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Anybody else tried the new X-Com: Enemy Unknown?

Author
MinefieldS
1 Sick Duck Standss on something
#21 - 2012-10-19 05:20:14 UTC
Akita T, I'd like to read your detailed comparison of Jagged Alliance:Back in Action to JA2 1.13 like you did XCOM in this thread TwistedTwistedTwisted

Akita T wrote:

same accurate gameplay-wise remake , but also with completely free camera movement (pan/scroll/zoom), with MORE tech than before in forms of custom weapon, ammo, gear and craft research/prototyping based on previous techs (be it full redesign, or add-ons, or a bit of both).


Btw you can bind a button for ToggleDebugCamera and then you can look around freely with the mouse, I just haven't figured out how to move the camera. Copy the relevant parameters from defaultinputwhatever.ini to inputwhatever.ini in the documents.
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#22 - 2012-10-19 16:15:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Akita T
Sort of liked JA1, but not THAT much. Might have been a solid game, but I was not that attracted to it since I don't very much love games where there's not enough of the Sci-Fi element present (I heard JA2 had something about aliens hidden in the plot, but it felt like a stretch, and did not really bother "investigating" the matter).
Didn't play JA2 much back in the day either (probably too busy with loads of something elses, I never even got to the part where militia mattered at all), and I didn't even think I was aware they have a remake of JA2 out (or if I ever actually knew, I quickly forgot).
From a (very) quick view of some "let's play" youtube vids for both, the core gameplay seems to be somewhat similar (or possibly even arguably improved, especially after some major patching, if the appropriate options are selected, like tactical mode), also with a lot of gutted elements, like militia training, NPC dialogue and even some (allegedly funny) cutscenes.
Sounds actually even worse than what they did with XCom, from some viewpoints, but at least they DID "sort of" improve the core gameplay somewhat (the realtime combat planner thingy).

If I ever get around to play both the old one and the remake even halfway seriously, I'll let you know.
Doubtful I would get around to do that, though, too little spare time for something like that.
Elias Greyhand
#23 - 2012-10-19 19:16:51 UTC
I rather like the game but I don't have naything to compare it to as the original series passed me by.

Base building, soldier progression and the research is good fun but the fact is the combat is always going to get repetitive because of how the missions play out; I've discovered only three variations on missions so far - Terror, Abduction and ViP Rescue.

I was extremely proud when I got my first Psi-Operative even if the first power is as useless as trying to Overwatch with an epty rifle, then my first Powered Armour and I was actually in shock when my first personal recruit, a Swedish Sniper of Colonel rank got topped (I confess, I stopped playing that run through after that.. I was a sad panda).

For me, as I said, I rather like it because I had no preconceptions when I came in as to how the game should be whereas people who have played the previous games will do.

The one thing I found funny though was the Abductor-class ship that managed to find a flat bit of land on Japan to land on.

"That which is done cannot be undone. But it can be avenged."

MinefieldS
1 Sick Duck Standss on something
#24 - 2012-10-20 00:40:07 UTC
Akita T wrote:
Sort of liked JA1, but not THAT much. Might have been a solid game, but I was not that attracted to it since I don't very much love games where there's not enough of the Sci-Fi element present (I heard JA2 had something about aliens hidden in the plot, but it felt like a stretch, and did not really bother "investigating" the matter).
Didn't play JA2 much back in the day either (probably too busy with loads of something elses, I never even got to the part where militia mattered at all), and I didn't even think I was aware they have a remake of JA2 out (or if I ever actually knew, I quickly forgot).
From a (very) quick view of some "let's play" youtube vids for both, the core gameplay seems to be somewhat similar (or possibly even arguably improved, especially after some major patching, if the appropriate options are selected, like tactical mode), also with a lot of gutted elements, like militia training, NPC dialogue and even some (allegedly funny) cutscenes.
Sounds actually even worse than what they did with XCom, from some viewpoints, but at least they DID "sort of" improve the core gameplay somewhat (the realtime combat planner thingy).

If I ever get around to play both the old one and the remake even halfway seriously, I'll let you know.
Doubtful I would get around to do that, though, too little spare time for something like that.


