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About Carriers--Thanatos used much?
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Ark Anhammar
GO' R0V
Pandemic Horde
#1 - 2012-10-27 18:58:16 UTC
Hello pilots! I have been poking around looking at carriers as a long term skill train, and I know Archons are king of triage carriers atm. I'm curious, though, are Thanatoses used much?

I spoke with some WH guys who said they only use Archons, but I was curious about the Thanatos. Not necesarily for triage, because I know the Archon does that way better, but for anywhere, really--0.0 warfare, blobs, etc.

I think I'd like to fly Gallente caps (Moros ftw!), and I know the Thanatos is the Gal carrier.

Any info would be great! I figured you guys who've been out there for a while are in the know more than me :)
Azock
Backwater Redux
Tactical Narcotics Team
#2 - 2012-10-27 19:10:01 UTC
Ark Anhammar wrote:
Hello pilots! I have been poking around looking at carriers as a long term skill train, and I know Archons are king of triage carriers atm. I'm curious, though, are Thanatoses used much?

I spoke with some WH guys who said they only use Archons, but I was curious about the Thanatos. Not necesarily for triage, because I know the Archon does that way better, but for anywhere, really--0.0 warfare, blobs, etc.

I think I'd like to fly Gallente caps (Moros ftw!), and I know the Thanatos is the Gal carrier.

Any info would be great! I figured you guys who've been out there for a while are in the know more than me :)



Yes, Thanatos are used almost as much as Archons. They aren't considered damn near useless like the Nid/Chimera in fleet fights, etc. Also the Moros is awesome.
Ark Anhammar
GO' R0V
Pandemic Horde
#3 - 2012-10-27 19:36:11 UTC
Azock wrote:
Yes, Thanatos are used almost as much as Archons. They aren't considered damn near useless like the Nid/Chimera in fleet fights, etc. Also the Moros is awesome.

Oh really?? Awesome! I was hoping Thannies were used, since I'm very interested in flying one. I had sort of hit a wall with people just saying "Archon Archon Archon" which left no room for "Thanatos Thanatos Thanatos" lol
Azock
Backwater Redux
Tactical Narcotics Team
#4 - 2012-10-27 20:59:46 UTC
If you could get into the Archon I would definitely advise it but the Thanny is arguably the second best carrier, so you will be fine.
Nalha Saldana
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-10-27 21:49:16 UTC
The arcons resist bonus and energy transfers generally makes it way superior.

The thanatos on the other hand is also a armor carrier which makes it better then the other 2 but it does lack a bit.
It can use shield reps so the ability to rep POSes or other structures in shield reinforce is nice if you're into that stuff.
Soon Shin
Scarlet Weather Rhapsody
#6 - 2012-10-27 22:35:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Soon Shin
Here's what I think:

Archon>>Thanatos>Chimera>>>>>>Nid.

Archon - energy transfer and resist bonus make it a superior fleet carrier for triage and nontriage compared to Thanatos. The DPS for fighters are as useful as having a drone damage bonus on a logistics ship. Has superior capacitor size and armor hp than the Thanatos to go along with it. You're not too far from the Rev which is the 2nd best dread.

Thanatos - can do armor RR and tank, (don't try to shield RR and tank it, doesn't have enough CPU), it is not plagued with the fitting issues that the Chimera and Nid has. The fighter bonus doesn't really help as much since carriers are meant to be logistic ships not dps ships.

Chimera - A shield counterpart to the Archon, but fails due to the lack of CPU that makes it hard to fit until you go fairly pimp.(archon can fit using Tech 2 and Tech 1, Chimera needs Meta 2 Capital modules and faction/deadspace mods to fit at all.) Smaller capacitor buffer, inferior cap recharge to archon when fitted(Shield tank uses more Cap/s than armor tank). Shield tanking does not work well for capital scale compared to armor.

Nid - Fitting fail. You can't armor tank and RR or Shield tank and RR. You have to fit RR for one type then switch for local tanking. So you have a Shield RR and Armor local tank or vice versa. Has the weakest capacitor buffer of all carriers and ehp. Suited only for POS and afterbattle repping.
Tallianna Avenkarde
Pyre of Gods
#7 - 2012-10-28 04:30:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Tallianna Avenkarde
Chimera actually makes a better slowcat/"pantheon" carrier then the archon.

3 Chimeras in slowcat configuration can tank ~29720 dps omni whereas an Archon in the same configuration tanks ~23500. And that scales with more carriers on the field.

Triage fitting a carrier does get a little tight, but meta Capital shield transfers aren't that expensive considering the price of the hull these days.

The only reason that armour carriers are preferred is due to the prevalence of them due to the old shields not taking into account skills and fittings when jumping into system, so 12 months ago hen a shield carrier jumped into system it used to have about ~60% of its shields to recharge before it could enter combat. This lead to more armour capitals to bu purchased, and leaves us with todays preferrence for armour capitals.

Thanatos has a role though, it is the ratting carrier of choice by nullsecs super bears ;)

Nhidhogger is the carrier of choice for structure repping.

So in order of ACTUAL usefullness

Chimera>Archon>Nhidhogger>>>>>>>>>Thanatos

And a sudden plunge in the sullen swell. Ten fathoms deep on the road to hell.
Seetesh
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-10-28 09:05:42 UTC
Tallianna Avenkarde wrote:
Chimera actually makes a better slowcat/"pantheon" carrier then the archon.

3 Chimeras in slowcat configuration can tank ~29720 dps omni whereas an Archon in the same configuration tanks ~23500. And that scales with more carriers on the field.

