Ships & Modules

brutix + web drones. :}

Exactly. I don't care about getting the kill myself, I just want to disable the guy until help arrives (~30 seconds).

We (kind of) successfully caught the guy today. A Wolf scrammed him and was able to keep him that way until an Azaru arrived, which was then able to hold him until the rest of the gang caught up. Not ideal though; we lost the Wolf and the Azaru was almost into structure. I think I might have to give the Rapier a try. Loki sounds ideal, but its also expensive. We had one in our gang and I noticed the Cyna would immediately warp off if the Loki appeared on grid.

If i see a lone rapier in a vaga/cyna within web range, i will bum rush it. A rapier will not live more than 20-30 seconds if they overheat and crash into you.

This is a throwback to the old 'nano' phase of eve. people where like "lawl, huginn > vaga, easy kills". ANy vagabond pilot who know they can't warp off will just overheat their top rack and cut the recon in half before backup arrive.

The cynabal compound the issue since it has more EHP and damage. TH e stiletto is a better choice imo for baiting it into a fight and not dieing.

I used to say the Catalyst.

But the last four cynabals I tried to engage in a catalyst ran away instead of shooting me.

It's really, really scary, since if they're smart, they can kill me in a heartbeat.

Just get yourself another Cynabal.

I've never really understood these threads: there are so many scenarios and the presentation is always vague.

If you are not alone you only really need one offensive tackle ship and one form of support. This could be a Rapier + Scimitar pair. It could also be something like a fire-support ship with high DPS to go with the offensive tackler. That lead us onto the next bit.

The reason you want some kind of support is because a Rapier alone would see the Cynabal switch to offensive-mode and move in for a brawl (afterall, the Rapier will not out-dps or tank a Cynabal at standard point-range and down).

Picking any other ship and the Cynabal is faced with similar concerns. This is where the logic in most of these threads begin to break down. There are plenty of options if you assume that the Cynabal actually engage you to begin with - that he actually come into your snap-range to apply effective tackle and damage - that he wants to catch and kill you.

There are very few miracle ships in the game that are better at both catching and brawling, at a lower pricetag or an "engagable" outlook. Those ships don't exist because they're not meant to exist - it's called balance. It's not like Cynabals run around without concern for what they commit to. What's "engagable" is also in the eye of the beholder. Facing an experienced and high esteem player, he will consider far more things "engagable". It's not a solid definition.

If the question is "can do" and not what "reliably do" the number of options are plentiful. You can beat a Cynabal with a lone Rapier or Huginn. You have the tools to catch him and if you play better than your opponent the difference in tank-spank is not so vast to make it impossible for you to win if he decides to go offensive.

You could do something as simple as stick a faction-point plus LR weapons on a Huginn and you'd be able to kite him outside of his point-range similar to how he play defensively against other ships (assuming he is standard Tech II / AC fit). The further out from his point-range you push him, the more his damage will drop comparative yours and the disparity between your tanks. That too ofc. also assume that he is not better than you at execute the flying bit or recieve any other favourable factors (such as starting in brawl range; as you can twist and turn anything "prospective" in favour in EVE).

Personally, i wouldn't do something odd like that - i'd just trap him with two offensive ships.

In short:

- Any combination that allow you to trap an opponent (eg., a Recon-support pair, or bait + cloaky Recon).
- Any ship with high offensive tackle combined with fair tank-spank (eg., a Recon)
- Any ship with fair mobility ontop of better tank-spank, provided the target engage, at all (eg., Tech III)
- Any ship with similar features as the target based on the "execution principle" of the Recons (eg., a Vaga).

If there is a super ship that is less expensive, look more engageable, is as fast and can both catch and brawl the Cynabal? No, those don't exist and would never be allowed to exist. They're not meant to exist.

Trying to combine the element of "engageability" with "reliable win" is nonsensical. Ships become "engageable" when you give an advantage to the opponent (percieved or real), and assume to push through thanks to piloting or pilot error.

The same scenarios still apply though...

Wether something survive or not is ultimately up to you, the choices you make and how you define terms of estimation. A Rapier is cheaper than a Cynabal, so comparatively it would be cheap and perform the tackle aspect with grace while retaining the tank to hold out until help arrives. What is "too expensive"? It's not an absolute definition.

If you want to further complicate things you need to ask yourself the question what the "help" entail. Will the help be able to apply secondary tackle, reach or catch up? What is "too expensive" or skillpoint-intensive for the help?

