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Will the new bounty system save EvE?
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Kenneth O'Hara
Sebiestor Tribe
#81 - 2012-11-01 17:39:07 UTC
Casirio wrote:
Lipbite wrote:
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
I just want to point out that you are still not going to be able to place bonties on people with a high sec rating



I've added bounty on pilots with 5.0 sec standing on Duality few minutes ago. Also on their corps.


Quote:
•Bounties can now be placed from anywhere in the game, not just the Bounty Office in stations. Bounties on the same character go into a joint pool, same as now. The minimum ISK amount for placing a bounty is increased from 5k to 100k. Also, bounties can now be placed on anyone, we’re removing the -1 security standing requirement currently in the bounty system.

I can't read the devblogs at work. I only skimmed over the little brochure website at home and not the actual blog. Thank you for shedding some light on this for I would have been completely lost with out you guys.

... yes, that was sarcasm.

Bring Saede Riordan back!! Never Forget! _"__Operation Godzilla Smacks Zeus"  ~__Graygor _
Speedkermit Damo
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#82 - 2012-11-01 17:40:45 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
I think it's possible that the new bounty system could be the saviour of EvE.

The two main complaints about high-sec right now are;
1. Suicide ganking isn't profitable enough for the effort.
2. High-sec players get too much isk for too little reward.

A further complaint is that the game has too few ISK sinks.

With the new bounty system, we will be able to place bounties of any amount on anyone, for any reason. We can force people to participate in PvP even if they pretend they don't want to. We can make ganking profitable. Even if the profits will be small (20m bounty from a Mackinaw according to Petrus Blackshell in this thread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2067812#post2067812 ), it might be worth it just for the tears, plus loot and salvage.

Essentially, for every 20m ISK bounty you place on a miner, that miner will lose 200m isk when he is ganked. This makes it seem like high-sec mining is going to become quite a risky business and result in a lot of carebears losing a lot of ISK to gankers who just want to see them QQ.

So where does the ISK sink part come in? Well, the bounty system itself is an ISK sink. As people keep piling bounties on the miners, the bounties get higher and higher. A miner with a 200m bounty is good for 10 ganks, and what happens when a carebear miner is ganked too many times? He quits EvE, taking his bounty with him.

Every time a carebear quits EvE, they are removing ISK from the economy, thus creating the ISK sink the game needs.

It seems to me that with the new bounty system, we can save EvE by forcing players to quit with relentless ganking. The higher the bounties, the more likely they are to quit and remove those high bounties from the economy when they do.

This is why I think the new bounty system, with the proper player initiative, could save EvE. Alternatively, it could also lead to the fiery death of EvE.


How exactly is griefing players until they unsub going to "save" EVE?

Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.
NARDAC
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#83 - 2012-11-01 17:41:21 UTC
Arduemont wrote:


That's not an exploit. That's one fool deciding to loose 400m for no good reason.


1) Think of it as a sunk cost. As soon as someone puts that size bounty on you, you are going to lose the ships anyway. Someone is going to find you, kill you, and collect the bounty. Waiting for a bounty hunter to come find you, you are out the 500 million ISK worth of ships.


2) Intentionally removing the bounty, you don't lose the 500 million or even 400 million. You lose some subset of that after you subtract loot and salvage.

I fit up a ship that is known to drop good T2 salvage, load it with faction mods... pop it. I get back the 100 million payout, the mods that drop and the salvage.



It is minimizing your losses.
Casirio
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#84 - 2012-11-01 17:42:15 UTC
NARDAC wrote:
Casirio wrote:

I will put 100 mil bounty on you just to see you take the cowards way out and let your friend blow up 500 mil worth of your ships. Still win for me.


How do you figure?

You lose the 100 million. I lose some subset of the 500 million that is not recouped by the 100M payout, drops and salvage.

How is that a win for you?


Because you are still losing isk... And I am disrupting your safety net so much that you would blow up 500 mil worth of ships to feel "safe". All I lose is 100 mil. I'm gonna get so many people to put bounties on your head now it is going to be hilarious as you blow up a few bil worth of ships to feel "safe" again.
Oaiso
#85 - 2012-11-01 17:45:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Oaiso
Speedkermit Damo wrote:

How exactly is griefing players until they unsub going to "save" EVE?


I think this entire thing just shows us what some people's priorities are.