Triage fitting a carrier does get a little tight, but meta Capital shield transfers aren't that expensive considering the price of the hull these days.

The only reason that armour carriers are preferred is due to the prevalence of them due to the old shields not taking into account skills and fittings when jumping into system, so 12 months ago hen a shield carrier jumped into system it used to have about ~60% of its shields to recharge before it could enter combat. This lead to more armour capitals to bu purchased, and leaves us with todays preferrence for armour capitals.

Thanatos has a role though, it is the ratting carrier of choice by nullsecs super bears ;)

Nhidhogger is the carrier of choice for structure repping.

So in order of ACTUAL usefullness

Chimera>Archon>Nhidhogger>>>>>>>>>Thanatos



I find myself agreeing with this, the Chimera and the Archon are most useful carriers in a fleet engagement; given the changes to shields and the way leadership skills are applied now the Chimera is back on par.
Screenlag
Armaggedon Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
#9 - 2012-10-28 10:24:09 UTC
The Chimera still needs to have it's CPU boosted. The thanny works well when running sites, but now with the Drone amps I guess any carrier will do, because you'll never use fighters in a site again.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-10-28 12:12:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Miton
Here's the deal:
If you want the best carrier, train archon.
If you want the best dread, train moros.

thanny is used in null in fleets (and for ratting by morons). i guess it also has the advantage of being able to do both shield and armour. if you plan of flying a carrier in a WH, dont even consider anything other than an archon unless youre in a pulsar, in which case chimera.

There is no Bob.

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Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#11 - 2012-10-31 21:56:15 UTC
Much as I love the thanny it doesn't even come close to an archon for armor triage - you need to throw ~16bn ISK give or take to match a fairly standard archon fit (and still don't have the energy RR range bonus). Cheaper fit will do for every-day useage tho and has its place.
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#12 - 2012-11-01 12:48:46 UTC
Screenlag wrote:
The Chimera still needs to have it's CPU boosted. The thanny works well when running sites, but now with the Drone amps I guess any carrier will do, because you'll never use fighters in a site again.


When dealing with capitals you should be using deadspace mods, so its CPU is fine. Unless you wanna fit drone controls... which is pointless.
Arazel Chainfire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-11-01 17:54:54 UTC
Maeltstome wrote:
Screenlag wrote:
The Chimera still needs to have it's CPU boosted. The thanny works well when running sites, but now with the Drone amps I guess any carrier will do, because you'll never use fighters in a site again.


When dealing with capitals you should be using deadspace mods, so its CPU is fine. Unless you wanna fit drone controls... which is pointless.


Erm... you must not use your capitals in larger fleets, when there are things like supers and titans on the field.

There is no reason whatsoever to deadspace bling a slowcat carrier. It doesn't significantly improve your survivability, and just makes it even more painful when you inevitably loose it. Now, faction mods (like IN EANM's and such) are perfectly acceptible, as the provide a significant improvement for a modest increase in cost, but unless you are talking some of the really cheap deadspace stuff which btw barely improve the survivability of the carrier anyways, you are just throwing your isk away.

Similarly, there is no real need to bling a triage carrier when it doesn't improve its survivability accordingly. Again, IN EANM, great. Deadspace hardeners - waste of isk. The extra % or 2 isn't going to save you except in very rare instances, and those instances don't happen often enough to make that a worthwhile investment. You will either have enough tank/cap/etc. to survive, or the deadspace is going to give you an extra 10s before you die, in a much more expensive ball of fire.

The only exception is WH space, because you should be making enough isk there that some deadspace bling doesn't affect your wallet, and you never have to worry about being dropped by supers/titans.

-Arazel
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#14 - 2012-11-01 19:44:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
Maeltstome wrote:
Screenlag wrote:
The Chimera still needs to have it's CPU boosted. The thanny works well when running sites, but now with the Drone amps I guess any carrier will do, because you'll never use fighters in a site again.


When dealing with capitals you should be using deadspace mods, so its CPU is fine. Unless you wanna fit drone controls... which is pointless.


Kinda what the above poster said in reply - but it does suck that the chimera is just short of fitting for a mostly T2 fit that does whats required of it fine and you have to throw a fair amount of ISK at it to make it all fit which then either matches or goes way beyond requirements at quite a cost over the T2 fit would be.

Personally I'm of the opinion that carriers are something you should be pimping but the reality is the game doesn't play out like that especially in nullsec which is where a large proportion of carrier useage is based. One of the things I like about wormhole space you can throw a bit of ISK on a carrier without having to worry about it getting rofl blapped if you actually use it (unless your the unlucky carrier pilot in a C5/6 magnetar under fire from dreads).
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#15 - 2012-11-02 03:19:10 UTC  |  Edited by: SmilingVagrant
Maeltstome wrote:
Screenlag wrote:
The Chimera still needs to have it's CPU boosted. The thanny works well when running sites, but now with the Drone amps I guess any carrier will do, because you'll never use fighters in a site again.


When dealing with capitals you should be using deadspace mods, so its CPU is fine. Unless you wanna fit drone controls... which is pointless.


Why in gods name would you use deadspace mods on something that any small gang can kill in minutes and that is super vulnerable to tackle?

EDIT: I mean for all of the uses you can put a carrier to, deadspace really doesn't add any utility.

It's not going to make a triage or suicide triage much better, a cap battery carrier isn't going to be super shiny, and in a combat carrier (Slowcat, Das Boot 2.0) it's just going to be an expensive way to die.