These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Lost in Space....Transporting Strategies.
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#21 - 2012-10-27 09:16:17 UTC
Thanks for the input Doddy, it's good to know that my assumptions were pretty close to the mark, I tend to never move more than 100mill in a hauler anyway, any more than that I use Pushx or Redfrog because of the collateral.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Jesuis Cache-Cache
#22 - 2012-10-27 09:22:28 UTC
What about this thing of putting a container inside a container?

I remember reading somewhere that the cargo scanners couldn't read past 2 layers.

"I know a man who gave up smoking, drinking, sex, and rich food. He was healthy right up to the time he killed himself." - Johnny Carson 
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#23 - 2012-10-27 09:35:29 UTC
Jesuis Cache-Cache wrote:
The support from some of you people is overwhelmingly...supportive.Big smile

She will be in a spanking new Badger II. I am content on tanking it out, even with the MWD/Cloak. Over the past half hr I have pondered over hundreds of mods. and this is what I have so far...I am on a roll, I tell ya!

[Badger Mark II]

[empty low slot]
[empty low slot]
[empty low slot]

1MN MicroWarpdrive I
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]

Improved Cloaking Device II
[empty high slot]




I'd say get rid of the cloak-MWD trick in high-sec. Not really needed if you properly tank the **** out of your industrial, just stay alive long enough for CONCORD to do their job.

Example of an ASB tanked Badger.

[Badger Mark II, OWN - Tanked Badger II]

280mm 'Scout' Artillery I (Fusion S)

2x Medium Shield Extender II
2x Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Medium Ancillary Shield Booster (Cap Booster 50)
Shield Boost Amplifier II

Damage Control II
Power Diagnostic System II
Capacitor Power Relay II

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
2x Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

All level 5 skill stats:

Shield resists: 62/73/77/64
EHP: 17.082 EVE / 20268 EVEHQ (EVE takes lowest resist, EVEHQ takes the avg of all 4 resists).
Tank ability: 301 DPS

Cap: Stable with the Cap Booster 50 ammo at 64%

DPS: 17 DPS but that's just for KM whoring.

Speed: 180 m/s
Warp align time: 11.75s

Cargosize: 6562 m3 - more then enough, if you need to go bigger, go Orca or Freighter for bit more safety.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#24 - 2012-10-27 09:47:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
I'd only thought of using ASBs for baiting, as a survival technique they should work pretty well. Thanks for the enlightenment on that J'Poll I learnt something new, that's what I like about NCQA, even older players can learn new stuff from others helping out the newbies.

Some of the new newbs are asking questions I would have never thought of, or was too scared to ask in the old forums because people would have lol'd and probably fed me misinformation.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Jesuis Cache-Cache
#25 - 2012-10-27 09:56:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Jesuis Cache-Cache
[Badger Mark II, Bad]
Reinforced Bulkheads II
Reinforced Bulkheads II
Damage Control II

Medium Shield Extender II
Medium Shield Extender II
Medium Shield Extender II
Medium Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
EM Ward Amplifier II

[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

I looked at this while the other post were coming in. This will fit out at a total investment of 48m. That includes the ship. Not that ISK is any issue, as it's all insurance anyway.P

Still, if gets her skills up this will EHP at 31k+ that is given all skills. At no skills it comes in at 24k+. The real issue is getting the Power Grid to work at low skills. She just hasn't put in enough time to cover most of this....Yet.

Operating the DC should not be an issue. At gate cloak, she can align (or Jump..I guess) and have DC up before the gate cloak drops, That should take her to a straight jump through the other gate. Or I guess even better...hit a safe spot placed in each system and THEN jump.

The build suggestions coming are most welcomed. I can't begin to express enough gratitude. It really gives me something to work towards in 'Gank" prevention. If there is such a thing...I guess the better term would be gank deterrent.


EDIT :

Actually, I should give thanks to the Ganker...I don't remember his name...I doubt he remembered hers...Big smile

I have learned more in the past few hrs than I have in days. It's too bad he broke even on that...I fell bad for him...P

EDIT 2 :

If I replace the Medium Core DFE Is, with IIs. The EHP goes to 34,389. However, that puts the total ship package at 189m. Still 11m ISK shy of what I initially guessed.

