Test Server Feedback

Not empty quoting.

With the important caveat that I am not a capital pilot:

How hard would it be to let cap pilots assign keyword tags to selected items, and then apply permissions by keyword? This doesn't cover all the bases (for instance, it is nice to allow miners to deposit ore into bays they can't take anything from), but it covers most of the concerns and it's far more flexible than containers or divisions.

Tag your pimp mods "refit" and give no-one permission; tag your rifters and dictors "fleet" and allow fleet members to access anything tagged "fleet"; etc. If you allowed more than one tag per item, you could even have overlapping permissions.

I'm not saying you don't play. I'm just pointing out when changes like this come around, it's the kind of design elements that are obvious when you play the game, from that perspective. I'm not trashing you, I'm just pointing out the *grab our hair and pull* reaction you get sometimes from the community.

Please do not remove the categories from the hangar, as they are often used for sorting items in space (since you cant just put as many containers in the ship as you want).
My opinion on this:

- Categories are good, keep them, BUT remove the corporation access roles from them.
-instead implement a function to set up you own rules for each category.
( Every category has its own checkboxes to allow "[x] fleet usage" and "[x] corp usage" )
- The fleet hangar categories are super important for
a) miners (small scale) - they use it for sorting the private stuff of all the fleet members, who minded how much and so on
b) capital pilots - for example transport: sort private and other stuff in different categories, without these it gets difficult to distinguish your stuff from others stuff.
c) super cap pilots - they sort their stuff in different categories since station containers are not possible and they cant dock to stations for sorting it. If you want fleet access with only one hangar, the fleet can take all your private stuff too!
- Super important: Make the hangar scan- and droppable, since it is a 100% safe location for all the expensive stuff now.
Most people in high sec use the orca for safe hauling of blueprints, faction stuff, technetium and so on. You cant scan it, you cant loot it. Easiest hauling ever.
Scannable fleet hangars make hauling / trading a lot more interesting for both sides, the hauler and a potentially pirate.
Also makes capital drops better, as super caps transport all the shiny stuff with them (they cant dock, you remember?).

Please do not mess up or remove already working things, just make them better!!!

One last idea: Audit containers can lock items and you can mark and unlock a selection of them.
Is this possible for fleet hangars? So the cap pilot can lock certain items (nobody outside can take it) and unlock them later? Would be interesting to use this!

Thank you for taking the time to provide your reasoning. I think that everyone does agree that the corporate hangar system is very unwieldy and unnecessarily confusing, however there are two main issues that come up: the need for efficient organization in these large spaces, and the need for granularity of access control.

The currently proposed system leaves capital pilots unable to efficiently organize the modules in their rather large storage spaces. Containers are an unwieldy and as has been stated currently unusable method of achieving this- that someone could simply take the container complicates things even more. In fact, under the newly proposed system there would be *no* effective way to organize. While it may seem that the inventory system allows for this, it's unfortunately inadequate in high-pressure situations such as an incoming doomsday hit or needing to refit from a buffer fit to a triage fit in pantheon tactics. The Corporate Hangar system's divisions however do allow this effectively and efficiently.

The second issue of access control is rather important as cap sized modules have to be stored in the Hangars due to their size. While their size may be somewhat of a deterrent to theft, it would still be possible for fleet or corp members to remove these vital modules under the proposed system. The ability to store these high value modules in a division inaccessible- or at least only accessible if the pilot wishes- by others is a necessity for capital ship pilots.

Due to the need to store the large modules and the need to quickly refit as necessary, many capital pilots store their modules in the various divisions provided by the Corporate Hangar system. Having the only option for allowing fleet/corp members to grab a ship from the SMB or grab a necessary module out of the Hangar be one in the same *and* providing those members with free reign over the high value modules will mean that users will be at least hesitant to even allow access and at worst will simply never allow the access.

So while many celebrate being freed from the confusing ties to corporate roles, we simply cannot accept the currently proposed system.

A system that would both maintain the functionality necessary for capital pilots and would free the Hangar system from the ties to corporate roles would be to have several divisions similar to the Corporate System, but with the control options of your proposed system. Have these divisions access be controlled individually- NOT tied to the SMB access, NOT tied to eachother's access, and definitely NOT tied to corporate roles. It may seem at first glance that such a system would just be recreating the Corporate Hangar system and would lack elegance, but it would both free users from the abysmal Corporate Hangar system *and* maintain the functions necessary for capital pilots to even use a new system and not simply fall into never allowing access (which would mean a lot more wasted effort on your part if your users were to not even use the system)

I'm not sure how much you use your corp hangars, but for someone who does, this is a really big nerf. IF you have to remove the current functionality, make sure you replace it with something comparable - having a decent number of "hangar"s while being able to set access would be great.

Something that's been working for years, albeit with a few kinks here and there "IT HAD TO GO"? I suggest you listen less to your in-house guys and instead listen to the players. We love the corp hangar, we need the corp hangar.

Thanks for braving the forums. So, I'm no supercap pilot, but even capital and subcap pilots really benefited from this method of personal organization in w-space. Not only did it let you become a walking sorting facility for loot or a source of extra ammo for those prolonged fights or what have you, but when you weren't in combat, you had a better method for organizing your own things than what POSes give you, which is:

a) Put everything in containers, label the containers, and every time you want to access something, get in a ship with a big cargo hold and access the containers/anchor it in space.

b) Put things in the cargo hold of a ship. Never let that ship out of the force field.

c) Have your own POS.

Having a ship with its own CHA gave you all the convenience of having your own POS in terms of item storage without having to have your own POS. The general fleet hangar downgrades this to having an extra-large cargo hold that other people can access, too.

Maybe the future-POSes are going to address the long-term storage aspects, but even if they do, that's a long ways down the line and it still doesn't help cap pilots who need to change fittings quickly or find their extra fuel and quick and so on. After my experiences trying to offload loot into a CHA with multiple other people accessing it at the same time, I cannot assume that any search function or filtering of items in the inventory will be fast enough for OH GOD OH GOD FIT FOR CAP NOW NOW NOW. Maybe it will be soon, but right now...not quite.

See, that was your first mistake.


This is the most ineffectual and clueless CSM for years




Obviously no members of the CSM fly Supers either.

This. Another example of CCP forging ahead with a badly thought out ideas without an option to revert. Awesome.