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So What does being Minmatar mean these days?
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Saede Riordan
Alexylva Paradox
#41 - 2012-10-15 01:37:44 UTC
To some degree she's actually correct Shiroh. As far as upbringing is concerned, I don't feel any particular connection to the inherent 'minmatarness' of something. My clan has its traditions, which are matari traditions, thus we largely consider ourselves Matari, though I quite doubt its exactly the same matari that the Republicans consider themselves. So from their perspective, we are not minmatar at all anymore, much like the Ammatar, we're some evil twisted version of minmatar, using their rituals for dark purposes. I sort of like that styling.

Fear and Loathing in Internet Spaceships
Kalaratiri
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#42 - 2012-10-15 15:53:06 UTC
Jara Blackwind wrote:
Angels are slavers. You support Angels, you support the slavery, and your blood or your political concerns or that you don't like Shakor or the Krusuals or whoever else don't matter anymore. It's the line.


Shiroh Yatamii wrote:
Not everyone in the Cartel is in the slave trading industry. It's a personal business decision undertaken by individuals. Do not assume out-of-hand that anyone is participating in it just because they support the Cartel.



I think here, you missed her point.


It doesn't matter if not everyone in the Cartel is involved in the slave trade. The fact that some of them are makes them all responsible, by association if nothing else. If you are a non-slaving Cartel member, but you defend a Cartel member who is a slaver, you are just as guilty as they are.

She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire.

This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums.  - CCP Falcon

I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim
Shiroh Yatamii
Alexylva Paradox
#43 - 2012-10-15 16:25:01 UTC
It sounds to me like a lot of Minmatar capsuleers define "being Minmatar" as being "anti-slavery" rather than defining their own cultural identity. Seems kind of half-baked and unrefined. A society cannot survive off of "Freedom!!!" alone. You cannot eat freedom. I'm sure some of you would simply say "better to die of starvation and be free than be enslaved". But if that really happened to each and every single Republic citizen, you really wouldn't be free, would you? No, you'd be too busy being dead to be free.

A society needs a healthy mix of freedom and practicality in order to survive.
Kalaratiri
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#44 - 2012-10-15 16:33:48 UTC
Shiroh Yatamii wrote:
It sounds to me like a lot of Minmatar capsuleers define "being Minmatar" as being "anti-slavery" rather than defining their own cultural identity. Seems kind of half-baked and unrefined. A society cannot survive off of "Freedom!!!" alone. You cannot eat freedom. I'm sure some of you would simply say "better to die of starvation and be free than be enslaved". But if that really happened to each and every single Republic citizen, you really wouldn't be free, would you? No, you'd be too busy being dead to be free.

A society needs a healthy mix of freedom and practicality in order to survive.



You're absolutely right.

But you know what a really good way to get people united towards a single goal, such as food production, is?

You give them a concept they can all relate to and believe in.

She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire.

This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums.  - CCP Falcon

I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim
Horak Thor
Angry Mustellid
#45 - 2012-10-15 17:27:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Horak Thor
Saede Riordan wrote:
Honestly, much of the whole 'we are all brothers and sisters' thing I see seems more like propaganda of the Republic clans then anything else.


For me Matari may aswell mean one of the people.

You are part of a whole, a part of a long history and one strand in the collective fabric of the people.

So to call yourself Matari because you carry out some old tradition's etc mean's you are missing the entire point, you are an outsider looking in, you can call yourself Minmatar but never feel Matari.

I dont know much about you so would rather avoid jumping on the bandwagon, but if you support the cartel, who make a decent living of off selling Matari slave's, then you stand directly aposed to the Matari people.

Then again the turbulent times have left some of the outer rim worlds vulnerable, so i cannot completely condemn some turning to whatever protection or lively hood they needed to survive (excluding slavery which should be ingrained in our bones to hate), to then attack and cause the death of other innocent Matari? that is inexcusable.

I do not believe nor voted for our current political system, never forget your heritage or your bond of blood, you may not believe in the Republic but this is just a political system/ form of government, the Minmatar are much more than that. the Ushra'Khan Epitomized this when they struck out on there own, against the republic, For the People, although we also at one point lost our way.