"I know a man who gave up smoking, drinking, sex, and rich food. He was healthy right up to the time he killed himself." - Johnny Carson 
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#26 - 2012-10-27 10:11:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Your ganker was WaveDragon send him an evemail and thank him P

I read Doddys feedback on my fit and he's dead right about the reinforced bulkheads slowing you down, you can use Power Diagnostic Systems to get an increase in powergrid, cap recharge and shield recharge so give those a try in place of the reinforced bulkheads, you lose some ehp but gain in other areas. Your fit takes me 4% over on powergrid, the Power Diagnostics give you that little bit extra to make it all go on.

[Badger Mark II, Not So Bad]

4x Medium Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
EM Ward Amplifier II

2x Power Diagnostic System II
Damage Control II

3x Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

All skills 5 (no overheat, I'm assuming your alt hasn't trained Thermodynamics (do it, its well handy for when you need that little extra)
Eve EHP 25144
EveHQ EHP 31796
166 DPS omni tank

If you have trouble fitting it swap the t2 extenders for Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Inductions as they use less less powergrid, less CPU and perform nearly as well as the t2 items

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Jesuis Cache-Cache
#27 - 2012-10-27 10:22:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Jesuis Cache-Cache
[Badger Mark II, Better]
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II
Damage Control II

Medium Shield Extender II
Medium Shield Extender II
Medium Shield Extender II
Medium Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
EM Ward Amplifier II

[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II

With all of those at T2, it shows the EHP @ 35,392

AT 11.7s and warp in 12s. Max Vel 180. I like it.Big smile


EDIT :

The email...that is great. I think I shall. I spoke with him right after the deal went down. I had to laugh...He said..

"I think you're an Alt character of a seasoned player" ( I guess because of the large cargo worth in a two week old character..)

I told him.."If I was seasoned. You would not have got me." I fell out...

"I know a man who gave up smoking, drinking, sex, and rich food. He was healthy right up to the time he killed himself." - Johnny Carson 
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#28 - 2012-10-27 10:48:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Always make a point of asking a ganker what you could have done to avoid exploding, many will be happy to give you advice on fittings etc, others will just giggle Pirate

That's a pretty chunk of change you're planning on spending lol, I still don't use t2 rigs because I can't be arsed to train for them and I think that they cost too much.

If you ever find you have trouble fitting T2 stuff look at the meta 3&4 stuff, it often performs nearly as well and isn't so heavy on your fitting skills, afterburners are a prime example, the meta 3 ones cost less than the T2, often use the same PG as the T1 and you don't lose much in performance compared to the T2

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Jesuis Cache-Cache
#29 - 2012-10-27 11:12:42 UTC
During the convo, he said that he would have still ganked me anyway. As he can lock in 0.4 sec. However, he did continue to add that had I been cloaked, he would have not been able to do it.

That still plays through my head. I mean, I know everyone is suggesting a tank over stealth, but the only way you will get pinched is if you are uncloaked. And in hisec...how will that happen? How often are you uncloaked out of gate cloak? Compared to how many times you could be targeted from being wide open to start with.

If they have nothing to target they have nothing to shoot. And using a safespot between gates will be better than an all out gate to gate run...Would it not?

She is training for those skills anyway and it would drastically cut down on train time compared to prepping for a tank.

I posted in another thread about not worrying what is on that damn local and never opening it up. To play the same way in 1.0 as you would play in 0.0. I have failed horribly and let myself down and my Alt, by not adhering to standards that I set out to uphold.

Had she actually been implementing these counter measures of total avoidance and proceeded through the route like every gate was camped with 12 bubbles and fleets of death. None of this would have happened in the first place.

Again, for the realization of not doing what I was supposed to do, I extend a wealth of gratitude to the ganker. This is not a loss but a tremendous gain, without question.



"I know a man who gave up smoking, drinking, sex, and rich food. He was healthy right up to the time he killed himself." - Johnny Carson 
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#30 - 2012-10-27 11:24:22 UTC
Cloaking is fine, if you have a ship that is bonused for it, on a normal hauler it vastly reduces your speed. If you want to be flying a cloaky hauler then given your current choice is a Badger you'd be looking at a Crane which is bonused for Cloak and doesn't have it's speed reduced by the cloak

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Forest Archer
State War Academy
Caldari State
#31 - 2012-10-27 11:46:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Forest Archer
The thing that really gets you with the cloak is ships other then covert ops, force recons, and blockade runners cannot warp cloaked. There is also a speed reduction penalty when using a non covert ops cloak, except on the black ops ship. Which means to warp your badger the best you ca hope is jump, start aligning ( hope the person is not paying attention), cloak, uncloak, hope you don't get caught (some gankers have points), speed up (once again your vulnerable), warp. Then repeat. This is the reason we suggest tank over cloak, but the crane give the cloak, or you can look at the bustard it has the t2 resists and can haul more then the crane but it can't cloak but there's another option.

