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Ideals and Their Limits

Author
Mekhana
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-10-27 23:04:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Mekhana
Freedom

These letters carry power. More than one war was caused by this word. The weak steel themselves to rise against the strong. The weak win, becoming the strong so they can opress the weak around them.

Liberty

While freedom is personal and individualistic, the concept of liberty is like gunpowder. Nothing sparks a nation like a common enemy or a hero they can inspire to. Make that hero a martyr and you have made a quite a powderkeg for yourself.

These are all words common in the Gallente vocabulary. After all, they are the very foundation that the Federation was built on. Or so we say. However, I can admit the world is not so black and white after all. The Federation this days has enemies of all walks of life.

Terrorism

This is another popular word in the Gallente vocabulary. Truth be told we use this word against any enemy we can not deal with conventionally. Technically anyone can be a terrorist. Of course this is a major blow to the pride to terrorists worthy of the title but I think that's part of the plan as well. Terrorists have no special rights unlike actual enemy combatants. We're free to deal with terrorists as we wish. I've conducted some interrogations myself. Consider terrorists a mix between a petty thief and an abomination. No respect is given and it's sort must be swifty eliminated.

Sure you might hear on the news about we putting terrorists to trial but if those guys are the real deal you must be really naive to think they have any chance of seeing the sunlight ever again. As soon the cameras are turned off and the average Joe has moved on to care about his mundane life I can guarantee you the terrorist won't be living for much longer. He'll live as long he can keep from telling us who his friends are, where they are and what they are up to.

Humanity

Part of our ego trip we like to see ourselves as the bearers of the torch of the human race. Ironically this a great way to get your population to look at anything foreign with disregard. After all how could the Caldari ever cook well if they never leave their sad cubicles and board rooms. Do you really expect someone in the Amarr Empire is capable of literature that is not mere religious jibber jabber?

So anything made by Federation will be better. Because not only we hate relying on imports, we also technically hate anything foreign. After all only a ethnic Gallente could ever write an article about democracy or about law. Don't get me started on how it is hard to find a decent meal outside the Federation.

This is all an ingenious over the top nationalistic ploy thinly under the surface. The kind capable of making your skin crawl if you think deeply about it but has wonderful effects on our economy and how we engage in diplomatic talks. After all the only way to do something is our way, because we can both do it better and we can do it by ourselves. Obviously that is the best way.

So I think that's enough for today's lecture. Hopefully I opened a few eyes around here.

Vide longe er eros di Luminaire VII, uni canse pra krage e determiniex! Sange por Sange! Descanse bravex eros, mie freires. Mortir por vostre Liberete, farmilie, ide e amis. lons Proviste sen mort! Luminaire liber mas! 

Gussarde en Welle
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-10-27 23:13:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Gussarde en Welle
Mekhana wrote:
Freedom

After all how could the Caldari ever cook well if they never leave their sad cubicles and board rooms.



They make pretty good noodles, actually.
Mekhana
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-10-27 23:20:50 UTC
Noodles? I can hardly consider that food.

Vide longe er eros di Luminaire VII, uni canse pra krage e determiniex! Sange por Sange! Descanse bravex eros, mie freires. Mortir por vostre Liberete, farmilie, ide e amis. lons Proviste sen mort! Luminaire liber mas! 

Seriphyn Inhonores
Elusenian Cooperative
#4 - 2012-10-27 23:21:42 UTC
Self-scrutiny is inherent to a democracy, of course. Here, you're talking about thin veils. One can easily be nationalistic about the fact a democracy must be self-aware to progress. Again, that draws people to the Gallentean ideal, to conquer and expand ultimately.
Gussarde en Welle
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-10-27 23:27:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Gussarde en Welle
Mekhana wrote:


After all only a ethnic Gallente could ever write an article about democracy or about law.



All I can say is Periault, Ouriette, Tasanne and Metierre. I am an ethnic Intaki and you have to admit that this last statement is quantitatively true.

That being said, I have read decent Amarr science fiction. Khanid stuff if you can find it, is often really well written.

