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Timeline doesn't make sense to me.

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Author
Graelyn
Reikoku
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#21 - 2012-10-30 03:35:49 UTC
Sure, the colonies fell apart on their own.

The EVE Gate also exploded on it's own.

In case I'm not being understood here, I firmly believe that all of these things, the chaos that followed, and the simultaneous failures of all surviving colonies to maintain, were given a nice big push.

Cardinal Graelyn

Amarr Loyalist of the Year - YC113

Gussarde en Welle
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2012-10-30 04:10:24 UTC
AlleyKat wrote:

Nice try.

It didn't affect the jumpgates, 'mate.

AK


Ever explore much? There are TONS of destroyed and abandoned jump gates, and tons of ancient abandoned outposts especially in highsec space.
Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
#23 - 2012-10-30 12:52:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Pottsey
CCP Eterne wrote:
The explosion of the EVE Gate would have ruined the jump gates in New Eden and surrounding systems. Considering that New Eden was the central hub of the cluster at the time, the loss of those gates could have easily been catastrophic to travel.

That is not what the story says as the wormhole shut peacefully, there was no explosion. Has the background been changed again? A strange magnetic storm appear in every system with a jump gate. This was the catastrophic that caused all the problems as the colony’s which relayed on food and supplies from the well built colony’s suddenly got cut off.

To quote the background directly ""Scientists warned that the wormhole would close again within a few decades. Racing against time, construction began on a manmade portal to allow safe passage between the home system and EVE. A World Beyond Worlds Suddenly, the scientists’ worst fears were realized and the wormhole closed. Nonetheless, construction continued and the gates of EVE opened and operated perfectly for seven decades. Disaster struck once again. An unexplained phenomenon engulfed the Gates of EVE, rendering them inoperable. Restoration efforts proved futile due to the malevolent magnetic storm perpetually surrounding the gates. The results were swift and devastating."

So the wormhole was expected to shut, it shut peacefully, 70years later an unexplained phenomenon took out all the gates of New Eden. During this time the very primitive Jove are a sleep in Cryo stasis unaware of what’s going off. The lore goes on to say the more advanced race's like the Yan Jung and less advanced Jove all recoverd in a few centuries built up empires and in the case of Yan Jung had larger then Dreadnoughts shps flying around for 1000's of years then all of a sudden these high tech empires vanished. Faster forward Jove rebuild yet again and fall apart due to the Jove Illness and sleepers. Faster forward and the next jove empire rebuilds, fast forward 800years and our 4 main empires grow up.

EDIT: : Out of interest the old lore that got lost with the new website said the wormhole was in the Canopus system which makes it an estimated 310 light years (96 parsecs) from our solar system/Earth.
CCP Eterne
C C P
C C P Alliance
#24 - 2012-10-30 13:59:27 UTC
I would count an unexplained phenomena "engulfing" with subsequent "malevolent" storms around the gates to be anything but peaceful.

EVE Online/DUST 514 Community Representative ※ EVE Illuminati ※ Fiction Adept

@CCP_Eterne ※ @EVE_LiveEvents

Roga Dracor
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#25 - 2012-10-30 14:31:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Roga Dracor
Pottsey wrote:
To quote the background directly ""Scientists warned that the wormhole would close again within a few decades. Racing against time, construction began on a manmade portal to allow safe passage between the home system and EVE. A World Beyond Worlds Suddenly, the scientists’ worst fears were realized and the wormhole closed. Nonetheless, construction continued and the gates of EVE opened and operated perfectly for seven decades. Disaster struck once again. An unexplained phenomenon engulfed the Gates of EVE, rendering them inoperable. Restoration efforts proved futile due to the malevolent magnetic storm perpetually surrounding the gates. The results were swift and devastating."


An unexplained phenomena engulfed the gates of Eve. Engulfed means it was exterior to the gates, such as a tidal wave engulfing a coastline. Perpetual magnetic storms surrounding the gates. They still only allow distant study of the gates. The results were swift and devastating. This seems pretty cut and dried, to me. Always has, too. My arguments to this effect have fallen on deaf ears for years. Electromagnetic interference has some wider implications, as well. It has a very specific and detrimental effect on electronics. The word devastating has always been there.

A Nova involving the New Eden star seems to be the most likely scenario. Novae occur regularly in some stars that share the characteristics of New Eden's star. Such a burst would also likely effect those systems in the immediate area of New Eden. At the very least a wave of radiation, possibly electromagnetic in spectrum. The gates very well could be interacting with the star to this day.

