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solo mining in mach vs orca?
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Moistmuffin RKHT
My Little Uniponisus
#1 - 2012-10-31 20:10:00 UTC
So my indy alt has been doing well with his mach and isk earning and he's about 10 days from being able to pilot an Orca. I was thinking of moving him into this ship since it holds more than the machinaw and ideally it'd make for better mining ops for the corp, but I'm wondering if there is any reason to NOT move him into an Orca?

I created Ave Molech and I love ponies.
Reticle
Sight Picture
#2 - 2012-10-31 20:16:43 UTC
Moistmuffin RKHT wrote:
So my indy alt has been doing well with his mach and isk earning and he's about 10 days from being able to pilot an Orca. I was thinking of moving him into this ship since it holds more than the machinaw and ideally it'd make for better mining ops for the corp, but I'm wondering if there is any reason to NOT move him into an Orca?

I was laughing pretty hard before I realized you misspelled Mack as Mach.

Oh to use a Machariel for mining.
Tarendar
Sparkle Pony Inc
#3 - 2012-10-31 21:00:10 UTC
Moistmuffin RKHT wrote:
So my indy alt has been doing well with his mach ... if there is any reason to NOT move him into an Orca?


The Mach can carry more than twice as many mining lasers, and go over 1.5k/second if fit correctly, and... oh, fine, I'll quit poking at you about the misspelling.

The thing about the Orca is that it's a booster and collector, which means it's not a miner. One Orca = two fewer lasers, some percentage gain for everybody else, easier life for your hauler. The biggest miner I know has said that the Orca becomes worth using when you've got four Hulks running; I'll take his word for it, he generates a dozen plex a month that way.

So, if you're running fewer than six accounts altogether in an op, you're probably better off jumping into a barge; eight or more, bring the Orca. Is it "worth it" to have the big lump in your hangar? Depends on how often you get those eight people together, and on how funny you think it is to warp sideways (1).


1) How to make an Orca warp sideways: Fit a reactor control and MWD. Get in space. Initiate warp. "Pulse" the MWD-- on, then immediately off again. When the MWD finishes cycling, you'll still be pointed somewhere totally wrong, but you're going fast enough so VOOF. Whee!
Dave stark
#4 - 2012-10-31 21:02:26 UTC
2 hulks 1 orca > 1 mack 1 hulk > 2 macks > 1 hulk 1 orca >1 mack 1 orca

at max skills.
Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2012-10-31 21:04:51 UTC
Are you talking about mining with an orca + another mining alt?

Mining in 2 mackinaws will out yield a mackinaw + orca, even with full orca boots + implant. Orca is only useful if you're very very lazy now.

Basically it comes down to this. If you have an Orca with max boosts + mining formen implant an Orca + 2 hulks will out yield 3 mackinaws. Without an implant 3 mackinaws will out yield an Orca + 2 hulks.

An orca without the implant + 3 covetors / hulks will out yield 4 mackinaws.

The easiest way to remember is a max orca without the implant is roughly 30% increase in yield, while an orca + implant is roughly 50%. So 30% boosts means 3 ships will equal to 1 ships worth of bonuses. 50% boosts means 2 ships are equal to 1 ships worth of bonuses.

These numbers are by no means exact (hence the use of roughly) but it should give you an idea of when to use an Orca or when to use a mining barge.
Dave stark
#6 - 2012-10-31 21:11:16 UTC
Styth spiting wrote:
These numbers are by no means exact (hence the use of roughly) but it should give you an idea of when to use an Orca or when to use a mining barge.


as soon as you have 3 accounts is when you should start using an orca, assuming all characters have the relevant skills and implants.

for 2 accounts like i run, the orca is just if you're worried about ganking/really wanting to be lazy with hauling.
Moistmuffin RKHT
My Little Uniponisus
#7 - 2012-10-31 21:20:30 UTC
Thanks all this is very helpful info.

Currently my indy alt does most of the mining in his Mack semi-afk on my other monitor with my main often doing mission running with other corp members or with me playing security for him and mining in a vexor. However we do have another player who has come with us on mining and when that happens I usually hop in my iteron m3 to haul stuff back and forth to the station so no one has to leave the mining site. However player three is in a Navi, soon to be vexor mining fitted, but will be a while before he'll be in a barge.