There are alot of ships that can maintain point and survive for 1-2min against a Cynabal. However, even if help warps to a gang-mate (instead of a gate or w/e) they may end up 100km away from the fight if there is no secondary tackle applied and two ships pointing each other will drift around burning their MWD from point-of-warp to actual landing.

Assuming the help has 100km webbers + pointers and snipers, a simple Interceptor will be able to maintain point long enough to establish the 100km killzone. Then the help have the secondary tackle required to maintain the killzone, if they don't, the bait need to establish a killzone relative it's help (and have it's own secondary tackle). An Interceptor with a faction-point can hit 65km point-ranges, AC don't do alot of damage there - at the same time - if the Interceptor defensively skirts his limit the Cynabal may be able to disengage as local spikes. It's a complicated relationship between who takes risks and the switches between offensive and defensive roles (the cat becomes the mouse, etc.).

Is 65km absolute? Not at all, it could be anything. It's a question of the ranges you adapt in regard to his falloff and how much you estimate you could tank and in what time-frame you expect to do it. The 65km is just showing you another extreme. Just like the Recons - an experienced Interceptor pilot will know how to maintain point and mitigate enough damage to survive until help arrives. It's not a question of being able to do something or not, at all - it's likelyhood.

Assuming the Cynabal takes risk to burn a bait-ship down all you need to do is surprise him with a tank and tackle he doesn't expect. You could armor-tank a ship that normally shield-tanks and fill your mids with secondary tackle. That ultimately have to do with the choices the Cynabal-pilot makes though and you need to keep in mind that "expensive" is a variable in what makes you "engageable". Some people will simply not take bait that isn't worth any risk. An expensive ship becomes appealing to kill. He is afterall flying a 300m ship and may not be keen to go for small-fry even if he thinks he could win with relative ease, he would at least not commit when engaging because he doesn't have to.

If you have a frigate-gang: don't send in one bait-ship, send in a couple because the average Cynabal pilot is not too likely to consider a couple of frigates too daunting - and that give you plenty of potential leverage to surprise him and rush even more frigates ontop of him. He might not take on 15 frigates but he would possibly engage 3-5 and between them you could subside various forms of tackle and support. One of the ships entering staggeredly could be an all-Minmatar Kitsune for all we know or a Keres dropping him to half the lock-range of your point-range while more support pile in.

There are just so many options and variables that even with the added requirements in that short list - it doesn't really establish any truth or fact. That's part of the charm of EVE.

Hey numpty, learn to read and you might just learn to play the game.

1. He cant turn off your tackle if you have a nos, or are you unclear as to what that is? I'm sure in your extensive pvp experience you have encountered them before right? Condor is especially good at that with its cap bonus (omg derp whats that, dribble dribble)

2. Tackle is really the only issue as I said, but unless you have the IQ of a pile of dog ****...its not that hard to get a cynabal to follow you when you are in a T1 frig. He lands on you @ 0 and you have him.

Now please go learn a few things about pvp you pathetic wannabe. And quit giving **** advice and insulting people who actually are trying to help and know what they are talking about.

My opinion is invalid? LOL! Trust me big guy next to Loren I dont think there is a soul in the game with more experience then me in a Cynabal.

1. You can get him to land @ 0, and if you can't your just not even trying. Warp to a FW plex gate for example , he will follow at between 20-50. If you get the distance wrong warp off and try again. Use planets, belts, really doesn't matter. And its very simple.

2. Tackle will not turn off if you have a NOS, and you don't need an active tank. You can kill the 5 drones long before they become any threat and a TD stops damage from the guns completely.

TBH this should all be common sense to anyone with at least a little pvp experience. I have something like 2000 kills in a Cynabal and the majority were idiots in frigs mwding toward me thinking they could tackle me.

Here is the last one http://qcats.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=14346851
Called in the second condor because it was taking ages to kill him. Never dropped below 90% shields btw. Once you have them caught there is quite literally nothing they can do about it...

Those are very specific examples though Princess as they involve both him warping to you and him being alone.

I think it's fair examples, but it's situational among many and you seem quite eager to discredit other people's advice.

It raises the question of what you two actually are arguing about, and what's with the attitude.

Obviously, anyone can do anything in this game. I've seen frigates take on multiple capitals, scored several kills on support and pressured the capitals to force escalation.

It comes back to wether the question is "can do" or "reliably do" in a general scenario.