.....
kraiklyn Asatru
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#46 - 2012-10-15 19:37:08 UTC  |  Edited by: kraiklyn Asatru
As my brother here states, being Matari is more then blood or culture, it is a state of mind. As the Amarr should be the first to realize. Out of all the peoples and races you have enslaved, how many have resisted you like th matari, none of them.
Even fifth generation matari do not except your rule, you are required to drug them out of their minds, you claim divinity but are nothing but raping slavers. Worst is you even try to deny it to yourselves. Self induced dellusions of moral righteousness, if you cared about. Matari and their salvation you would not be drugging them from a young age.
At the end of the line you are drugging my relatives, raping them systematically and working them to death. An empire build on blood and torture. We of Ushra'khan will do what we can to stop you no matter what it takes. To many we are terrorists, but all we do, we do for our people. Our people. The blood of Matari children covers the hands of the amarr, diplomacy hasnt worked, CONCORD has already chosen their side, our republic is weak but without violence we would not even have that. We have a moral obligation to fight untill every Matari has been freed and not to get lazy or complacent with our freedom or we would lose it again. Just take the race traitor Saede as an example, we realize that the laws in eve are broken, but the Angels crossed all borders when they started selling their own people for profit. I killed one of your own recently at the raid of a minmatar outpost. Realize that I will not hasitate to kill you if I run into you while are plying your trade.

As to what it means to be Matari, that is different for everyone. That feeling you get when you look at your child. The elder who smacks you on the head for being a putz, immortal or not. The people who will share their food with you regardless of whether they have enough. The tribesman you run in to on the far edge of space and who you end up drinking with the whole night and who doesnt stab you in the back after you passout. The brother who flies next to you and who responds to your call for help in the dead cold of space.

That is what being Matari is.

Doing any thing we can to liberate our tribes is not something we consiously decided, it is but second nature. We wouldn't have it any other way, to give up is to stop being.
The blood i do not relish but comes with the territory. Unlike the Amarr I would never torture the children I kill, but I regret every one of them, who have fallen to the khumaak. If it wasnt for the selfrighteous of those who claim an empty faith
Shiroh Yatamii
Alexylva Paradox
#47 - 2012-10-17 03:48:11 UTC
Kalaratiri wrote:



You're absolutely right.

But you know what a really good way to get people united towards a single goal, such as food production, is?

You give them a concept they can all relate to and believe in.


I would hope most people don't need some abstract concept simply to get things done, particularly things beneficial to their survival. I believe the average person is smarter than that. Government propaganda and ideological claptrap have gone a long way in making a lot of people blind, unfortunately.
Da Dom
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#48 - 2012-10-28 01:26:12 UTC
Well I have stumbled into an interesting conversation that, In my opinion, is based on nothing but old stories that you people cling to for whatever reason suits your egos.

To answer your question Constantly Outraged Sebiestor, it means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!

We are NOT minmatar. These clones may be, but we are all from the race known as capsuleers. An infomorphic society that has more in common with the ancient sleepers than it does with any other race in New Eden. So lets all just cool our heads, take a step back and see the petty politics and tradtions of the "mortals" for what they truly are. Stories within OUR galaxy....

I hope that answers your question

Because Far-que... That's why.
Ava Starfire
Khushakor Clan
#49 - 2012-10-28 14:20:37 UTC
Every time I see non-Matari arguing over how someone or other dosent know what "being Matari means" I lose a little more faith in humans as an intelligent species.

That makes about as much damn sense as me arguing with a mushroom about the challenges of being a mushroom.

"There is no strength in numbers; have no such misconception." -Jayka Vofur, "Warfare in the North"
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#50 - 2012-10-28 15:52:39 UTC
Ava Starfire wrote:
Every time I see non-Matari arguing over how someone or other dosent know what "being Matari means" I lose a little more faith in humans as an intelligent species.

That makes about as much damn sense as me arguing with a mushroom about the challenges of being a mushroom.


Hence why I've not weighed in on the subject. The best I've got is a Caldari take on the subject, not exactly the same thing. This is one of those few areas where I'm smart enough to withhold my opinion until asked for it.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#51 - 2012-10-28 21:17:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarryn Nightstorm
Da Dom wrote:
Well I have stumbled into an interesting conversation that, In my opinion, is based on nothing but old stories that you people cling to for whatever reason suits your egos.