I created Ave Molech and I love ponies.
Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2012-10-31 21:44:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Styth spiting

    Hulk (Max skills, no drones, no implant) MLUII x 2 MSMII x 3 + T2 veldspar mining crystals
  • 1547 yield / minute (no boosts)
  • 2169 yield/minute (orca + no implant)
  • 2629 yield/minute (orca + implant)



    Mackinaw (Max skills, no drones, no implant) MLUII x 3 MSMII x 2 + T2 veldspar mining crystals
  • 1339 yield / minute (no boosts)
  • 1877 yield/minute (orca + no implant)
  • 2275 yield/minute (orca + implant)
  • 1472 yield/minute (basic boosts) (Boots from fleet member with max skills, no implant, no Orca)



    2 accounts
  1. 2944 yield - 2 x Mackinaw basic boosts
  2. 2678 yield - 2 x Mackinaw
  3. 2629 yield - 1 x Hulk + orca + implant:
  4. 2169 yield - 1 x Hulk + orca + No implant



    3 accounts
  1. 5258 yield - 2 x Hulk + orca + implant:
  2. 4416 yield - 3 x Mackinaw + basic boosts
  3. 4338 yield - 2 x Hulk + orca + no implant
  4. 4017 yield - 3 x Mackinaw + no boosts



    4 accounts
  1. 7887 yield - 3 x Hulk + orca + implant:
  2. 6507 yield - 3 x Hulk + orca + No implant
  3. 5888 yield - 4 x Mackinaw + basic boosts
  4. 5356 yield - 4 x Mackinaw + no boosts


With 2 accounts the dual mackinaws with basic boosts beat everything, and even 2 Mackinaws with no boosts beat the Orca.

With 3 accounts the Orca + implant beats everyone. BUT 3 mackinaws with basic boosts still out yield 2 hulks + Orca without the implant.

And finally with 4 accounts we see Orca + implant beats everything, along with Orca without implant finally out yields the no orca setups.


All data generated using EFT.
Dave stark
#9 - 2012-10-31 21:49:01 UTC
Styth spiting wrote:

    Hulk (Max skills, no drones, no implant) MLUII x 2 MSMII x 3 + T2 veldspar mining crystals
  • 1547 yield / minute (no boosts)
  • 2169 yield/minute (orca + no implant)
  • 2629 yield/minute (orca + implant)



    Mackinaw (Max skills, no drones, no implant) MLUII x 3 MSMII x 2 + T2 veldspar mining crystals
  • 1339 yield / minute (no boosts)
  • 1877 yield/minute (orca + no implant)
  • 2275 yield/minute (orca + implant)
  • 1472 yield/minute (basic boosts) (Boots from fleet member with max skills, no implant, no Orca)



    2 accounts
  1. 2944 yield - 2 x Mackinaw basic boosts
  2. 2678 yield - 2 x Mackinaw
  3. 2629 yield - 1 x Hulk + orca + implant:
  4. 2169 yield - 1 x Hulk + orca + No implant



    3 accounts
  1. 5258 yield - 2 x Hulk + orca + implant:
  2. 4416 yield - 3 x Mackinaw + basic boosts
  3. 4338 yield - 2 x Hulk + orca + no implant
  4. 4017 yield - 3 x Mackinaw + no boosts



    4 accounts
  1. 7887 yield - 3 x Hulk + orca + implant:
  2. 6507 yield - 3 x Hulk + orca + No implant
  3. 5888 yield - 4 x Mackinaw + basic boosts
  4. 5356 yield - 4 x Mackinaw + no boosts


With 2 accounts the dual mackinaws with basic boosts beat everything, and even 2 Mackinaws with no boosts beat the Orca.

With 3 accounts the Orca + implant beats everyone. BUT 3 mackinaws with basic boosts still out yield 2 hulks + Orca without the implant.

And finally with 4 accounts we see Orca + implant beats everything, along with Orca without implant finally out yields the no orca setups.