Ethnic Gallente street food is the clearly best in the galaxy - cheese encrusted meat with cream sauce - can't go wrong there... but I do have a fondness for Caldari fish products. The noodles really are good, Mekhana. Try it sometime.

And yes...I am regularly called a rabid Gallente nationalist, a pawn and a media tool of the state by Caldari and Sansha on these boards.They haven't seen me talk about my hopes to see the rise of a Intaki hedgemony yet. Smile
Mekhana
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-10-27 23:29:30 UTC
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:
Self-scrutiny is inherent to a democracy, of course. Here, you're talking about thin veils. One can easily be nationalistic about the fact a democracy must be self-aware to progress. Again, that draws people to the Gallentean ideal, to conquer and expand ultimately.


Exactly. A+

Vide longe er eros di Luminaire VII, uni canse pra krage e determiniex! Sange por Sange! Descanse bravex eros, mie freires. Mortir por vostre Liberete, farmilie, ide e amis. lons Proviste sen mort! Luminaire liber mas! 

Gussarde en Welle
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-10-27 23:43:38 UTC
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:
Self-scrutiny is inherent to a democracy, of course. Here, you're talking about thin veils. One can easily be nationalistic about the fact a democracy must be self-aware to progress. Again, that draws people to the Gallentean ideal, to conquer and expand ultimately.


But both you and Mekhana must see that it's a self-feeding cycle that ultimately constructs a paradigm. Democracy and freedom create the image that democracy and freedom are the only way. On the other hand, with the exception of the secession war, generally subordinate regimes end up asking to join the Federation of their own accord. Caldari and Amarr seem to think of this as a form of cultural tyranny; it just bewilders me as to why.

You seem to suggest here that, as these others have, that the Federation pumps out the culture as an offensive weapon with the intent of absorbing other cultures. Possible, but it's also important to remember that cultural absorption is a natural process that humanity has undergone for all known history. If the people of unaffiliated systems no longer wish to enjoy the benefits of the federation, they can spit out their organically-grown, herb-breaded steak, dump out their wine, turn off their entertainment systems, shut off Galnet and turn on high-power antennae to broadcast signals to their nearest Amarr or Blood Raider slavers to come pick them up.
Mekhana
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-10-27 23:48:58 UTC
Gussarde, that's just the natural order of things. They can try to adapt to survive longer but they all will get absorbed in the end. That's just how things are meant to be.

Vide longe er eros di Luminaire VII, uni canse pra krage e determiniex! Sange por Sange! Descanse bravex eros, mie freires. Mortir por vostre Liberete, farmilie, ide e amis. lons Proviste sen mort! Luminaire liber mas! 

Mekhana
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-10-28 01:41:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Mekhana
Also a second observation:

No ethnical Gallente, Jin Mei, Intaki or Matar individual has ever been called a terrorist by the government. They are always treated as criminals. Of course this special treatment guarantees they still have rights as our society dictates.

The only exception is when they have comitted treason and therefore lose their status.

Terrorists are always descendants of the Caldari State and Amarr Empire. Unless they turn their back to them, then they quickly ascend to the pantheon of heroes and freedom fighters. Because they 'fight the good fight'.

Ironically the numbers back this claim enough that there are scholars who actually believe the Caldari and Amarr are just naturally evil.

Vide longe er eros di Luminaire VII, uni canse pra krage e determiniex! Sange por Sange! Descanse bravex eros, mie freires. Mortir por vostre Liberete, farmilie, ide e amis. lons Proviste sen mort! Luminaire liber mas! 

Gussarde en Welle
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-10-28 03:23:43 UTC
Mekhana wrote:
Also a second observation:

No ethnical Gallente, Jin Mei, Intaki or Matar individual has ever been called a terrorist by the government. They are always treated as criminals. Of course this special treatment guarantees they still have rights as our society dictates.

The only exception is when they have comitted treason and therefore lose their status.

Terrorists are always descendants of the Caldari State and Amarr Empire. Unless they turn their back to them, then they quickly ascend to the pantheon of heroes and freedom fighters. Because they 'fight the good fight'.

Ironically the numbers back this claim enough that there are scholars who actually believe the Caldari and Amarr are just naturally evil.