Such an EM pulse, if it occured, would eventually spread out over most, if not all of New Eden, at or near the speed of light. Only slowing with the relative density of the interstellar medium.

Quote:
Recurrent novae like RS Ophiuchi (those with periods on the order of decades) are rare. Astronomers theorize however that most, if not all, novae are recurrent, albeit on time scales ranging from 1,000 to 100,000 years. The recurrence interval for a nova is less dependent on the white dwarf's accretion rate than on its mass; with their powerful gravity, massive white dwarfs require less accretion to fuel an outburst than lower-mass ones. Consequently, the interval is shorter for high-mass white dwarfs.


If a wormhole opens near such a star, are you not opening the possibility to an increased accretion rate via the wormhole? And consequently, the Gates themselves, which open a wormhole between them? Many gates are positioned very close to gas giants...

The only ambiguity there is in the conflicting descriptions presented in lore as to it's spectral type.. One source says white dwarf[1], while the static data refers to it as a small yellow sun[2].. Devs care to clarify here?

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.

Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#26 - 2012-10-30 15:52:25 UTC
CCP Eterne wrote:
I would count an unexplained phenomena "engulfing" with subsequent "malevolent" storms around the gates to be anything but peaceful.



Sure you can! Let's all hold hands and sing Kuuumbayaaaa while the world ends! Totally peaceful Pirate

Where I am.

Borascus
#27 - 2012-10-30 15:53:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Borascus
The closure of the gates itself may have been brought about via understanding of the materials used in its construction.

Silk for example is a low conductor of electricity and is susceptible to static cling, if this applied to the metals in the gate the storms would be pinned to the gate, as opposed to being generated around it.


Hooke's Law describes the elasticity and plasticity of materials used in springs (a common experiment for Hooke's Law is to suspend a wire and attach weights to the lower end, measuring the elongation, and reciprocation afterwards).

During the study, the wire can have 1N, 2N, 5N (where N is a newton) attached to the lower end, in the elastic zone, the weights applied stretch the wire, which then completely reciprocates back to its original length. At the materials plastic point; the extension of the wire is irreversible.

Beyond the elastic point a dislocation occurs within the wire leading to a fault in the wire, the wire snaps.

The dislocation within the material relies heavily on the composition of the material, much as playing tetris with identical pieces, whereby compression causes the egdes to encase a void - causing the dislocation to occur. Its most easily repeated using copper wire.

A plenary wire, for example, would be less likely to allow a dislocation to form. As plenary means:

Quote:
Plenary is an adjective related to the noun plenum carrying a general connotation of fullness


So, if the material used in construction was semi-impervious to kin / explo or therm assault for example a method to disable it would be needed. If the material was semi-impervious to electromagnetic conduction (protected from EM on the inside) it may still act as an attractor, locking EM storms to it.

All that aside the resources on this side of EVE were likely depleted rapidly or hoarded for some survival based purpose.
Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
#28 - 2012-10-30 15:55:31 UTC
CCP Eterne wrote:
I would count an unexplained phenomena "engulfing" with subsequent "malevolent" storms around the gates to be anything but peaceful.

I was more pointing out the wormhole shutting was peaceful and expected. A different event 70years after the wormhole shut was the problem. Also I just realized I read/remembered the story as gates of Eve as in all gates in Eve sectors got engulfed by the unexplained phenomenon. But I think I misread that and it meant to be read as the gates of Eve as in the two gates at the wormhole called Eve. Not all the gates of Eves sector as I read it :(
.
Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
#29 - 2012-10-30 16:00:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Pottsey
Roga Dracor wrote:


If a wormhole opens near such a star, are you not opening the possibility to an increased accretion rate via the wormhole? And consequently, the Gates themselves, which open a wormhole between them? Many gates are positioned very close to gas giants...

The only ambiguity there is in the conflicting descriptions presented in lore as to it's spectral type.. One source says white dwarf[1], while the static data refers to it as a small yellow sun[2].. Devs care to clarify here?

Both could be correct. If I remember the old lore correctly and it’s been a long time all jump gates are basically fixed wormholes and only function in binary systems. Technically the only systems we can jump to are systems with two stars orbiting each other. Which is why we are have limited star gates and system in Eve compared to the size of a galaxy. So perhaps its an Yellow sun and White dwarf?
Gussarde en Welle
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2012-10-30 16:25:06 UTC
Maybe the EvE galaxy is to Earth as Australia is to the UK. A former penal colony for undesirables.
Tykari
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2012-10-30 18:00:01 UTC
The Dark Ages are really just the perspective of the current Empires. To them it was a dark age with technology and knowledge lost . The truth is likely slightly different, some of the Ancient races like the Yan Jung and the Talocan as others have mentioned, were alive and kicking during that time period and the Jove Empires as well. Some of those civilisations died out or vanished and possibly wars like the ones between the current Empires were reponsible.