All data generated using EFT.


for 2 accounts, hulk + mack would be better, using the mack as a pseudo hauler with lasers and having the hulk sat in the belt constantly.
Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2012-10-31 21:54:45 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Styth spiting wrote:
These numbers are by no means exact (hence the use of roughly) but it should give you an idea of when to use an Orca or when to use a mining barge.


as soon as you have 3 accounts is when you should start using an orca, assuming all characters have the relevant skills and implants.

for 2 accounts like i run, the orca is just if you're worried about ganking/really wanting to be lazy with hauling.


Technically if you are running 3 mackinaws with 1 setup as squad booster (basically mining foreman V) the 3 x mackinaws will out yield 2 hulks with an orca boosting without the mining foreman mindlink implant.

But like how you said you mine with an orca / miner these values don't take into consideration any other benefit besides max yield. I personally will always mine with an Orca regardless of how many miners I have for all the additional boosts that are received. Additional EHP + max laser range are far far more valuable then a slight boost to mining yield.

The values also don't take into consideration hauling time. or ease of mining (using hulks requiring to unload cargoholds every cycle) etc. which really are the deciding factors for most players.
Dave stark
#11 - 2012-10-31 21:59:08 UTC
Styth spiting wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Styth spiting wrote:
These numbers are by no means exact (hence the use of roughly) but it should give you an idea of when to use an Orca or when to use a mining barge.


as soon as you have 3 accounts is when you should start using an orca, assuming all characters have the relevant skills and implants.

for 2 accounts like i run, the orca is just if you're worried about ganking/really wanting to be lazy with hauling.


Technically if you are running 3 mackinaws with 1 setup as squad booster (basically mining foreman V) the 3 x mackinaws will out yield 2 hulks with an orca boosting without the mining foreman mindlink implant.

But like how you said you mine with an orca / miner these values don't take into consideration any other benefit besides max yield. I personally will always mine with an Orca regardless of how many miners I have for all the additional boosts that are received. Additional EHP + max laser range are far far more valuable then a slight boost to mining yield.

The values also don't take into consideration hauling time. or ease of mining (using hulks requiring to unload cargoholds every cycle) etc. which really are the deciding factors for most players.


if you don't have an implant, you shouldn't be boosting.

i personally will be going 1 mack 1 orca for max laziness, to be honest. i'm quite guilty of watching tv/films while mining and just listening out for the "asteroid is depleted" message.
Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2012-10-31 22:25:21 UTC
Dave stark wrote:

if you don't have an implant, you shouldn't be boosting.



If a person is using 2 + mining ships why wouldn't they have 1 boosting? Its roughly 11 days training time, an 80,000isk skill book, and increases the yield of the two + miners each by 10%. With just 2 mackinaws and 1 set to boosting that's almost 3M isk extra per hour (using veldspar).
Dave stark
#13 - 2012-10-31 22:32:25 UTC
Styth spiting wrote:
Dave stark wrote:

if you don't have an implant, you shouldn't be boosting.



If a person is using 2 + mining ships why wouldn't they have 1 boosting? Its roughly 11 days training time, an 80,000isk skill book, and increases the yield of the two + miners each by 10%. With just 2 mackinaws and 1 set to boosting that's almost 3M isk extra per hour (using veldspar).


i meant boosting with an orca. that 50% link bonus is huge.
Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2012-10-31 22:52:20 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Styth spiting wrote:
Dave stark wrote:

if you don't have an implant, you shouldn't be boosting.



If a person is using 2 + mining ships why wouldn't they have 1 boosting? Its roughly 11 days training time, an 80,000isk skill book, and increases the yield of the two + miners each by 10%. With just 2 mackinaws and 1 set to boosting that's almost 3M isk extra per hour (using veldspar).


i meant boosting with an orca. that 50% link bonus is huge.


I mine with 3 hulks or covetors + orca without the implant because the price for me out weighs the gains.

The per hour gains over a Covetor and orca without an implant is about 4.5M isk per hour (max skills, perfect boosts, T2 ganglinks, no mining yield implant, Covetor set to max yield). With an average daily price of the mining foreman mindlink implant of 1.2B (price ranges from 1.1B to 1.5B) it would take 266 hours of mining before seeing any profit. With 3 miners + orca it would be 89 hours of mining. So even at mining 5 hours per week it would take 4.5 months.

But yeah, thats just me :)
Dave stark
#15 - 2012-10-31 23:05:07 UTC
give up an account for 2 months and you'll be ahead.