Player Features and Ideas Discussion

But you're doing so much kiting that them getting away is hardly an issue. You have them locked down from a distance.

Show me an omen kiting fit that doesn't run out of cap in 2 minutes while still having some EHP and being fast and agile enough to keep up with the 2200+ m/s updated Thorax.

I did some very focused testing on the new Omen, mostly against the Thorax. I'm getting the impression that the Omen is overpowered. It also has real cap issues whenever MWD or even smalls neuts are involved. On this point, it's too similar to the Maller.

I suggest changing the 5% ROF bonus to a 5% damage bonus. That's a 8.3% turret dps nerf but a 33% laser cap use reduction.

From a logical balancing standpoint, absolutely. However, I'm pretty sure there's a "hell freezing over" type of analogy to be used here.

Watching Sard Caid fitting the attack cruisers on his stream, the stabber is looking really meh to me now. It's damage projection is great, but it's damage is pretty poor, combined with it fighting in falloff makes it even worse. With 2 gyros 1 TE it was 220 DPS w/ 32km falloff. 3 Gyros was 250 dps/25km falloff.
It may be worth it to fit missiles to get more dps out of it, leaving it nearly defenceless against frigates, with the lack of drone-bay/neuts then.


The Omen (while having less tank, shield fit) was doing over 300 dps with turrets with a 30km optimal, plus drones, and a very similar looking cap stability while firing guns it seemed.

I'm excited for this change, and I'll be flying the hell out of the stabber, but I'm starting to think it may not stack up against the others.

Yes, but you never have to engage said Omen. You have a choice, do you engage it, or run away at a significantly higher speed.

Also, it may be worth it to fit missiles to get more DPS. Assuming you fit missiles, you also aren't defenceless against frigates, depending on choice of launcher type. AML's will give you good projection, and increase your damage decently with furies, while taking up minimal fitting space, and making you more effective against frigates. Perhaps not as much as, say, 2 neuts, but it's a question of utility versus damage.

Also, though the Omen greatly out-damages the Stabber at range, you can burn in and dual-neut it. When its cap runs down (and it has a.... fragile cap, from what I've read so far in here), it'll be incapable of fighting back at maximum effectiveness.

And for ships like the Moa, Thorax, etc, you'll out-range them substantially, and you will be free to murder them because you outrun them as well, and they'll never catch you.

It just means you have to pick your engagements, and use your speed to get out of the fights you can't win.

The Stabber shouldn't be able to compete in a brawl, otherwise we're back at Winmatar.

It's supposed to be good at hit and runs, kiting and killing frigates. It's absolutely supposed to sit at 20-30 km and slowly kill a Thorax and die horribly if it cannot maintain range. If it could comfortably win in web range with brute force alone then the other non-Minmatar cruisers would be nearly useless as they don't have the same mobility, damage selection, capless guns and utility highslots.

It's supposed to be good at hit and runs.
Agreed... It just a little light on the "Hit" part of the equation.

kiting and killing frigates...
LOL... go buy destroyers, it's cheaper.This is an ATTACK CRUISER not a DESTROYER.

It's absolutely supposed to sit at 20-30 km and slowly kill a Thorax and die horribly if it cannot maintain range.
Yes... but it can only really do that effectively with ONE type of ammo. BARRAGE.

mobility
Yes because getting killed and exploding at 2400m/s + is just awesome

damage selection
Sure that's true at close range but doesn't help much to a kite ship with ONE effective ammo type to shoot at range with. Even using close range/high damage ammo, the damage output vs other ships of this class is laughable at best. One could argue that the (EM/THERM/KIN/EXPLO) drones the other ships carry could be considered damage selection as well and they can go a hell of a lot further that the falloff of the Stabber.

capless guns
Can't say much there. They are what they are. Take that one up with CCP.

utility highslots
I'd give up the utility for another turret personally.
And the missile slots... ugh... ditch them.

No one here asking for improvements to the proposed Stabber want a "I WIN" ship, they want a ship that does it's job. Kite and do damage at range. It's got the kite part. It's just missing damage and maybe shooting at range now.

Someone knows what's happening here.
Still, the Stabber doesn't really seem as competitive as it could be in terms of DPS. I'm aware that it's incredibly fast, but that won't really win fights; it'll allow it to choose which ones to take part in but that doesn't matter if there aren't any ships of it's class that it could reasonably go against and not likely get utterly ruined by.

It shouldn't be able to compete in a brawl, no. It should have a chance to win a fight before capping out. The cap stability looks like itneeds to cycle the mwd to have any chance at having cap last long enough to wear down another cruiser, but by doing that, especially against these other attack cruisers, you're probably going to get caught.