To answer your question Constantly Outraged Sebiestor, it means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!

We are NOT minmatar. These clones may be, but we are all from the race known as capsuleers. An infomorphic society that has more in common with the ancient sleepers than it does with any other race in New Eden. So lets all just cool our heads, take a step back and see the petty politics and tradtions of the "mortals" for what they truly are. Stories within OUR galaxy....

I hope that answers your question



Podders are not a "race," mate.

[cynicism]

That some of us delude ourselves into thinking so is very much a thing of the Human race, though!

[/cynicism]

We are nothing but tools, optimised for a purpose, and the only thing that makes us --some of us, anyway-- better than that is all those "petty politics and traditions of the 'mortals'" that we once were, and in all too many of the wrong ways, still are.

Remaining "grounded," as it were --and having a social structure, family/tribe/clan, or even just a bunch of friends to ensure you stay that way (not least of all the aforementioned Elder who gives you a good backhand for being a prat, even though you're a BIG BAD DEMIGOD(TM). Thankfully, as far as she's concerned, you're still just being a prat, and that's enough for her.) that is a critical aspect of being Matarri.

Arguably, it's what helps make, but more importantly, keeps us, us.

(That Elder, I think you should go have a...talk...with her, by the way.)

E:

You're not advocating "cooling" our heads, bru, you're wanting us to inflate them. Another thing of Matarr to me is, that that sort of thing is --and should be-- frowned upon, and to be called out harshly when it happens for reasons that should go without saying.

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#52 - 2012-10-29 07:46:08 UTC
N'maro Makari wrote:
I like to make the distinction between being ethnically Minmatar, just being born qualifies you here, and being culturally Minmatar, which involved being a member of a tribe and clan and earning your position within them.


We citizens of the Ammatar Mandate wholeheartedly agree.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Da Dom
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#53 - 2012-10-29 17:50:50 UTC
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:
Podders are not a "race," mate.


And a slaver hound is not a Yetamo.

Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:
[cynicism]

That some of us delude ourselves into thinking so is very much a thing of the Human race, though!

[/cynicism]


Trapped by reality, freed by imagination

Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:
We are nothing but tools, optimised for a purpose, and the only thing that makes us --some of us, anyway-- better than that is all those "petty politics and traditions of the 'mortals'" that we once were, and in all too many of the wrong ways, still are.


No, that just makes us better tools...

Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:
Remaining "grounded," as it were --and having a social structure, family/tribe/clan, or even just a bunch of friends to ensure you stay that way (not least of all the aforementioned Elder who gives you a good backhand for being a prat, even though you're a BIG BAD DEMIGOD(TM). Thankfully, as far as she's concerned, you're still just being a prat, and that's enough for her.) that is a critical aspect of being Matarri.

Arguably, it's what helps make, but more importantly, keeps us, us.


By "grounded" you mean "chained" right? And by "keeps us, us" you mean a sterile seed that never grows, right?

Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:
E:

You're not advocating "cooling" our heads, bru, you're wanting us to inflate them. Another thing of Matarr to me is, that that sort of thing is --and should be-- frowned upon, and to be called out harshly when it happens for reasons that should go without saying.


Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? You are a child of God. Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you. We are all meant to shine, as children do. We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us. It is not just in some of us; it is in everyone. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others

Because Far-que... That's why.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#54 - 2012-10-30 22:47:07 UTC
Da Dom wrote:
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:
Podders are not a "race," mate.


And a slaver hound is not a Yetamo.


Ladies and gentlemen, a non sequitur in its natural habitat.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
Dame Death
Black Aces
Goonswarm Federation
#55 - 2012-10-31 11:07:12 UTC
I see IGS hasnt changed.
von Khan
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#56 - 2012-10-31 21:12:36 UTC  |  Edited by: von Khan
Interesting read, thanks

von Khan
Dolm Velith
Velith Family Productions
#57 - 2012-11-11 03:42:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Dolm Velith
As the eldest of my clan, as a keep of the oldest stories and an elder of my tribe I must point out that to be Matari is to be something intentionally hidden from the eyes of the outsider, something they can NOT possibly understand nor should they be allowed to. To be Matari is to be a chosen and a chooser, the independent masters of a collective fate. To KNOW with perfect certainty that despite light years and long years of separation that my children and their children, my cousins and their children, my bothers and sisters both blood of my blood and blood of my choice all seek a single goal. This is what it is to be Matari of the Velith clan of the Vherokior tribe.
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#58 - 2012-11-11 12:34:19 UTC
kraiklyn Asatru wrote:
Even fifth generation matari do not except your rule,


Oh really? Check a map sometime. Look south.


kraiklyn Asatru wrote:
you are required to drug them out of their minds, you claim divinity but are nothing but raping slavers.


