elias Greyhand wrote:
Since reading the comments in this thread, I haven't touched it.


Your loss. It is one of the most fun games released this year. Even Akita T admits that between the pages of hate and rage P
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#57 - 2012-11-05 12:10:55 UTC
Louis deGuerre wrote:
Elias Greyhand wrote:
Since reading the comments in this thread, I haven't touched it.

Your loss. It is one of the most fun games released this year. Even Akita T admits that between the pages of hate and rage P

Admitting repeatedly and frequently, actually Lol

And it's not so much hate and rage but, well, you know, disappointment at the wasted potential for greatness and a (failed) possible timeless classic.
Ugh
MinefieldS
1 Sick Duck Standss on something
#58 - 2012-11-05 20:43:56 UTC
Xenuria wrote:
Bad graphics...

0/10
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2012-11-22 11:45:59 UTC
it's 30% off on steam right not

bought it this morning, i kinda like it so far, but it suffers heavily from being consolified
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#60 - 2012-11-30 03:39:31 UTC
so someone named Julian Gollop had this to say about the new xcom

"I think Firaxis has done a great job… The game is addictive and absorbing, not to mention quite challenging on the classic difficulty setting."

Gilbaron wrote:
it's 30% off on steam right not

bought it this morning, i kinda like it so far, but it suffers heavily from being consolified


go check out the mods!

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg