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ASB is BULL.

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Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#501 - 2012-09-08 22:09:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Hrett
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Hrett wrote:
ASBs are fine.

Ill use the Cyclone because it has these obscene theoretical numbers being thrown around.

They can be soloed, despite claims to the contrary.

http://pinkiepie.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=14290526

Even dual XLASB are not invincible because of alpha.

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=14444795

Say it out loud: "54 seconds."

That is how long they are awesome for. 54 Seconds. They might need a fitting increase to discourage dual oversized fits, but otherwise:

54 seconds.



So you need an ASB fitted Talos to take on the ASB cyclone?

Lol


As I stated in a later post, yes the Talos was asb. And you could say the same "you need to bring X to beat an X" about many ship/fleet configurations. And I solo killed a MASB Atron with a honor tanked Atron. Nerf honor tank or rails? I don't think so.

It's been a bit since I posted in this thread, but after seeing these often in many configurations now, my opinion stands. I believe they need to increase fitting costs to discourage (but not eliminate) dual oversized fits (i.e. you can still fit dual fits, but would have to gimp the rest of your fit terribly). And they need to balance armor because the ASB highlights how bad active armor is. But otherwise, single ASB setups are fine. Their buffer is terrible, and they can be broken by 1-3 similar sized ships, even before their charges run out (depending on the situation).

They add a new element to small gang. I can now fly speedy blasterships with a reasonable tank in small gang so I can actually get in range to apply damage. As primarily a Gallente pilot, it is a refreshing change (though I still want them to fix active armor).

Edit: A thoughtful poster in W&T recently educated me about The Change Curve and I think that is a good label to describe the ASB reception. It's a paradigm shift. It's uncomfortable at first, but people will (and have) warm to them (dual oversized fits aside).

IMHO.

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#502 - 2012-09-09 00:49:07 UTC
Hrett wrote:
Their buffer is terrible, and they can be broken by 1-3 similar sized ships, even before their charges run out (depending on the situation).


This is not true, even neglecting implants, links, and boosters. I've done it way too many times for it to be true.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Lugia3
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#503 - 2012-09-09 01:06:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugia3
Yes, it is overpowered somewhat. I lost a navy megathron with 222k EHP to a sleipner that had kill rights on me, which always seemed to bounce back up when its shields got low under my ~1200 dps + TP and web. Of course, all my faction mods had to drop for the guy instead of being destroyed.

Atleast limit it to 1 ASB per ship...

"CCP Dolan is full of shit." - CCP Bettik
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#504 - 2012-09-09 02:37:47 UTC
Lugia3 wrote:
Yes, it is overpowered somewhat. I lost a navy megathron with 222k EHP to a sleipner that had kill rights on me, which always seemed to bounce back up when its shields got low under my ~1200 dps + TP and web. Of course, all my faction mods had to drop for the guy instead of being destroyed.

Atleast limit it to 1 ASB per ship...


Proper dbl xl asb sleip will tank 4+ megas Blink You were fighting loosing battle.
Maggeridon Thoraz
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#505 - 2012-09-09 03:06:21 UTC
i think the biggest looser of ship types might be the pilgrim and curse
just having with old fits with dps of 237 with maxed droneskills which is not much, but was actuall not needed as they coulbreak the tank with neuts.
now they can neut the ship and the tagets can still rep up like mad and you still have only 237 dps .:-(

ok now you have as well new drone dms mods. but for this you sacrifice the armor tank of the pilgrim . so swap to a shield variant with asb ?
one one side i think the asb are ok , on the other side i think not well thaught out.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#506 - 2012-09-09 13:01:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Lin-Young Borovskova
Hrett wrote:
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Hrett wrote:
ASBs are fine.

Ill use the Cyclone because it has these obscene theoretical numbers being thrown around.

They can be soloed, despite claims to the contrary.

http://pinkiepie.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=14290526

Even dual XLASB are not invincible because of alpha.

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=14444795

Say it out loud: "54 seconds."

That is how long they are awesome for. 54 Seconds. They might need a fitting increase to discourage dual oversized fits, but otherwise:

54 seconds.



So you need an ASB fitted Talos to take on the ASB cyclone?

Lol


As I stated in a later post, yes the Talos was asb. And you could say the same "you need to bring X to beat an X" about many ship/fleet configurations. And I solo killed a MASB Atron with a honor tanked Atron. Nerf honor tank or rails? I don't think so.

It's been a bit since I posted in this thread, but after seeing these often in many configurations now, my opinion stands. I believe they need to increase fitting costs to discourage (but not eliminate) dual oversized fits (i.e. you can still fit dual fits, but would have to gimp the rest of your fit terribly). And they need to balance armor because the ASB highlights how bad active armor is. But otherwise, single ASB setups are fine. Their buffer is terrible, and they can be broken by 1-3 similar sized ships, even before their charges run out (depending on the situation).

They add a new element to small gang. I can now fly speedy blasterships with a reasonable tank in small gang so I can actually get in range to apply damage. As primarily a Gallente pilot, it is a refreshing change (though I still want them to fix active armor).

Edit: A thoughtful poster in W&T recently educated me about The Change Curve and I think that is a good label to describe the ASB reception. It's a paradigm shift. It's uncomfortable at first, but people will (and have) warm to them (dual oversized fits aside).

IMHO.


I just wanted to point to the important part you seem not willing to admit.

-you don't bring an armor fitted Talos
-you don't bring a passive shield fit Talos
-you don't bring an hurricane shield/armor
-you dont bring *cough/laugh* a....Brutix

And so on. So I'll just finish my opinion on this specific case by telling you that when the only effective counter to this new fashion XL-ASB victims is to bring more and also fitted Xl-ASB fashion victims it's probably because something is wrong with that module and not because you're an ultra skilled pilot.
The fact you can now follow your mates with your blaster ship it's not a sign this module helped your ship doing stuff he was already good for (melt faces) but just made your setup something OP. You can also fit passive shield and melt stuff but like me you choose to fit an XL-ASB because you become simply a ship murderer thx to this mod.

I've seen solo Vagas with those take on 5 men gangs with tackle/T2 assault ships/ BC's and literally murder them.
3 to 5 men Gangs withs those fitted in cloaky Lokis (hell even Machariels with cloack and those ASB fitted) and make stuff you can't even imagine it's possible, so I can safely say despite you believe me or not this mod is bringing a hell of imbalance to the game and killing more solo pvp than helping it.

But I'm ok CCP does nothing to prevent or change this, guess what, I'm using it too and have no feelings when I fit it to my ship and go out station blow stuff, after all it's CCP problem to fix their game, not me.

brb
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#507 - 2012-09-09 13:11:34 UTC
Maggeridon Thoraz wrote:
i think the biggest looser of ship types might be the pilgrim and curse
just having with old fits with dps of 237 with maxed droneskills which is not much, but was actuall not needed as they coulbreak the tank with neuts.
now they can neut the ship and the tagets can still rep up like mad and you still have only 237 dps .:-(

ok now you have as well new drone dms mods. but for this you sacrifice the armor tank of the pilgrim . so swap to a shield variant with asb ?
one one side i think the asb are ok , on the other side i think not well thaught out.




Changing fitting requirements and make it so you can't fit more than one would bring a better balance before thinking about reduce the amount repaired or something else, but atm those mods make regular setups "I win'" machines and those already good in :GodMode-On:

brb
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#508 - 2012-09-09 16:44:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Mars Theran
Tom Gerard wrote:
>>>> SHOCKER <<<<

>>>> SHOCKER <<<<

>>>> SHOCKER <<<<


1v1 PVP in EVE is not balanced?!?!?

I DEMAND CCP BALANCE THE GAME SO EVERY SHIP IS VIABLE AGAINST EVERY OTHER SHIP IN PVP!

Badgers should stand a reasonable chance of defeating Tornadoes.


Two be fair, it was a Faction BS vs. a Faction BS

On the other hand, I'm a little mistified as to why you would need a Tracking computer in a fight vs. a BS.

edit: ..or Webs really. Nos and Neut obviously isn't going to be effective vs. ASB either, so really, you had ~5-6 fittings that were completely useless against your opponent, and you couldn't tank what you claim was 150 DPS, (approximately what an Atron would put out in the right hands apparently).

I think you need to rethink your methodology, or at least reconsider why you lost.
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#509 - 2012-09-10 02:50:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Hrett
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:


I just wanted to point to the important part you seem not willing to admit.

-you don't bring an armor fitted Talos
-you don't bring a passive shield fit Talos
-you don't bring an hurricane shield/armor
-you dont bring *cough/laugh* a....Brutix

And so on. So I'll just finish my opinion on this specific case by telling you that when the only effective counter to this new fashion XL-ASB victims is to bring more and also fitted Xl-ASB fashion victims it's probably because something is wrong with that module and not because you're an ultra skilled pilot.
The fact you can now follow your mates with your blaster ship it's not a sign this module helped your ship doing stuff he was already good for (melt faces) but just made your setup something OP. You can also fit passive shield and melt stuff but like me you choose to fit an XL-ASB because you become simply a ship murderer thx to this mod.

I've seen solo Vagas with those take on 5 men gangs with tackle/T2 assault ships/ BC's and literally murder them.
3 to 5 men Gangs withs those fitted in cloaky Lokis (hell even Machariels with cloack and those ASB fitted) and make stuff you can't even imagine it's possible, so I can safely say despite you believe me or not this mod is bringing a hell of imbalance to the game and killing more solo pvp than helping it.

But I'm ok CCP does nothing to prevent or change this, guess what, I'm using it too and have no feelings when I fit it to my ship and go out station blow stuff, after all it's CCP problem to fix their game, not me.


Well, imbalance is a matter of perception isnt it? 'imbalance' = change in balance = paradigm shift = new balance. Yes, it's different, but that doesn't mean it is bad. Its just new.

So yea, perhaps the new balance is if you have 1-5 ship gang, and will be facing another small gang, fit ASBs. The answer before was 'fit shield or armor buffer'. I have no problem with the change. Thank god. Buffer fit stuff everywhere was getting old and stale.

I've seen solo passive shield nano drakes destroy small gangs with BCs and tackle too. Nerf drakes?

What is the bet way to counter a nano-sillyness cockbag Tornado alpha fleet? Bring another nano sillyness cockbag tornado alpha fleet. Nerf nano alpha fleets?

Again, besides the dual oversized fits (and active armor suckiness and off grid boosting - which is a separate issue) I just don't see a problem here. IMHO.

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#510 - 2012-09-10 03:04:03 UTC
So you're perfectly happy trading one "must-fit" for another "must-fit" instead of introducing actual variety to the game? Ships like the Myrm are better off fitting a T2 mod/T1 rig ASB fit than with a deadspace mod/T2 rigged triple deadspace rep. Do you honestly think that the situation with ASB is largely acceptable and that armor is just that bad?

Seriously?!

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#511 - 2012-09-10 03:44:55 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
So you're perfectly happy trading one "must-fit" for another "must-fit" instead of introducing actual variety to the game? Ships like the Myrm are better off fitting a T2 mod/T1 rig ASB fit than with a deadspace mod/T2 rigged triple deadspace rep. Do you honestly think that the situation with ASB is largely acceptable and that armor is just that bad?

Seriously?!

-Liang


Yes, active armor is bad (not just the mods, but the rig penalties too) - especially compared to the ASB. But it was bad BEFORE ASBs. Shield and armor buffer Myrms and Brutix would ignore the active armor bonus already (though there were and still are some viable fits in very limited circumstances). ASBs just highlight the problem - they didnt make the problem. And there are still situations where shield and armor buffer will be preferable to ASB fits.

Before, it was small gang = buffer and large gange = buffer.

Now, it is small gang = ASB and large gang = buffer.

That says MORE variety to me, not less.