I don't put much stake in "natural evil." I have met Amarr and Caldari that are decent, if a little backward, people.

I wonder what the statistics are on the labeling of Caldari/Amarr criminals as "terrorists" vs. "criminals." Are they labeled as terrorists for acts that Federation members are guilty of, or do they really commit acts worthy of "terrorist" far more often. The recent mass murder-suicide by Boma Araiken suggests that perhaps the facts really bear out this bias?
Gussarde en Welle
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-10-28 03:24:29 UTC
Mekhana wrote:
Gussarde, that's just the natural order of things. They can try to adapt to survive longer but they all will get absorbed in the end. That's just how things are meant to be.


You're how things are meant to be, Mekhana. Blink
Diana Kim
Kenshin Katana.
United Caldari Space Command.
#12 - 2012-10-28 05:16:35 UTC
Mekhana wrote:
Freedom

These letters carry power. More than one war was caused by this word. The weak steel themselves to rise against the strong. The weak win, becoming the strong so they can opress the weak around them.

Maybe there is a power, but this power is a power of emptiness, of void, that can devour weak egoistic souls. Freedom is an ultimate chaos. In mass, it can be dangerous, but properly ordered force will overcome ever greater freedom force and will put it to end.

Mekhana wrote:

Liberty

While freedom is personal and individualistic, the concept of liberty is like gunpowder. Nothing sparks a nation like a common enemy or a hero they can inspire to. Make that hero a martyr and you have made a quite a powderkeg for yourself.

Liberty is what opposed to courtesy, strictness and restraint. I really doubt any thinking nation will follow licentious hero (well, unless this nation was fed by rotten gallentean holoreels, where all scum is depicted as heroes)

Mekhana wrote:

Terrorism

This is another popular word in the Gallente vocabulary. Truth be told we use this word against any enemy we can not deal with conventionally. Technically anyone can be a terrorist. Of course this is a major blow to the pride to terrorists worthy of the title but I think that's part of the plan as well. Terrorists have no special rights unlike actual enemy combatants. We're free to deal with terrorists as we wish. I've conducted some interrogations myself. Consider terrorists a mix between a petty thief and an abomination. No respect is given and it's sort must be swifty eliminated.

Sure you might hear on the news about we putting terrorists to trial but if those guys are the real deal you must be really naive to think they have any chance of seeing the sunlight ever again. As soon the cameras are turned off and the average Joe has moved on to care about his mundane life I can guarantee you the terrorist won't be living for much longer. He'll live as long he can keep from telling us who his friends are, where they are and what they are up to.

Terrorism is just a poor man's war. Terrorists can't do proper attack on real properly defended military installations and achieve military goals, but they instead try to inspire fear to their enemies. Strong nations are resistant to their attacks, but weak ones (like Federation) fear them and treat them as one of highest threats, that in fact they are none.

Mekhana wrote:

Humanity

While humanity does still matter, humanity without rationalism will lead to degradation. In fact, if you can't sacrifice humanity for the sake of rationalism, you are already degraded.

Mekhana wrote:

So anything made by Federation will be better.

I don't know a single thing that is made by Federation and is, in fact, better. Because all these things from Federation are made by not professionals. Federation lacks system of merits, and people take improper places, efficiency drops significantly, quality of gallentean goods stagnates and they can't catch with leading megacorporations of the State.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#13 - 2012-10-28 09:56:23 UTC
I would say the true limit to Federal ideals is that the overwhelming majority of the cluster cares not a jot for them.

Must be quite the task then to try and, 'force others to be free' in order to prescribe to them.

No, the only true ideal that drives the Federation is the advancement and protection of its own power, interests and agendas. There is nothing inherently amoral, or out of place in the life of nations in doing so. The point of contention is in the denials that it is not so. The almost laughable concept that Federal industrialists and bankers have a care for such lofty ambitions such as freedom, liberty and humanity and not their own ambitions of power, wealth and prestige.

The lamentable fact of history is that in the end it is they who wield the might of the Federation and not its citizens.