JA:BiA is total crap, just wanted to see your reaction in case you played JA2 as you did XCOM. Lol
MinefieldS
1 Sick Duck Standss on something
#25 - 2012-10-20 00:48:36 UTC  |  Edited by: MinefieldS
MinefieldS wrote:
Akita T wrote:
Sort of liked JA1, but not THAT much. Might have been a solid game, but I was not that attracted to it since I don't very much love games where there's not enough of the Sci-Fi element present (I heard JA2 had something about aliens hidden in the plot, but it felt like a stretch, and did not really bother "investigating" the matter).
Didn't play JA2 much back in the day either (probably too busy with loads of something elses, I never even got to the part where militia mattered at all), and I didn't even think I was aware they have a remake of JA2 out (or if I ever actually knew, I quickly forgot).
From a (very) quick view of some "let's play" youtube vids for both, the core gameplay seems to be somewhat similar (or possibly even arguably improved, especially after some major patching, if the appropriate options are selected, like tactical mode), also with a lot of gutted elements, like militia training, NPC dialogue and even some (allegedly funny) cutscenes.
Sounds actually even worse than what they did with XCom, from some viewpoints, but at least they DID "sort of" improve the core gameplay somewhat (the realtime combat planner thingy).

If I ever get around to play both the old one and the remake even halfway seriously, I'll let you know.
Doubtful I would get around to do that, though, too little spare time for something like that.


JA:BiA is total crap, just wanted to see your reaction in case you played JA2 as you did XCOM. Lol

Elias Greyhand wrote:
I rather like the game but I don't have naything to compare it to as the original series passed me by.

Base building, soldier progression and the research is good fun but the fact is the combat is always going to get repetitive because of how the missions play out; I've discovered only three variations on missions so far - Terror, Abduction and ViP Rescue.

I was extremely proud when I got my first Psi-Operative even if the first power is as useless as trying to Overwatch with an epty rifle, then my first Powered Armour and I was actually in shock when my first personal recruit, a Swedish Sniper of Colonel rank got topped (I confess, I stopped playing that run through after that.. I was a sad panda).

For me, as I said, I rather like it because I had no preconceptions when I came in as to how the game should be whereas people who have played the previous games will do.

The one thing I found funny though was the Abductor-class ship that managed to find a flat bit of land on Japan to land on.

Everyone who's got a rifle can use a pistol for overwatch when the rifle is empty. The first psi power is not useless, it's awesome.
Caiden Baxter
You're a Pirate
#26 - 2012-10-20 02:01:13 UTC
Well i just finished the game and it was pretty good despite a metric ton of bugs, dear lord it could have used a week or two of ironing out the worst ones. The random class assignment was abit eh imo, would be nice if you could assign them by yourself.
Some more squaddies would not have been to shabby either, or even a second team since you have a barrack full of soldiers anyways and just keep them on rotation to replace KIA's and guys that end up in the med bay.

Never got to the ending of the old one, got to around half off it but it felt abit more open/free to play imo. While this game's campaign was good it felt personally like a team of huskies going at full speed towards the end. Still haven't made my mind up about the last mission.

The baselayout was pretty neat, enjoyed zooming into the various rooms and see the soldiers do their stuff. The cutscenes where nice as well.

But despite its quirks and oddities its a highly enjoyable game, one off the best i have played this year and im looking forward to see what addons Firaxis can cook upBig smileCool

Soon™

Sturmwolke
#27 - 2012-10-20 07:08:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Sturmwolke
Excellent write up from Akita that really really showed how an older game plays much better that its current incarnation. To date, the original XCOM has no equal.

UFO Extraterrestial Gold Edition came close but even with the Bman mod, there were still (fundamental) flaws that changed the whole recipe to passably edible. The Czech devs have been working on a re-iteration called UFO 2 Extraterrrestial for the past few years, with release to be rumored near end of 2012 but I won't hold by breath for it ... nor hope for it much. The first game was (and still is) plagued with game design and balancing issues that results in inferior gameplay. You get the feeling its banal and forgettable experience. There's no way in hell it's going to make me replay the game.

Next up the line (afaik) in terms of a serious commercial contender is Xenonaut. From what I've seen playing the v16 Alpha briefly for the first time, that game has a LOT that it needs to fix. From the stupid file count (80k!!! which triggers my comment: WTF! are you insane?) on the art assets (which I understand seems to be a limitation of the engine) to the feel of the UI and tactical combat makes me want to kill the game and delete it off the HDD. I did just that after a few hours, patience wearing thin. Granted it's Alpha, if what I'd seen make it through to the final release ... the gameplay will be pretty poor. Xenonaut's designer never really used this opportunity to enhance & expand the XCOM style concepts (while preserving its essence), opting instead to do a clone copy (which atm is a pretty poor clone).