"Herpdy doo, hmm 100m ISK laying around. Should I buy a ship for PVP? No, I think I'll indirectly grief this industrialist."
Robert De'Arneth
#86 - 2012-11-01 17:47:01 UTC
This high sec carebear will enjoy the new bountie system, I am making a list and checking it twice. So far 8 people will enjoy a bountie from me. I am kind of excited to so see how this will shape the game. Big smile Might even make me take up a new job as a bounty hunter. I really have to many ships at this point.

I'm a nerd, you can check my stats!! Skilling Int/Mem at 45 sp per minute is how I mack!     I'm like a lapdog, all bark no bite. 
Some Rando
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#87 - 2012-11-01 17:47:20 UTC
Oaiso wrote:
"Herpdy doo, hmm 100m ISK laying around. Should I buy a ship for PVP? No, I think I'll indirectly grief this industrialist."

End result in both cases: Ships destroyed. Win for the game.

CCP has no sense of humour.
NARDAC
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#88 - 2012-11-01 17:47:44 UTC  |  Edited by: NARDAC
Casirio wrote:

Because you are still losing isk...


As are you. How is that a win?


Casirio wrote:

And I am disrupting your safety net so much that you would blow up 500 mil worth of ships to feel "safe". All I lose is 100 mil. I'm gonna get so many people to put bounties on your head now it is going to be hilarious as you blow up a few bil worth of ships to feel "safe" again.


I don't lose the 500 million. It is some subset of that after the bounty, the drops and the salvage are recovered.

Casirio wrote:
blah, blah get everyone to put a bounty on you blah



Well, then it is a good thing I have like 50 alts that I can just log in on instead.
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#89 - 2012-11-01 17:51:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
Of course its a win, they can lower your wallet 400m for every 100m they put on you. If you both had 1b ISK fluid or otherwise, I could make you bankrupt you with 250m, lol.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#90 - 2012-11-01 17:52:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Riot Girl
Speedkermit Damo wrote:
How exactly is griefing players until they unsub going to "save" EVE?

I'm not going to answer this question. Instead I'm going to ask you if you think people will really unsub if they are ganked for their bounties? If you feel they will, what kind of player do you think they would be?

Oh god.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#91 - 2012-11-01 17:52:11 UTC
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
I just want to point out that you are still not going to be able to place bonties on people with a high sec rating.

No it's not mentioned.

The evidence of absence is not the absence of evidence.

How do you figure this?

They said they're removing the standing requirement to place a bounty and that you can put a bounty on anyone.
Quote:
Also, bounties can now be placed on anyone, we’re removing the -1 security standing requirement currently in the bounty system.


So do tell, how exactly won't you be able to place a bounty on someone with a high sec standing when the dev blog clearly says you can place a bounty on ANYONE because they're removing the sec standing requirement?
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#92 - 2012-11-01 17:52:42 UTC
EVE needs saving?

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Robert De'Arneth
#93 - 2012-11-01 17:54:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert De'Arneth
Riot Girl wrote:
Speedkermit Damo wrote:
How exactly is griefing players until they unsub going to "save" EVE?

I'm not going to answer this question. Instead I'm going to ask you if you think people will really unsub if they are ganked for their bounties? If you feel they will, what kind of player do you think they would be?



I hope those bumpers do put the bounties they claim they will on me, make it little more exciting while mining and traveling. I do hope it will add more fun, at the end of the day that is why we play. Big smile

I'm a nerd, you can check my stats!! Skilling Int/Mem at 45 sp per minute is how I mack!     I'm like a lapdog, all bark no bite. 
NARDAC
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#94 - 2012-11-01 18:01:43 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
Speedkermit Damo wrote:
How exactly is griefing players until they unsub going to "save" EVE?

I'm not going to answer this question. Instead I'm going to ask you if you think people will really unsub if they are ganked for their bounties? If you feel they will, what kind of player do you think they would be?



Yes.

One that pays CCP for their subscription (or someone else is paying for their sub via PLEX).
NARDAC
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#95 - 2012-11-01 18:05:46 UTC
Robert De'Arneth wrote:

I hope those bumpers do put the bounties they claim they will on me, make it little more exciting while mining and traveling. I do hope it will add more fun, at the end of the day that is why we play. Big smile



Or go cloak up AFK in some far flung end of the universe and see how many targets fly into my friends' gate camps while coming to look for me in hopes of collecting a bounty.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#96 - 2012-11-01 18:07:15 UTC
Does anyone know,

Is there some sort of time delay on when a bounty is placed and when it goes into effect? If I place a bounty on someone will that bounty be active the moment I place it, or will they have a small delay between when it's placed and when it's able to be accepted.