Look, we have beat this horse. Neither of us will convince the other. We both agree some changes need to be made, and some changes are (allegedly) in the pipe. Let's just agree to disagree and wait and see how the changes turn out. Big smile

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#512 - 2012-09-10 03:47:13 UTC
Meh, I used to active armor fit all the time. Now I feel compelled to fly shields all the time.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
NickyYo
modro
The Initiative.
#513 - 2012-10-13 18:15:25 UTC
I use the ASB and i feel bad for using it..

All of us shield tankers know what i mean, we all know its GOD MODE
I agree with the op, there is no challange for me when i use this, and i have to use it to compete with other shield tankers who i may fight...

..
Flurk Hellbron
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#514 - 2012-10-14 01:44:03 UTC
Simple solution, put it on each off ur own ships.................. tada!
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#515 - 2012-10-14 02:01:10 UTC
Ya'll realize that the number of reps, as it stands now, are being cut by 30% on December 4th? CCP Fozzie also indicated that they are looking at buffing armor, possibly via heat. Easy on the pitchforks.
Pipa Porto
#516 - 2012-10-14 04:38:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
Ya'll realize that the number of reps, as it stands now, are being cut by 30% on December 4th? CCP Fozzie also indicated that they are looking at buffing armor, possibly via heat. Easy on the pitchforks.


#512Posted: 2012.09.10 03:47

#513Posted: 2012.10.13 18:15


NickyYo the necro.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Wardeneo
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#517 - 2012-10-25 12:19:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Wardeneo
Freezehunter wrote:
Cameron Cahill wrote:
So let me get this straight.

You're pissed at loosing a shitfit bhaal to a well tanked rattlesnake while flying solo.

On sisi.

I have some advice you should follow friend, before you start commenting on the state of mods in eve:

1) Grow some balls and fight on tranq
2) Learn to fit ships.
3) Don't go crying to CCP if you loose a fight. It won't work and just makes you look pathetic.
4) Don't fly what you cant afford to loose (emotionally as well as financially)


How about you shove your advice up your ass?

Judging by your killboard all you do is fly in drake swarm fleets.


Eve ******* sucks compared to how it was in 2007 I swear, WAY more fun and player skill oriented back then.


+1 - epic reply! - /me hates drake blobs n 2bh anyone who says drakes arnt that common in eve pop needs to check se stats - iota they hold the no1 spot for most kills in eve ^^

Also asb's are overpowered - n I'd like to see 1 per ship BUT what I want more is ancillary armour reppers and XML reppers that bs's can fit and a mod similar to shield boost amplifiers but for armour reppers

HOWEVER they guy you quoted does have a point; it's an epic rage for a sisi loss ^^



Freezehunter wrote:
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Do it on TQ and maybe we'll care about how average you are at PvP.


By the way, you all got trolled, ASB is just fine.

Would be cool to limit it to one per ship like in ATX though.



Ohh that old chestnut eh? - I believe u - thousands wouldn't lol....

-Wardeneo-
Freundliches Feuer
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#518 - 2012-10-25 13:26:30 UTC
Why is this thread still going?

Adapt or Die.

Quit cryin.
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#519 - 2012-10-25 14:29:48 UTC
Flurk Hellbron wrote:
Simple solution, put it on each off ur own ships.................. tada!


And this folks, is how games go to ****.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#520 - 2012-11-02 20:07:08 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
Ya'll realize that the number of reps, as it stands now, are being cut by 30% on December 4th? CCP Fozzie also indicated that they are looking at buffing armor, possibly via heat. Easy on the pitchforks.



The problem I have with heat is the mechanic it self and related skills where you don't have the choice but to train them completely if you want somehow to be competitive, it's not just another fake skill to learn like rah, it's really something taking a good chunk of your training time to use it.
Will it be worthy?-sure, with all 5's....make it even more difficult for noobs and low skill players, it's obviously the ood way to go in a game where you already spend almost one hear commiting to silly trainings just to be other thing than meat canon or and older player alt.

For the meanwhile I'll still be using asb's ... awesome bad ideas are somehow bad.

brb