Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Thats the tenth time, the one time where the agressor maybe decided to stay for just a little to long. Or forgot to align to a safe spot. Or was just a little less focused than usual.

Naria Kentaya wrote that you could find a cloaker through effort, yet afk cloaking takes no effort at all.

Also players seem to like the phrase risk versus reward. Yet no risk is placed in the hands of the afk cloaker. If you want to bait the cloaker out you have to place yourself at risk, and hope he/she bites.

My biggest concern with afk cloaking is that they dont use the cloak for its intended purpose. The players that afk cloak wants a quick gank, or an easy kill. As represented in this very thread and others for suggesting incetives for making defending players undock from the station. That right there is a problem.

I was under the impression that a cloakers main objective was to gather intel. Killing should be the least of your concerns. If you are concerned about kills then you are doing it wrong. And players I have encountered that is out to gather intel, don't stick around. Its the players that wants a kill that do. And the ones that stick around rarely flies a cov-ops since, as stated, it has no tank. Again, the cloak is not being used for its purpose.

You type words, but a coherent sentence they do not make. Or possibly a coherent idea they do not spring from.

A cov-ops ship using a cov-ops cloak can, and most certainly should use the cloak to slip by defences and report weaknesses in enemy defences. Since they can warp while staying cloaked. And move about with no penalty to speed.

And I would mutch rather have that player on my team than the one worried about a lone drake somewhere that he could kill.

If a cov-op with a cov-op cloak camps a system he is doing it wrong.

If the cloaker in the system is fielding anything other than a cov-ops ship, then if he decides to afk cloak he should not be able to probe scan or dscan, to reflect his no risk no reward state, dont you agree?

Since he clearly is inactive I mean, by being afk.

This is the point where you admit to having no idea what wormhole life is like and that you're only concerned about one little slice of the game where you inhabit.

Wormholes are not "plagued" by afk cloaking at all. You know what? If someone's in your hole cloaked and afk you don't know it. Period. As a matter of fact, they're much less of a threat than the person in your hole cloaked that's actually at the keyboard. Here's the kicker... you don't know they're there either!

And it's perfectly fine like that.

You see, things are different in wormholes. We've learned to be alert. We use the tools at our disposal to do what we can to minimize risk... dscan, probes, etc., and we get out and function. Hell, if we suspect someone is in the hole cloaked that's when it gets fun... what can we do to bait him out? Now, a big part of why it's not such a big deal in a hole is the lack of the cyno thing. We know we're not suddenly going to have supers hot-dropped on our heads. That's why there should be considered the changes I recommended for how cloaked ships interact with local and with the cyno.

You're idea is flat out stupid however. It should NEVER be possible to know a cloaked person is in your hole for sure. If someone sneaks in while you're offlline and sits cloaked, that's their advantage, good job. They have carte blanche to fly around and scout things out, see if you're worth trying to gank or even prepare an op for. It's up to the inhabitants to be alert, notice if the cloaked guy makes a mistake or gives himself away, etc. To be able to log in and drop a probe that tells me whether or not there are cloaked bad guys in the hole? Boolsheet. Absolute boolsheet. You're taking away a critical part of wormhole life and wormhole survival.

Sorry, I do not agree with this solution. It reworks some of the major mechanics and is not necessary. Here is an option that I developed https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=23411 . I don't care whether it "needs" to be done for balance or not, that is irrelevant to the conversation.

I'm not talking about intel gathering in WH's here. That is done in a completely different manner cause of system mechanics. Im talking about intel gathering in 0.0, because of system mechanics.

In a cov-op, with a cov-op cloak, you can get quite a lot of info without being detected. From number of people in system to the reaction of said individuals. A cov-op generally have no tank, nor dps and need to keep a general low profile when sniffing about. Get what you need, and get out. That is how its usually been in my encounters of this kind, and that is not a problem. Cloak works as intended.

The problem arises when players uses ships not intended for cov-ops roles. That is where I think the system is wrong. Since you can still get plenty of info while staying cloaked. Dscan and probe scanning can be done even while you are cloaked, and this messes up with the no risk no reward. Since it really is no risk staying cloaked in a safe spot somewhere. Then you should not get any reward either, i.e. scanning information.

There's your problem. You need to take all areas that would be affected into account. If you come up with a means to detect cloaked ships, there's other aspects of the game you break beyond your little garden of love in null sec. In wormholes, covops ships will often sit cloaked for hours, days, weeks even gatherin intel. They need to be completely undetected and undetectable to do their jobs. You break that. Therefore your idea fails.

…and you're breaking that intel gathering with your proposal.
No you can't, for the simple reason that you are always detected. Local ensures this.
…and with your proposal, that is no longer possible because you want to enforce strict limits to how much you are allowed to “need”. All for no sufficiently explained reason.
Such as…?

I havent proposed anything yet thou.

And Ingvar, there is a rather easy way to exclude WH if you are so worried about it.

Example:
Module Something is doing something to something.

Warning! This module will not work outside known space.

Ninja Edit:

To answer your question Tippia. Scanning for possible gank sites while being safe inside enemy systems.

My only question was “[the problem arises when players uses ships not intended for cov-ops roles] such as…?” so I presume this is what you mean?

So… how is does that fall outside of the intended use of cloaks or non-covops ships?