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CCP allow miners to defend against bumpers ?

Author
Max Doobie
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#441 - 2012-10-27 19:03:23 UTC
These type of people have a very....rapish mentality. It's very disturbing.

Why do you folks get such a kick out of trying to force someone to play your way? Why do you get such a kick from ruining someone else's' game experience? If a person wants to pay to AFK, what's it to you dude?

Folks who want to ban gay marriage, keep Weed illegal, etc....people who for some reason LIVE to tell others how to live.

"bumping" is not a legit playstyle. It's griefing plain and simple. You people basically pay to irritate people. Get a girlfriend maybe? Some RL friends?

I try to understand the underlying cause of things, rather than simply the surface which is why I'm trying to understand why some pvpers are so bothered by how hi0sec folks chose to play. What drives these obnoxious people who embrace invasiveness?

Why is my neighbor calling the cops on me because she saw me smoking a blunt on my own porch and it offended HER religious views, so she thinks I should be arrested, even though what I'm doing in no way affects her?


Why can't these folks just leave people the f**k alone dude? I simply don't get it. They won't rest until everyone does things their way, and they will yell, scream, annoy and irritate until it happens.

DOOBAY!
Viktor Fel
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#442 - 2012-10-27 19:50:30 UTC
Quote:
These type of people have a very....rapish mentality. It's very disturbing.


Your opinion, one I, and many others do not agree with. Also how do you justify equating bumping pixels against pixels to forced sexual penetration of another person? Isn't that rather insensitive for a person who claims concern and worry over others?

Quote:
Why do you folks get such a kick out of trying to force someone to play your way? Why do you get such a kick from ruining someone else's' game experience? If a person wants to pay to AFK, what's it to you dude?


Crush your enemies, see them driven before you and to hear the lamentations of the capsuleers!

We used to make income with ransoming, piracy in general, etc. That was until most of EVE space became 1.0 with slightly tougher belt rats. The tear harvesting market has changed over the years and as such, we pirates, privateers and scoundrels have had to change with it. We are simply following good sense by adjusting the way we do business.

What is the point of even playing EVE online if you are not really playing at all? Did you ever think of the people who actually do play and how they think and feel when they actually put time and effort into something for months and years only to see some script running AFK mining trash not even playing the game get the same and more from the game?

Poor argument is poor as the proverbial coin may easily be flipped on such situations. What are you trying to say here? That we are all members of the US Republican Party as well? What a silly argument. Also a pointless argument.

Quote:

"bumping" is not a legit playstyle. It's griefing plain and simple. You people basically pay to irritate people. Get a girlfriend maybe? Some RL friends?


I would argue that bumping an ransoming is just as legitimate as any other play style by using your logic above. Another poor assumption; that simply because a person enjoys or sees fit to partake in a certain aspect of the game they must have no life. Old failed argument is old.

Quote:
I try to understand the underlying cause of things, rather than simply the surface which is why I'm trying to understand why some pvpers are so bothered by how hi0sec folks chose to play. What drives these obnoxious people who embrace invasiveness?


If you tried to understand why this happens clearly you failed. There are a myriad of reasons why this happens. I know that one carebear trash associate I know of that is a miner bumps miners who she thinks are AFK/BOTS because she sees them as annoying toolbags who don't really put any effort into the game. Oxygen thieves if you will, sucking up rocks and flooding the markets with zero risk and zero time invested.


Quote:
Why can't these folks just leave people the f**k alone dude? I simply don't get it. They won't rest until everyone does things their way, and they will yell, scream, annoy and irritate until it happens.



Yarrr!!!PiratePiratePiratePiratePiratePiratePiratePiratePiratePirate
Hecate Shaw
United Freemerchants Society
#443 - 2012-10-27 20:24:02 UTC
No one gets it, do they? James315 has created the ultimate scam, and because he packaged it in a way the gankers would swallow whole, it is likely to become one of the best-paying scams of all time!

He says point blank in his manifesto that he will defend gankers, not miners, even the ones who pay. So, for 10 million isk each, the miners get exactly...nothing. Are all of his agents actually given a list of every miner who has paid and thus should be allowed to mine bump-free? Congrats, the gankers have just been handed a list of miners who will likely feel safe and might have no tank to speak of, and where they tend to mine. If not, then what exactly has that 10 million done for them? Bought them a promise that James will not bump them...for a time...unless he feels like he wants to (which is also stated on his site). At the keyboard or not, you are fair game. So in the end, each of those 10m "permits" is pure profit for which he has to do *nothing*!

Better still, he has enough charisma, writing skills, or just plain shutzpa to con other players (mostly gankers) into becoming "shareholders" and hand over MASSIVE amounts of isk. In return for this they get...lulz. James315 pockets all of it, with next to no expenses on his part for the whole scam (barring a world of hate and likely some harassment in game).