Odd, the only time I was ever drugged was when I was "conscripted" by Matari "freedom fighters."


kraiklyn Asatru wrote:
Worst is you even try to deny it to yourselves. Self induced dellusions of moral righteousness,


Kettle, pot, black.


kraiklyn Asatru wrote:
At the end of the line you are drugging my relatives, raping them systematically and working them to death.


Our family gardener is sipping tea and snickering at that, the adorable old geezer that he is.


kraiklyn Asatru wrote:
An empire build on blood and torture.


Kettle, pot, black.






http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#59 - 2012-11-11 12:35:15 UTC
kraiklyn Asatru wrote:
We of Ushra'khan will do what we can to stop you no matter what it takes.


*As long as it doesn't involve peace, because there is no room for such an idea in your culture.


kraiklyn Asatru wrote:
To many we are terrorists, but all we do, we do for our people. Our people.


400 years and 20 generations later and you still call them "your" people. This is funny. I asked old Hanzo if he'd like to emigrate back to the Republic. He laughed again and said "I grew up here, not there. This is my home." He also told me about his grandson winning a scholarship at a local university. That pleased me to hear - that's exactly how my own family exited from bondage several generations back.


kraiklyn Asatru wrote:
The blood of Matari children covers the hands of the amarr, diplomacy hasnt worked,


HA! If diplomacy hasn't worked, who's fault is that? Of course it doesn't work - you don't want it to. Peace is poison to the Republic.


kraiklyn Asatru wrote:
CONCORD has already chosen their side,


Yes, when you attacked them.


kraiklyn Asatru wrote:
our republic is weak but without violence we would not even have that.


That much is true... more than you know. Violence is the only thing that holds it together.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#60 - 2012-11-11 12:36:08 UTC
kraiklyn Asatru wrote:
We have a moral obligation to fight untill every Matari has been freed and not to get lazy or complacent with our freedom or we would lose it again.


Good, go unlock every prison cell of every deranged convict in the Republic. This should be amusing.

And who is going to take your freedom away? Unlike some people, the Amarr respect CONCORD and their decisions.


kraiklyn Asatru wrote:
Just take the race traitor Saede as an example,


Race traitor? I've heard that term used before in certain chapters of Terran History, most often being applied to those who married people of different skin color. I found the chapter... interesting, and reminiscent of the time in which I was forced to live in Republic space. Tribe this, bloodline that. They all just looked like humans to me, but apparently the Matari see the Universe differently.


kraiklyn Asatru wrote:
we realize that the laws in eve are broken, but the Angels crossed all borders when they started selling their own people for profit. I killed one of your own recently at the raid of a minmatar outpost. Realize that I will not hasitate to kill you if I run into you while are plying your trade.


And what you do to terrorists in Minmatar space is your own space is your own business. We have no love of pirates either, no matter what their particular faction affiliation.


kraiklyn Asatru wrote:
As to what it means to be Matari, that is different for everyone.


Although it usually just boils down to "Hate Amarr."


kraiklyn Asatru wrote:
That feeling you get when you look at your child. The elder who smacks you on the head for being a putz, immortal or not. The people who will share their food with you regardless of whether they have enough. The tribesman you run in to on the far edge of space and who you end up drinking with the whole night and who doesnt stab you in the back after you passout. The brother who flies next to you and who responds to your call for help in the dead cold of space.


The feeling you get when you enlist your child into the military at the age of twelve. The elder who beats you senseless for deviating from tribal doctrine. The people who steal your food because you're from a different bloodline. The tribesman who nicks your purse when you're not looking. The brother who was gunned down by "freedom fighters" when they were trying to kidnap you from your home because someone in your family tree from four hundred years ago just happened to be from a world now claimed by the Republic. That was the second time I ever heard the phrase "race traitor" used.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0