Kurilaivonen|Concern

Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#14 - 2012-10-28 14:31:12 UTC
After reading the OP, I'm actually not sure if she's being serious or if this was meant to be a troll/satire.

Points for that, I guess, but I don't really see the point in going into too much detail how and where I disagree with the contents of the OP - if it's serious, the odds of me changing your view are slim to none, and if it's just a troll, well, that's self-explanatory.

Morwen Lagann

CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar

Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium

Owner, The Golden Masque

Gussarde en Welle
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2012-10-28 23:08:39 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:


Terrorism is just a poor man's war.



Shocked

See, this is exactly the type of stuff I hear out of Caldari nationalists that really upsets me and the biggest reason why I have a hard time seeing Caldari Ideology as rational. They tell me I'm indoctrinated by Federation media because I can't see the value of terrorist attacks on innocent civilian populations.

Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#16 - 2012-10-29 00:17:46 UTC
Gussarde en Welle wrote:
See, this is exactly the type of stuff I hear out of Caldari nationalists that really upsets me and the biggest reason why I have a hard time seeing Caldari Ideology as rational. They tell me I'm indoctrinated by Federation media because I can't see the value of terrorist attacks on innocent civilian populations.


I don't think Kim-haani mentioned attacks against civilians but was perhaps referring to the use of partisan tactics and asymmetric warfare against a numerically and economically superior opponent - tactics which also require the use of psychological warfare in order to demoralize and reduce the will to fight of an enemy. It's certainly not an unsurprising opinion since such a type of warfare was undertaken by Caldari partisan units against the Federal military during the Independence War with success.

The existence of the State and thus history shows that even a poorly equipped and supplied Caldari partisan can triumph over what on paper seems a superior enemy through strength of will, determination, cunning and a better battleplan.

Kurilaivonen|Concern

Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#17 - 2012-10-29 01:03:42 UTC
Ms. Mekahana...please say you're being ironic/satirical?

In which case, it makes this guy's --

Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:
Self-scrutiny is inherent to a democracy, of course. Here, you're talking about thin veils. One can easily be nationalistic about the fact a democracy must be self-aware to progress. Again, that draws people to the Gallentean ideal, to conquer and expand ultimately.


--so utterly, blatantly, missing that even more comical.

If not though, then the chorus-of-approval from him and others like him for something this...shamelessly un-critical and profoundly blinkered...Is just very, very sad.

So which is it, then?

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.

Mekhana
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-10-29 01:38:33 UTC
The mixed reactions I'm getting here are wonderful. And no there aren't my beliefs and they are rather satirical in nature for the most part. However I won't go as far as saying there's not a small amount of truth to it. After all in this harsh world, the means to an end are not important. It is naive to think otherwise.

I do believe the Gallente Federation is an empire at it's core that is not afraid to project soft and hard power. What we can not outright destroy will be assimilated into us. Like I said before, that's just how things are meant to be.

Vide longe er eros di Luminaire VII, uni canse pra krage e determiniex! Sange por Sange! Descanse bravex eros, mie freires. Mortir por vostre Liberete, farmilie, ide e amis. lons Proviste sen mort! Luminaire liber mas! 

Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#19 - 2012-10-29 02:19:08 UTC
Ah, good.

Just checking, as some hereabouts take themselves much too seriously. (Come on people, it's just a Neo-Com uplink. Not worth your sense of humour, now is it?)

The best satire is that which contains the largest grains of truth.

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.

Gussarde en Welle
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2012-10-29 02:51:09 UTC
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:


I don't think Kim-haani mentioned attacks against civilians but was perhaps referring to the use of partisan tactics and asymmetric warfare against a numerically and economically superior opponent - tactics which also require the use of psychological warfare in order to demoralize and reduce the will to fight of an enemy.



With all due respect, Gesakaarin-haani, if you are referring to suicide and surprise attacks on civilian patrol ships, unarmed academies, offworld training sites and system border outposts, I think most non-Caldari would call that terrorism. Those are places populated by unarmed civilians or police. I'm trying to eschew sophistry here.
Let me conclude with the remark that I don't want to get into an argument with either you or Kim-haani about the Secession war.




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