As for the jumpgates and the wormhole collapse. Well it's guessing mostly, seeing the lore and backstory isn't entirely clear. On one hand we had the story of the EVE wormhole collapsing causing devestation, and on the other there is the story of the two massive jumpgates that replaced the natural wormhole experiencing something strange and causing mayhem.

One of my theories is that the natural wormhole was a recurring one. And with two massive jumpgates energizing that entire region of space when, whatever natural phenomenon caused the natural wormhole to begin with, reached it's zenit in the cycle and tried to reopen it, it overloaded the entire thing, sent a massive surge through the New Eden system that rippled throughout spacetime and wrecked every small jumpgate on it's way. The result being an area where the fabric of space is just a mess of violent energy and gravity disturbances still centered on the massive jumpgate. The astounding thing really is that apparently that gate is still intact and smack in the center while everything else that gets near is just torn to shreds.

In this dark void we are like brilliant stars, holding within us both the creative and destructive power to bring a new dawn upon worlds or plunge them into eternal darkness.

Itsumaden
State War Academy
Caldari State
#32 - 2012-11-04 09:14:13 UTC
Graelyn wrote:
Sure, the colonies fell apart on their own.

The EVE Gate also exploded on it's own.

In case I'm not being understood here, I firmly believe that all of these things, the chaos that followed, and the simultaneous failures of all surviving colonies to maintain, were given a nice big push.


By whom?
Wyke Mossari
Staner Industries
#33 - 2012-11-04 12:43:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Wyke Mossari
CCP Falcon wrote:
What a lot of people don't remember about the collapse of the EVE Gate when they're done reading is that it didn't just close.

It collapsed violently, and almost obliterated the entire system of New Eden with an enormous release of energy that decimated most of what was originally there, including most of the settlers. It's reasonable to assume that the sheer amount of energy released could have destroyed or fried a lot of the electronics for several systems over once they were hit with the blast wave.

Also bear in mind that based on an 80 year lifespan, 8000 year is 100 generations. That's 100 generations of attempting to rebuild society from shattered ruins.

I think it's safe to assume that they had it pretty rough for at least a couple of thousand years of that. Smile



It's taken us (Earth) 200 years to advance from the Industrial Age to the Information Age and It took 2000 year to advance from the Bronze Age to the Industrial Age. In 8000 years we have advanced from the stone to now.

The obvious implication is that the Human beings in New Eden were reduced to a stone age level culture. Life expenctancy in the stone age was about 30. A generation in Human biology is one cycle of producing progeny, it is about 20 years in people, it is not the maxium life span.

A breeding population needs about 200 individuals to sustain sufficient genetic variety to avoid inbreeding. That is a significant resevoir of knowledge.

That suggests development in New Eden has been held back in some way.
Seriphyn Inhonores
Elusenian Cooperative
#34 - 2012-11-04 15:13:56 UTC
Turusk wrote:
I'm relatively new to Eve and I've been reading up on the lore. I think there are quite a few problems with the lore, like how the Amarr, Gallente and Caldari were conveniently able to unite their worlds under one state... it's pretty unthinkable for Earth.


I know none of us are addressing this point, but I'll do it anyway. I think the biggest thing is that because these civilizations evolved from one original colony, you don't have as an extreme diversity as you do on Earth. That said...

Amarr - Outright conquest and subjugation of all other states

Caldari - Megacorporations swept everyone into one identity following the secession

Gallente - Actually...nothing really suggests they're united. An article on the FP suggest GalPrime is still broken down into nation-states. Hence 'federation'

My thoughts at least.
Corvus Idolon
Idolon Industries
#35 - 2012-11-04 20:18:59 UTC
Itsumaden wrote:
Graelyn wrote:
Sure, the colonies fell apart on their own.

The EVE Gate also exploded on it's own.

In case I'm not being understood here, I firmly believe that all of these things, the chaos that followed, and the simultaneous failures of all surviving colonies to maintain, were given a nice big push.


By whom?


Quote:
A rouge faction of Terrans maybe? Although I cant think of a reason any one would want to close the eve gate. Maybe some nut cases afraid of the possibility of there being aliens in New Eden?

It's taken us (Earth) 200 years to advance from the Industrial Age to the Information Age and It took 2000 year to advance from the Bronze Age to the Industrial Age. In 8000 years we have advanced from the stone to now.