Always willing to help all you have to do is ask, though if you're in the other fleet I may not help the way you want. Just a heads up. Pub Channel: Lost Souls Trading Post
Jesuis Cache-Cache
#32 - 2012-10-27 12:01:00 UTC
Forest Archer wrote:
Which means to warp your badger the best you ca hope is jump, start aligning ( hope the person is not paying attention), cloak, uncloak, hope you don't get caught (some gankers have points), speed up (once again your vulnerable), warp. Then repeat.

I don't follow, Forrest. I mean where are you going to get locked? You don't get locked when you warp to 0 at a gate and jump..Do you?

I thought they only hit you after you jump through the gate. And only then, between the time you are uncloaked from the gate cloak to the time you actually warp. Using MWD-C you only blink and you are cloaked again. The only time you are uncloaked for any length of time is when you come out of warp to jump through the next gate. Do people get ganked at that point?

"I know a man who gave up smoking, drinking, sex, and rich food. He was healthy right up to the time he killed himself." - Johnny Carson 
Forest Archer
State War Academy
Caldari State
#33 - 2012-10-27 12:09:16 UTC
Depends on the lock time I've seen ship set ups where the lock time is less the Hal's a second on a frig, and if your locked you can't cloak. That is why you can't predict much, you never know how people are flying their ships but you can assume based off of popular trends. All I'm trying to say is it may be unlikely but it is possible, also with a non covert cloak your most vulnerable when speeding up to warp because industrial accelerate extremely slow.

Always willing to help all you have to do is ask, though if you're in the other fleet I may not help the way you want. Just a heads up. Pub Channel: Lost Souls Trading Post
Jesuis Cache-Cache
#34 - 2012-10-27 13:02:48 UTC
The speed of the lock is something else, among ...well everything, that I have question of. I know they can lock in 0.4 but can they actually lock on someone that applies the MWD - Cloak Trick correctly?

I have no idea what they see on the overview when that maneuver is executed. I mean your blinking in and out before they can click the mouse. Then again there is potential lag through the net, but we can't help that. Which is the only thing I can offer as to why I never even noticed being red boxed.

The only thing that would hinder, from what I can tell, is the align time extending longer than the 10 seconds of the MWD cycle. Which both the Badger and the Badger II have alignment times that are longer than 10 seconds. This means that for the trick to work, one must implement Nanofibers in the lows and or Low Frictions in the rigs. Both of which will hit the EHP. So it comes down to how one wishes to apply this concept. per skills, and risk of loss.

I agree that the tank is more of a sound security...but the cloak is more...fun. Hell, my character is named...I'm Hide and Seek.

That's what has always attracted me to stealth gameplay. Be that any game I forego. The element of risk adds to the raw emotion you get from..."what if I screw up?" As long as one is deliberant in the actions of not getting caught, then if and when he is....well...
To the victor goes the spoils...right?

I think I'll name the vessel...The Gingerbread Man.

More like the Tosted Man..huh? Because that's what will happen if we're caught.P

"I know a man who gave up smoking, drinking, sex, and rich food. He was healthy right up to the time he killed himself." - Johnny Carson 
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#35 - 2012-10-27 13:33:53 UTC
The other, more pertinent, perspective on it is thus:

- Use the MWD/cloak trick when you're carrying something very valuable. You stay at the controls permanently, and possibly even scout ahead. Don't route through the common gank points.
- In all other scenarios, simply tank the hauler properly and then you can AFK-Autopilot the route. A rough rule of thumb would be to not carry more than about 150mil per 10k EHP you can tank. The tank should be passive, not relying on turning on hardeners, for the AFK element of the whole thing.

You can carry small and expensive items in a COVOPS ship with active piloting.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#36 - 2012-10-27 13:38:03 UTC
Jesuis Cache-Cache wrote:
Forest Archer wrote:
Which means to warp your badger the best you ca hope is jump, start aligning ( hope the person is not paying attention), cloak, uncloak, hope you don't get caught (some gankers have points), speed up (once again your vulnerable), warp. Then repeat.

I don't follow, Forrest. I mean where are you going to get locked? You don't get locked when you warp to 0 at a gate and jump..Do you?