Talking of JA2 1.13, I enjoyed that game. The sheer details in the weapon attributes and the quirks that is built into a particular weapon to distinguish it from the huge list of models available makes for a less straight forward tactical game. Coupled with the varied vest webbing/belt/backpack inventory space, you have the sheer possibilities to squad fitting. Wanna move fast, use light vests with no backpack. Wanna carry lots, use the biggest backpack available (and the games penalizes your movement). Making a sound matters because the enemy can hear you. Sight range is variable with equipment. Weapons can be fitted with several accessories (trigger unit, LBR stock, scope, sight etc.) to fit the scenario. There are lots and lots of good concepts from JA2 1.13 and if that was fused somehow to XCOM, it could end up with a beautiful game. Alas, no one is up to that challenge.

Pure turn-based tactical game that plays close like XCOM will not likely ever see AAA development because more often than not, it'll get mangled and streamlined in the process to appeal to the current mass market. You've seen this happened with XCOM: EU, which by all accounts seems to be an enjoyable game by itself .... but worthy of a classic? Not by a longshot. Looks like we're going have to rely on indie devs to bring out the deep old-school games.
Elias Greyhand
#28 - 2012-10-20 07:56:54 UTC
MinefieldS wrote:
you played JA2 as you did XCOM. Lol

Elias Greyhand wrote:
I rather like the game but I don't have naything to compare it to as the original series passed me by.

Base building, soldier progression and the research is good fun but the fact is the combat is always going to get repetitive because of how the missions play out; I've discovered only three variations on missions so far - Terror, Abduction and ViP Rescue.

I was extremely proud when I got my first Psi-Operative even if the first power is as useless as trying to Overwatch with an epty rifle, then my first Powered Armour and I was actually in shock when my first personal recruit, a Swedish Sniper of Colonel rank got topped (I confess, I stopped playing that run through after that.. I was a sad panda).

For me, as I said, I rather like it because I had no preconceptions when I came in as to how the game should be whereas people who have played the previous games will do.

The one thing I found funny though was the Abductor-class ship that managed to find a flat bit of land on Japan to land on.

Everyone who's got a rifle can use a pistol for overwatch when the rifle is empty. The first psi power is not useless, it's awesome.


I know about Pistols and Overwatch, it's the only useful scenario generally for a sniper when in the close confines of a ship.

I found the first Psi power useless because it never worked, out of around 10 attempts it worked not at all but then that's coloured by my experience.

One thing that does bother me though is how they designed the Laser weapons to look; yeah I know it's all reverse-engineering and all that but how comes only the Laser Pistol looks halfway presentable? The Laser Rifle and Sniper Laser are so blocky!

"That which is done cannot be undone. But it can be avenged."

Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#29 - 2012-10-20 08:14:32 UTC
Sturmwolke wrote:
Excellent write up from Akita that really really showed how an older game plays much better that its current incarnation. To date, the original XCOM has no equal.

UFO Extraterrestial Gold Edition came close but even with the Bman mod, there were still (fundamental) flaws that changed the whole recipe to passably edible. The Czech devs have been working on a re-iteration called UFO 2 Extraterrrestial for the past few years, with release to be rumored near end of 2012 but I won't hold by breath for it ... nor hope for it much. The first game was (and still is) plagued with game design and balancing issues that results in inferior gameplay. You get the feeling its banal and forgettable experience. There's no way in hell it's going to make me replay the game.

Next up the line (afaik) in terms of a serious commercial contender is Xenonaut. From what I've seen playing the v16 Alpha briefly for the first time, that game has a LOT that it needs to fix. From the stupid file count (80k!!! which triggers my comment: WTF! are you insane?) on the art assets (which I understand seems to be a limitation of the engine) to the feel of the UI and tactical combat makes me want to kill the game and delete it off the HDD. I did just that after a few hours, patience wearing thin. Granted it's Alpha, if what I'd seen make it through to the final release ... the gameplay will be pretty poor. Xenonaut's designer never really used this opportunity to enhance & expand the XCOM style concepts (while preserving its essence), opting instead to do a clone copy (which atm is a pretty poor clone).