The obvious implication is that the Human beings in New Eden were reduced to a stone age level culture. Life expenctancy in the stone age was about 30. A generation in Human biology is one cycle of producing progeny, it is about 20 years in people, it is not the maxium life span.

A breeding population needs about 200 individuals to sustain sufficient genetic variety to avoid inbreeding. That is a significant resevoir of knowledge.

That suggests development in New Eden has been held back in some way.
Just because it took us 8000 years to advance on earth doesn't necessarily mean a group of stone age colonists in a different galaxy would advance at the same rate, Different historical events in the planets history and such.

Is there anything to suggest why the first Jovian empire collapsed? I know the second was due to the Jovian Disease.
Tavin Aikisen
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#36 - 2012-11-05 01:02:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Tavin Aikisen
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:
[quote=Turusk]
Caldari - Megacorporations swept everyone into one identity following the secession


EVE Chronicles - Cold Wind shows the caldari having been reduced to a very primitive peoples. Here they are seen fighting with spears and other melee weapons below the Kaalakiota peaks.

The story also depicts that they were a very unified race before the mega corporations came to be. They had a world spanning Raata Empire shortly before the formation of the State and the union of all the mega corporations. A real world analogy to the caldari would be sport. You're all football fans, you all love to watch and play the game, but on a deeper level you're all committed to different teams. And of course, football fans don't care for other codes of football. :P

"Remember this. Trust your eyes, you will kill each other. Trust your veins, you can all go home."

-Cold Wind

Uraniae Fehrnah
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2012-11-05 06:54:05 UTC
I'm surprised no one has bothered to bring up Earth's own Middle Ages or Dark Age. Take a look at the history of Europe and the Mediterranean regions of Africa and Asia. Without getting into a huge historical debate over the specifics, it's easy to say our own Dark Ages began with the fall of the Roman Empire, and continued for about 500-600 years. Literacy rates plummeted, mortality rates rose, nations crumbled and reformed and a good deal of Antiquity's important cities and sites were literally looted to help support local populations. Roughly 600 years of stunted progress chiefly because the primary power in the region collapsed (of course there are plenty of reasons for that collapse.) Sanitation, medicine, mathematics and engineering, all things needed to support large and dense populations took few real steps forward for those centuries. The economic, military, and social power that was allowing progress collapsed, and it took the Mediterranean region centuries to recover then truly start advancing again. And really the losses of our own Dark Ages weren't as staggering a setback as modern, industrial society has set itself up for the next time it happens. I think it is fair to say that the higher you are, the harder you hit the ground when you fall.

Another thing to consider is the wider timeline of humanity as whole. While there is still plenty of debate about exactly when humanity really made the shift from a hunter-gatherer society into an agrarian society, some recent archaeological finds would suggest that this happened in Mesopotamia somewhere between 12,000 BC and 10,000 BC. That's a good 14,000 years from the roots of living in cities to now. You want to go further back? Some of the oldest known remains of modern humans date back to between 195,000 and 130,000 BC. We'll round and call that 200,000 years of humanity to get us from hunter-gatherers to iPhones.

Looking at those numbers I think an 8000 year Dark Age, from the perspective of the 4 current empires is entirely plausible.
Anslo
Scope Works
#38 - 2012-11-05 15:48:52 UTC
Wyke Mossari wrote:
That suggests development in New Eden has been held back in some way.


Who would possibly want to hold back human advancement?
Also I see your point. How could a group of humans fall so quickly from a hyper advanced civilization to a bunch of stone aged barbarians? It couldn't have just been natural. Someone or something must have fried em.

P.S. I LOVE threads like this. This is why we need moar storyline! CCP! MOAR STORY! MOAR TERRANS! MOAR ANCIENT PEOPLES! MOOOOAAAR

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Da'iel Zehn
Evil Frosty's Premium Liqours and Fine Wines
#39 - 2012-11-09 18:55:40 UTC
I had been thinking about how the people of New Eden could have slipped so far backward after the EvE Gate closure. What was the cause? So I wrote this short story from some of my thoughts. Corruption

This is my story I entered into the fiction writing contest that ends 12/2/12.
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#40 - 2012-11-12 14:38:59 UTC
Gussarde en Welle wrote:
AlleyKat wrote:

Nice try.

It didn't affect the jumpgates, 'mate.

AK


Ever explore much? There are TONS of destroyed and abandoned jump gates, and tons of ancient abandoned outposts especially in highsec space.


I explored new eden 7 years ago - my point is and shall always be: the lore was written to appease game design, not logic.

The cannon is just part of the sandbox, go play with it, no one is going to stop you.

This space for rent.