I'm wondering if maybe there should be a small delay to curb people flying around with alts or a group of friends, placing a bounty on a miner, and then blowing them up with the alt or have their friends do it.


I know people are going to rage over the bounty system, hell that's exactly what the OP is already doing, and I can see being able to place a bounty on a guy I'm sitting next to and then being able to immediately being able to kill them with an alt being used as a means to harrass an individual on the spot.

A delay in when you can start shooting the guy from the time the bounty is placed would at least give the miner a chance to dock, log out, or try and move systems, without being put into a position where two guys warp in, one places the bounty, and the other blows them up right then and there.


Also, when I think about it, the EHP buff and ore holds the barges and exhuamers got inferno actually makes more sense when you throw the bounty system into the mix. The EHP buff and ore holds mean you have slots you can now use to fit mods that would help you to get away from someone who would come to collect the bounty on you.

Not that miners will use the slots to protect themselves, they'll just rush to the forums and cry that they're going to quit if CCP doesn't make it so that bounties can't be placed on them. I expect the OP to be one of those people.
Robert De'Arneth
#97 - 2012-11-01 18:09:01 UTC
NARDAC wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
Speedkermit Damo wrote:
How exactly is griefing players until they unsub going to "save" EVE?

I'm not going to answer this question. Instead I'm going to ask you if you think people will really unsub if they are ganked for their bounties? If you feel they will, what kind of player do you think they would be?



Yes.

One that pays CCP for their subscription (or someone else is paying for their sub via PLEX).



People placing the bounties also pay, and ccp is the one adding this feture, I think they will not call it griefing. Nothing stopping the person who gets blown up to use that same tool. If I get blown up, you can bet i will use that tool to help get some revenge.

I'm a nerd, you can check my stats!! Skilling Int/Mem at 45 sp per minute is how I mack!     I'm like a lapdog, all bark no bite. 
Casirio
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#98 - 2012-11-01 18:10:42 UTC
NARDAC wrote:
Casirio wrote:

Because you are still losing isk...


As are you. How is that a win?


Casirio wrote:

And I am disrupting your safety net so much that you would blow up 500 mil worth of ships to feel "safe". All I lose is 100 mil. I'm gonna get so many people to put bounties on your head now it is going to be hilarious as you blow up a few bil worth of ships to feel "safe" again.


I don't lose the 500 million. It is some subset of that after the bounty, the drops and the salvage are recovered.

Casirio wrote:
blah, blah get everyone to put a bounty on you blah



Well, then it is a good thing I have like 50 alts that I can just log in on instead.



Good to know a bounty I set will stop you from logging in that toon. Good god you are the most risk adverse carebear yet.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#99 - 2012-11-01 18:15:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Athena
NARDAC wrote:
Casirio wrote:

I will put 100 mil bounty on you just to see you take the cowards way out and let your friend blow up 500 mil worth of your ships. Still win for me.


How do you figure?

You lose the 100 million. I lose some subset of the 500 million that is not recouped by the 100M payout, drops and salvage.

How is that a win for you?

If it drops, its not counted in computing the bounty payout for the kill. Salvage is not included, and is a potential cost reducer in this method of clearing a bounty.

Edit: There will be other cost saving methods. For example, pick ships and items that seem to have high valuations. After the FW fiasco CCP has put mechanics in place to prevent gaming the system too much, but there will be variations. Picking the right ship and cargo to get blown up will help. Maybe lower the cost of clearing a 100 mil bounty to 400 or even 300 million. Then with T2 salvage you might get it down to 200 million, only a 2 to 1 ratio to the bounty payout. Come December we may see "cheapest fits for bounty clearing" threads.

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Lipbite
Express Hauler
#100 - 2012-11-01 18:31:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Lipbite
Gogela wrote:
Suicide ganking will be unaffected.


Surely suicide ganking will be affected: suicide ganker in Tornado w/o any tank with 100m bounty is an easy / desired target for a suicide ganker in Catalyst or Vexor.

edit: well, Catalyst cannot kill Tornado before Concord. But there is possibility to get more money from implants / pod killing so people with > 50mill bounties won't be able to use shuttles or frigs.