Talking of JA2 1.13, I enjoyed that game. The sheer details in the weapon attributes and the quirks that is built into a particular weapon to distinguish it from the huge list of models available makes for a less straight forward tactical game. Coupled with the varied vest webbing/belt/backpack inventory space, you have the sheer possibilities to squad fitting. Wanna move fast, use light vests with no backpack. Wanna carry lots, use the biggest backpack available (and the games penalizes your movement). Making a sound matters because the enemy can hear you. Sight range is variable with equipment. Weapons can be fitted with several accessories (trigger unit, LBR stock, scope, sight etc.) to fit the scenario. There are lots and lots of good concepts from JA2 1.13 and if that was fused somehow to XCOM, it could end up with a beautiful game. Alas, no one is up to that challenge.

Pure turn-based tactical game that plays close like XCOM will not likely ever see AAA development because more often than not, it'll get mangled and streamlined in the process to appeal to the current mass market. You've seen this happened with XCOM: EU, which by all accounts seems to be an enjoyable game by itself .... but worthy of a classic? Not by a longshot. Looks like we're going have to rely on indie devs to bring out the deep old-school games.


I'm still holding hope, that Xenonauts can at least get close to the old XCOM feel and manage to fix some of the problems like psionics. From what I've seen it seems nice and the design goals are good. In it's current status it certainly has issues, but as you said it is still in alfa and one of the missing feature before the beta can even start is a new UI.
MinefieldS
1 Sick Duck Standss on something
#30 - 2012-10-20 08:25:37 UTC
First mission on impossible
http://imageshack.us/f/407/pathetic.jpg/
You call that AI?


Later on 1 of my noobs got 1 shotted though after I went looking for the rest of the aliens. That was the only shot the aliens managed to fire.
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#31 - 2012-10-20 10:16:36 UTC
Im with Akita on this

once you've completed it (the modern remake) theres nothing really there to make you want to play it again, and again, and again ......... and it's completed in a few days if you play casually, 1 if more hardcore gaming.

the original kept me entertained for months.
the original had options that I chose.



The remake is prettier, but it's by no means better.
Arec Bardwin
#32 - 2012-10-20 17:06:15 UTC
Sturmwolke wrote:
Excellent write up from Akita that really really showed how an older game plays much better that its current incarnation. To date, the original XCOM has no equal.
Agreed. Sounds like Akita played the game as much as I did Big smile

I played the sequel; Terror From the Deep as well, but it was a little too frustrating for me at times (incredibly long terror and alien base attacks)
Blue Binary
Polychoron
#33 - 2012-10-20 19:54:28 UTC
I did miss the incendiary grenades and ammo types. Overall it felt like the game was restricted and moved along too quickly. I guess it's all in the name of accessibility and pleasing the casual gamers.

After finishing it today I looked up some mods that might make me play it one more time. The Warspace Extension looks like it could enhance it's replayability. It enables the "Second Wave" feature that never made it into the final game (future DLC?), ability to intercept UFO's before they do their missions, panic levels tweaked, a marathon game time option, etc.

Top 25 list of mods.
Sturmwolke
#34 - 2012-10-21 08:05:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Sturmwolke
Arec Bardwin wrote:
I played the sequel; Terror From the Deep as well, but it was a little too frustrating for me at times (incredibly long terror and alien base attacks)

Uggh ... Terror From The Deep. That game was a bit long-winded and I remembered hating all the nooks and crannies on the map where the aliens like to hide.
Heavy stuffs ... wasn't as playable as the original XCOM.

A bit off tangent, I was thinking on the Cenega's UFO : Aftermath/Aftershock/Afterlight series (circa 2003-2007) which were fairly playable games in their own right, but ultimately lacklustre due to the shallow tactical RTS which lacked options and depth. Then it crossed my mind, the Men of War series (circa 2009) had a beautiful tactical RTS engine which was very detailed and felt quite realistic. Now imagine, using that same engine for a new XCOM RTS tactical. It'll work out very well. *hint hint* .... to the devs behind the Men of War series (or anyone who knows them). Smile

Edit: Men of War runs on the GEM2 Engine, from the Ukraine no less. So I guess pretty much any indie devs can pick it up if they can afford to license it.
BobFenner
Black Hole Runners
#35 - 2012-10-24 18:24:11 UTC
I have to agree with Akita on many of her concerns.