I thought they only hit you after you jump through the gate. And only then, between the time you are uncloaked from the gate cloak to the time you actually warp. Using MWD-C you only blink and you are cloaked again. The only time you are uncloaked for any length of time is when you come out of warp to jump through the next gate. Do people get ganked at that point?


But then you have to decloak again to enter warp after you are aligned. Which means you gain your full speed back (as cloaking decreases yours speed a lot).

This means your industrial has to speed up again to get into warp threshold speed.

The cloak-MWD trick works great on frigates for instance cause their acceleration speed is pretty high, so once they decloak they also are able to speed up enough for warp pretty quickly. Industrials however, well snails accelerate faster, take longer time to get into warp even after a cloak-MWD trick.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#37 - 2012-10-27 13:39:29 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Jesuis Cache-Cache wrote:
The speed of the lock is something else, among ...well everything, that I have question of. I know they can lock in 0.4 but can they actually lock on someone that applies the MWD - Cloak Trick correctly?

I have no idea what they see on the overview when that maneuver is executed. I mean your blinking in and out before they can click the mouse. Then again there is potential lag through the net, but we can't help that. Which is the only thing I can offer as to why I never even noticed being red boxed.

The only thing that would hinder, from what I can tell, is the align time extending longer than the 10 seconds of the MWD cycle. Which both the Badger and the Badger II have alignment times that are longer than 10 seconds. This means that for the trick to work, one must implement Nanofibers in the lows and or Low Frictions in the rigs. Both of which will hit the EHP. So it comes down to how one wishes to apply this concept. per skills, and risk of loss.

I agree that the tank is more of a sound security...but the cloak is more...fun. Hell, my character is named...I'm Hide and Seek.

That's what has always attracted me to stealth gameplay. Be that any game I forego. The element of risk adds to the raw emotion you get from..."what if I screw up?" As long as one is deliberant in the actions of not getting caught, then if and when he is....well...
To the victor goes the spoils...right?

I think I'll name the vessel...The Gingerbread Man.

More like the Tosted Man..huh? Because that's what will happen if we're caught.P



Locking during the cloak-MWD trick depends if you do it properly

It's Cloak, then MWD. Not otherway around, as that brief moment your hit the MWD first lights you up like a x-mas tree and make them lock you even faster.

ALSO,

Don't get fooled by the animation of you dropping your gate cloak taking time, as soon as you move, you are shown to them on overview, even if on screen you still have the cloak animation.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Jesuis Cache-Cache
#38 - 2012-10-27 14:06:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Jesuis Cache-Cache
J'Poll wrote:


But then you have to decloak again to enter warp after you are aligned. Which means you gain your full speed back (as cloaking decreases yours speed a lot).

This means your industrial has to speed up again to get into warp threshold speed.

The cloak-MWD trick works great on frigates for instance cause their acceleration speed is pretty high, so once they decloak they also are able to speed up enough for warp pretty quickly. Industrials however, well snails accelerate faster, take longer time to get into warp even after a cloak-MWD trick.

Wait. I understand it to work on any ship. No matter the size, acceleration or the max velocity. Thus, only being functional with the 75% reduction of the T2 Cloaking device. You are in warp before you actually come out of cloak. There should be nothing to speed up to.

EDIT :

I see the issue with Industrials. In order for the Cloak MWD Trick to work properly, you must install a 10MN MWD. That brings up a Power Grid problem. However, with level V skills it is possible to do and still have the align time low enough to be able to warp when the MWD ends it's cycle. Look at this crazy list.Shocked

[Badger Mark II]

Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Inertia Stabilizers II
Inertia Stabilizers II

10MN MicroWarpdrive I
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Improved Cloaking Device II
[empty high slot]

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router II
Medium Ancillary Current Router II


EDIT :

Ha! This is won't happen! Those T2 Routers are 70m a pop. I respectfully yield to the tank..

I would like to take this opportunity to TANK everyone for commenting. Now, I must retire for a while....zzzzzzzz...

"I know a man who gave up smoking, drinking, sex, and rich food. He was healthy right up to the time he killed himself." - Johnny Carson 
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#39 - 2012-10-27 17:38:12 UTC
Welcome to the wonderful world of Eve ship fitting, where cost and compromise constantly kill your brilliant ideas.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Prophet Bathana
Protean Concept
Sedition.
#40 - 2012-10-27 20:03:39 UTC
Yes.

All you need to get goods through HS is a Cloak and MWD. If you need more information Google Cloak/MWD Trick. Works every time.