In the end, all I can say is that James315 has my admiration and congratulations. I tip my pixels to you for dreaming up one of the most entertaining scams I've ever seen. That's all you're getting though, James, because I don't give money to scammers.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#444 - 2012-10-27 21:00:47 UTC
Hecate Shaw wrote:
He says point blank in his manifesto that he will defend gankers, not miners, even the ones who pay. So, for 10 million isk each, the miners get exactly...nothing. Are all of his agents actually given a list of every miner who has paid and thus should be allowed to mine bump-free? Congrats, the gankers have just been handed a list of miners who will likely feel safe and might have no tank to speak of, and where they tend to mine.


I grant you that's another potentially positve outcome from all this.

Max Doobie wrote:
"bumping" is not a legit playstyle. It's griefing plain and simple.


The GMs quite rightly spank griefers. You should petition if you have been griefed, but I would personally prefer you don't clog up the system with complaints about EULA-permissible activities, such as bumping.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff

Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#445 - 2012-10-27 21:01:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Touval Lysander
Any of the anti-bumping brigade worked out that the louder they scream the more likely they'll ADD traction to bumping and make it WORSE?

No? Carry on...

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."

admiral root
Red Galaxy
#446 - 2012-10-27 21:15:47 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:
Any of the anti-bumping brigade worked out that the louder they scream the more likely they'll ADD traction to bumping and make it WORSE?


True story. I only joined in the fun after I saw thsi thread.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff

Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#447 - 2012-10-27 21:34:23 UTC
Tali Ambraelle, I'm genuinely curious. How long are you prepared to wait for Superman to come save you? You keep saying "soon" we'll be "pushed out", is that like Soon™? If the next expansion following Retribution comes and goes and CCP still won't fight your battles for you, then what? Two more expansions, still nothing? How long exactly are you willing to wait? How long before you give up and unsub? If not unsub, will you actually stick up for yourself like a man? (Kinda doubt it.)

Gotta say I laughed pretty good when you said something like: "How do you know I haven't been playing just as long as you?" You see, it's obvious to us that you must be relatively new, because your whole gaming philosophy is completely not EVE. In fact, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say you got your gaming philosphy from the children's game World of Warcraft. Did you not?

Honest answer, you played WoW before EVE, yes or no?


(There's your problem Mack. You got used to games for kids, where if someone isn't playing nice you go and tattle. Where there's something called "PVP servers" (my eyes go cross at the thought), you see, this here is for grown-ups.)

Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com

Zero Audier
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#448 - 2012-10-27 21:48:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Zero Audier
Arduemont wrote:
Start a crusade to add massive bounties to their corporations.

Post in local, send mails to other Industrial corps. Every little helps.

In Eve you are significantly more powerful than you think you are. Wait a couple of weeks, infiltrate their corp with a couple of friends and then gank them the next time one undocks in their most expensive PvE ship. Don't whine about it, do something.


Don't act like that was the most original idea ever:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGplrpWvz0I

Now onto the topic.

Simple sollution. Make a high slot module that puts up a bubble around you that no other ship can enter. Takes cap to use, and takes a massive amount of cpu. Price of ore will go up because less will be able to be mined because of different fits, and you bumpers can bump the people that deside not to put one on (90% of em don't fit a tank, why would they put this on?). Now there is a counter, so they can't whine anymore, and when they do, you can just do the same thing any low/null sec ganker does when a barge they destroy didn't have a tank. Call them a noob, laugh at them when they whine, and move on.

EDIT: Put the module on a titan, then lol as ships have to fly all the way around you (bubble is porportional to ship size).
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#449 - 2012-10-27 21:57:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Touval Lysander
Galaxy Pig wrote:
Tali Ambraelle, I'm genuinely curious. How long are you prepared to wait for Superman to come save you? You keep saying "soon" we'll be "pushed out", is that like Soon™? If the next expansion following Retribution comes and goes and CCP still won't fight your battles for you, then what?

Honest answer, you played WoW before EVE, yes or no?

Actually to be fair. Apart from running away or conducting a gank there isn't a counter to bumping. I'm not going to argue whether it's right or wrong, just stating obvious.

Bumping is free. Stopping it is not (apart from moving - we know that). And it adds nothing to the economy making it a rather benign act.

That's not right.

CCP can only make a EULA call when bumping turns to griefing (and I've explained how that's possible)

or they need an anchor mod/collision system (w/e) so bumping itself carries intrinsic risk or it becomes pointless.


And for the record, I've never played Wow so is my commentary now more true because of it? Bit silly really.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#450 - 2012-10-28 00:58:21 UTC
Galaxy Pig wrote:
Tali Ambraelle, I'm genuinely curious. How long are you prepared to wait for Superman to come save you? You keep saying "soon" we'll be "pushed out", is that like Soon™? If the next expansion following Retribution comes and goes and CCP still won't fight your battles for you, then what? Two more expansions, still nothing? How long exactly are you willing to wait? How long before you give up and unsub? If not unsub, will you actually stick up for yourself like a man? (Kinda doubt it.)