Whilst it is a good looking game and it is fun to play, their is limited replayability as it is so linear.

I also played Jagged Alliance 2 which is excellent. My favourite was Nails, angry biker dude with a shotgun. :)

It just seems to me that PC games are getting overly simplified. Maybe this is because of the amount of console ports, maybe it is because of lazy developers.

I want to be challenged when I play a strategy type game, and unfortunately nothing in recent years has done that for me. Sad

That being said, props to Firaxis for trying to remake an iconic game - even if they haven't quite managed it....
My missus thinks of EvE as 'the other woman'. :)
Max Godsnottlingson
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2012-10-25 10:06:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Max Godsnottlingson
BobFenner wrote:
I have to agree with Akita on many of her concerns.

Whilst it is a good looking game and it is fun to play, their is limited replayability as it is so linear.

I also played Jagged Alliance 2 which is excellent. My favourite was Nails, angry biker dude with a shotgun. :)

It just seems to me that PC games are getting overly simplified. Maybe this is because of the amount of console ports, maybe it is because of lazy developers.

I want to be challenged when I play a strategy type game, and unfortunately nothing in recent years has done that for me. Sad

That being said, props to Firaxis for trying to remake an iconic game - even if they haven't quite managed it....


Now that I have played the game through I must admit that it's a little "Bletch!" now, and unless there are some good upgrades out soon, it will not be getting much of a look in.

Just to give my penny worth, to what BobFenner asked.

I think that the main problem with PC gaming is that it is now part of the mainstream entertainment industry, and the suits are not interested in selling quality games, but selling as many units as possible and 'dumbed down' lets them sell the biggest numbers. Yes, I may sit here 'bitching' about how disapointed I am at the end of the day. But Firaxis has still had it's money out of me.

Any you know, in Firaxis's case I find that realy sad. Firaxis grew out of Microprose, one of the original first gen game companies. Not only did they prduce many of the best games of the day, they created many of the game formats that are the basics of todays gaming. Microprose games always came in a weighty box, with a tome of a manual, which while getting you into the game fast, covered everything and usually included a well written potted history of what ever the game was covering.

It was due to Microsoft that I learn't all about the likes of 'Mush' Morton and the difference between Pacific class and Greasley class steam trains.

Now, sadly, it all about the 'suits' being bothered about selling as much tat as possible and not getting their sales from selling quality products.
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#37 - 2012-10-25 12:54:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Akita T
Tried a few of the mods, played on the third difficulty too, but it's just not worth it. There's just not enough fun to be had.
Uninstalled it a few days ago. Including deleting all saves. This iteration of the game is dead to me, for now.
If anybody ever makes a radical total conversion, I might consider revisiting it, but until then, farewell XCOM-2012, I want to say it's been a pleasure, but it would be a bit of a stretch... moderately entertaining for a short while, sure, but that's about it.

P.S. On the other hand, dusting up the old UFO and loading up XComUtil to fix the buggy stuff and add some challenge, now THAT's what I'm talking about !
It's sad when a decades-old game with some player-made changes beats a brand new and radically better looking remake in terms of gameplay enjoyment AND ESPECIALLY RE-PLAYABILITY.
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#38 - 2012-10-26 06:52:15 UTC
Short Review:

If you're new to X-COM, the game is totally awesome.

If you're a fan of the original X-COM, the game is sacrilegious pile of flaming dog poo.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#39 - 2012-10-26 14:03:58 UTC
More like "pretty good, but with limited replayability, and you'll want all the fanmods you can get" for the fist and "fairly disappointing due to not really improving much from the old game and cutting a lot of nice stuff out" for the second... but yeah, generally, what you said.
Louis deGuerre
The Dark Tribe
#40 - 2012-10-26 15:12:21 UTC
I think a big problem is that Akita T did not start on Classic. Anything that comes easy is not interesting.
After you've seen the whole game on easy working your way trough it again on classic must be no fun as you've already had all your rewards.
Not that new the XCOM is better than the old one. It's a whole different game. With bugs. But I do think it is a good game, even a great game.