You really think CCP will leave them out in the cold that long?

These are MINERS you're talking about. I wouldn't think it takes them that long to think of a hamfisted way to nerf bumpers.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#451 - 2012-10-28 04:53:31 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
But you do win by not playing... that's what all the bittervets say...

lol you'll be getting a failheap challenge forum account next

What's failheap challenge?


It's where bitter-vets go to be bitter, got a hell of a pony thread as well

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#452 - 2012-10-28 04:56:05 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
But you do win by not playing... that's what all the bittervets say...

lol you'll be getting a failheap challenge forum account next

What's failheap challenge?

It's where bitter-vets go to be bitter, got a hell of a pony thread as well

...

Let me go get some Inferno Torpedos, gonna need some fire to deal with this.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#453 - 2012-10-28 04:59:33 UTC
lol

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Tactical Farmers
#454 - 2012-10-28 05:02:26 UTC
Miners make me think of piglets because of the squealing! Make me wonder if miners would make good bacon?

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#455 - 2012-10-28 05:15:32 UTC
Alpheias wrote:
Miners make me think of piglets because of the squealing! Make me wonder if miners would make good bacon?


Too much fat, not enough muscle.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#456 - 2012-10-28 07:11:06 UTC
Shalua Rui wrote:
...one word: collisions... problem solved. Blink


This. Collision damage would not only be more realistic, it would be a good agro trigger.

I would also make the Iteron useful... that big hammerhead-styled front looks dangerous sometimes Lol

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#457 - 2012-10-28 08:29:12 UTC
Tali Ambraelle wrote:
James 315 wrote:
Tali Ambraelle wrote:
James 315 wrote:
In all seriousness though, there are plenty of ways to defend against bumpers. Go mine in low/null and shoot them. Smile


In all seriousness though, no. They don't want to because they don't want to be interrupted in THEIR game play style. Whether shooting or bumping. Your logic is wrong. Smile

Why should my game play style be interrupted then, pray tell? Smile


Because your game play style was not being interrupted by miners. You're simply annoying people. That's not game play, that's undesirable behavior. Smile


Your PLAY STYLE is not above his, there is no part of EULA that says that by paying your sub to CCP you can mine in peace. It gives you monthly access to a sandbox-style virtual universe.

I know you are just a troll, but just in case someone reads the thread and accidentally agrees with you.

.

Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#458 - 2012-10-28 10:36:17 UTC
admiral root wrote:

The GMs quite rightly spank griefers. You should petition if you have been griefed, but I would personally prefer you don't clog up the system with complaints about EULA-permissible activities, such as bumping.


Subjective Grief Play description ....
Even the Specific is just an example.




Theres a lot of room in that paragraph for indiscrete interpretation ... something that some people tend to abuse.
Nanatoa
#459 - 2012-10-28 12:02:54 UTC
LOL

Max Doobie wrote:
Why do you folks get such a kick out of trying to force someone to play your way? Why do you get such a kick from ruining someone else's' game experience? If a person wants to pay to AFK, what's it to you dude?


and

Max Doobie wrote:
"bumping" is not a legit playstyle.


in the same post. Awesome. Apparently the definition of a sandbox is "We can do what we like but you can't do what you like."

"Stay the course, we have done this many times before." - (CCP) Hilmar, June 2011

TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#460 - 2012-10-28 12:54:16 UTC
Tali Ambraelle wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
I do not see an issue with James and his New Order extending their actions to bot/afk sympathisers and other undesirables.

Your definition of sympathizer is anyone who mines actively as a legitimate career.

Quote:
While you are certainly allowed to mine your rocks and even defend your fellow desirables under the EULA/TOS/whatever, James and the New Order are equally allowed to disrupt it. That is the sandbox. That is EVE.

except when there's no in game mechanic to defend against it, such as a space anchor. If that existed, we wouldn't even be talking.

Quote:
In this thread we have even discussed the tactics and mechanics available to you to deal with James and the New Order, but you seem to refuse to attempt any of them, citing the "difficulty" or "cost" of pursuing such avenues of defense or retaliation.

Please show how war deccing 12 different corps is feasible for a few small time miners with a tiny budget for anything.

Quote:
It is a shame that you let your own vices (greed, laziness) further disrupt your actions.

It is a shame that you let your own vices (wrath, trolling) further disrupt your logic.


We've already been over the various mechanics there are to defend/retaliate against it. When you say there is no mechanic to counter it, what you really mean is "there is no mechanic that I am willing to spend the isk or effort on". There's a big difference.